Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Desiderya]

Awesome for Gallente RPers, perhaps. I think all but 2 or 3 Caldari RPers would quit.

Orly.

When you need a decision to be made, don't ask yourself, what would you do. Ask, what your character would do.

That's kinda the problem Pieter described, isn't it? It's what makes it particularily hard for 'loyalist characters' to follow changing OOC interests of the player.
My personal, as a player, loyality to a given faction is far smaller than that of my character. After all I want to play something I consider entertaining and fun - this is bound to switch much easier than life-long loyalities of a character brought up in that system.  She wouldn't jump ship once the ride gets bumpy.



Re: "Raata 2.0"
I viewed it as Gesakaarin depictured. Typical ultranationalist dictator rhetoric. I do not see the megacorporations giving up sovereignity to flock to this particular cause.

[Myyona]

And what is the Federation doing? Their enemies are in social disorder, financial crisis and are lacking leadership while the Federation score major positive marks in those fields. Add to that a military that has performed flawless in the recent years, this stalemate feels fake.

On the other hand, Ishukone is likely a complete sellout. Which is supposed to give support for Heth when discovered.

[Desiderya]

Add to that a military that has performed flawless in the recent years, this stalemate feels fake.

I think your perception of flawless is not very correct, given that there have been some minor setbacks on the federal records. Serpentis glassing a city, that news article about low quality and morale in the armed forces, the drug thing. They've got their setbacks as well in that regard.

[Myyona]

Ok, but minor setbacks are no excuse for not steamrolling your opposition when the advantage is clearly in your favor.

[Desiderya]

Personally I'd think the threat of being steamrolled would be a very unifying cause.

[Myyona]

So why are we having this talk about the high likelihood of a Caldari civil war when the threat of being steamrolled by the Federation is already present?

[Lithium Flower]

But if they go the other route and turn it into some Megacorp evil Empire then... :S

Why it should be "evil" Empire, not just simple Empire? Star wars much?

It's just that Heth never really could get the Megas to dismantle their corporate armies so I'm not sure how it would even work to create a neo-Raata Empire -- unless it's going to be a DT "Event".

That's what really can cause Caldari "uprising", since commoners won't go against Heth. Corporate armies that are being dismantled? Easy!
As I see how it could work: if Heth makes new police force, based on Provists and TD, and simple declares obsolete "old" corporate armies, asking them to either join police, or put arms down. Some of them join, some of them put arms down, and some of them rebel, forming "new CEP", instead of old CEP, whose CEOs was bribed or replaced by Provists. How it can be done "mechanically"? Simple, half of existing corporate army station with mission agents change owner to "new police". Effect of "rebelling" displayed in standings between them. What events can be made? A couple of stations can "rebel" against change, so lots of peoples fight for station, which side wins, recieves the station (and then comes Grid with his fleet and gives station to rebels  ) But it is just my speculation, lets see what CCP will do about it 

[BloodBird]

So why are we having this talk about the high likelihood of a Caldari civil war when the threat of being steamrolled by the Federation is already present?

The problem is that Heth is convinced that the "good of the State" = destruction of the Federation. Alternatively, he's basically out after power and the railing on the Union is his own excuse. Either of these now seem to require unifying all of the State behind his provists in more ways then a corporate Confederation, more along the lines of an Empire with himself as emperor. The CEP is ofc highly unhappy about this or should be. This is likely going to start a civil war - even if both know that the Federation in all likelihood would exploit this in some way.

It makes no sense for the Union to do so NOW - before anything has had a chance to happen. If they bother to get involved in any way that require armed warships it will be to charge in at the height of the internal struggle during, or maybe after, the worst of the fighting - letting the State weaken itself as much as possible before doing so.

Or maybe they decide to take the high-road, bask in good PR while 'staying true to their agreement with CONCORD' - ergo "do not invade other members" - or for all we know, use this as an excuse to pass a vote to CONCORD to stop the CEWPA war between State and Federation - even more good PR "We are the bringers of peace", "we never asked for this" and so on. There is plenty that the Fed could do to get involved and much that can roll in their benefit, in many ways - but invading now or getting involved before the Caldari has had a change to actually implode would not be a good idea in any case.

[BloodBird]

But if they go the other route and turn it into some Megacorp evil Empire then... :S

Why it should be "evil" Empire, not just simple Empire? Star wars much?

To nit-pick, the Empire itself was not technically 'evil' - it's leadership was. One of the things I enjoy about the SW extended universe is the separation between Sith and Empire so that both are no longer confused as the same thing.

Incidentally, a "Caldari Empire" would not be of any more questionable morality than the State already is even with Heth in charge of either - it would simply be the Caldari unified under a singular power as opposed to an amalgamation of 8 separate powers ruling together.

Ofc, the whole "thing" with what the Caldari currently is will be lost, and I just can't foresee CCP pissing on all their Pro-Caldari players and their PF like that, regardless of who claims otherwise among the player-base. It would make very little sense. Unless ofc, they intend to do a major re-vamp of PF and turn all the different factions into something different, and I see no such development in either the Federation or the Empire. *Maybe* there will be a radical change in the Republic, but then continuing to call it that has been questionable IC for a long time already. In short, so far we have the delusions of an NPC of questionable mental health who is desperate to remain in power and to strike down his hated enemies. NOTHING MORE indicates anything like what is detailed in here will happen, so the odds are terribly low even from the get-go.

On the other hand, if CCP officially announces their change-intentions tomorrow and that stuff like this WILL happen, I will go eat my own words, and I will like it, regardless of how bitter it will be.

[Hamish Grayson]

Well, if the State goes down the Roman path to crowning an emperor it sort of brings up a new question.

Who gets to be Hannibal?  When will the barbarians sack Rome?

Timeline in the wrong direction.  Hannibal and the Punic Wars were prior to Sulla and Caesar.

<3

[Aria Jenneth]

A few thoughts.

1. The State is not even nominally a democracy, and its equivalent of patricians and plebians is strictly informal (more like plutocrats and everybody else).

2. The State has no evident fear or hatred of kings, which was instrumental in getting Caesar killed. Tibus Heth basically already has imperial powers-- which appear to be on the wane along with his health and sanity.

3. You'd need someone with "authority" equivalent to Heth's to rise up in his place. There is no one like that on the present stage. Admittedly, Octavian didn't have that at the time, but we don't even have a Mark Antony.

4. The Caldari tend to pull together in a crisis, not apart, especially in the face of war with a foreign power and ESPECIALLY the Gallente. In order for a Caldari civil war to go hot, their borders would need to be secure.

5. That said, the Caldari have had at least one empire before-- the Raata. The resemblance to imperial Rome, however, is ... ambiguous. It may have had more in common with imperial China. If the megacorporations were to go to war with one another, become militarized and less profit-driven, and thus even more feudal than they already are, I could see the eventual victor (after, basically, a "warring states period") establishing something of that sort.

This is never going to happen while the Caldari have an active external foe to make common cause about. The furthest it is likely to go is deadly bickering among the upper echelons, possibly culminating in something like a second Morning of Reason.

[Desiderya]

So why are we having this talk about the high likelihood of a Caldari civil war when the threat of being steamrolled by the Federation is already present?

Because at the moment there is no threat of being steamrolled.
1) The Federation is not able to do that*.
2) CONCORD would likely intervene.
3) See 1)



*I know, it generates strong opinions, but a war against the Caldari on sovereign territory would be very slow, costly and by no means a guaranteed win. Once the first easy successes have been made, very likely not something the federation's public would want to endure. If the federation would attempt to use the current, even escalated, internal conflict in the State to actively go to a full-out war you can be sure that this'll have all the megacorporations and the CPD to put their differences aside for now - one way or the other.
That aside it's not that the Caldari Navy, not even counting the megacorporate security branches, is incapable of defending the borders. I mean, hey, having that highly militarized system should have some benefits, else it'd be a total joke, no?

[Katrina Oniseki]

That said, maybe they should go for it and just have the CPD and the Templis Dragonaurs become a new pirate/terrorist subfaction aligned against the State forever waxing lyrical about recapturing glories past. Then you can have the corporate State, the quasi anarchist Gurista and the ultra-nationalist Templis all united in a triumvirate of hate and violence against each other.

New outlaw faction? Now that would be sweet.

[Alain Colcer]

Not sure, but i think all these developments are happening to set the stage for DUST514.

You need some sort of ultra-radical merc group present in all 4 factions in order to provide the chaotic evil vs lawful good opposites.

Tibus Heth may die, Mentas Blaque could defect, Karin Midular finally dies and Shakor has to deal with the backlash, and last but not least something puts Jamyl in a very tight spot.

The empires are still at war and fighting tooth and nail, but their "inner" conflicts freezes any large scale effort to the point all chips are put on "loyalist" capsuleers, and since we are sooooo predicatable (pun intended) anything can happen from then on.

[Katrina Oniseki]

Because at the moment there is no threat of being steamrolled.
1) The Federation is not able to do that*.
2) CONCORD would likely intervene.
3) See 1)



*I know, it generates strong opinions, but a war against the Caldari on sovereign territory would be very slow, costly and by no means a guaranteed win. Once the first easy successes have been made, very likely not something the federation's public would want to endure. If the federation would attempt to use the current, even escalated, internal conflict in the State to actively go to a full-out war you can be sure that this'll have all the megacorporations and the CPD to put their differences aside for now - one way or the other.
That aside it's not that the Caldari Navy, not even counting the megacorporate security branches, is incapable of defending the borders. I mean, hey, having that highly militarized system should have some benefits, else it'd be a total joke, no?

Worth noting as well that "The Citadel" is named so for a reason. The Caldari set it up in such a way that the State is highly defensible. I'm not sure how or if this is reflected ingame, but so it has been said. Perhaps it has a strategically ingenious stargate network arrangement allowing for optimal deployment, or maybe it has some extra built in defenses, or maybe there's just a lot of fleets at shipyards packed inside.

Who knows, but it's clearly stated (and this is the ONLY region ingame that has a description of this tone) that The Citadel is a fortress region, explicitly designed to resist invasion.

Acting as both an ideological fort as well as a physical impediment to invasion, the Citadel is among the most well fortified regions in the cluster. Despite their penchant for squabbling and competing with each other, nearly every Caldari corporation keeps a presence here, all working together to diligently defend their home. After having been ejected from one homeland, the Caldari are not about to suffer such a fate again. The Citadel stands as proud testament to that resolve.