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Author Topic: Problem with Pony Planet?  (Read 4826 times)

Seriphyn

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Problem with Pony Planet?
« on: 08 Apr 2013, 22:04 »

So, I've been successfully 'baited' into speaking about this Elusenia project, formerly D'estinia, after a particularly meta-comment and a few others...let me list out the literary objectives of the project.

- Anti-grimdark; capsuleers have all this money and power, so why don't they put it towards good, instead? While this has been done before, Elusenia differs in that it is seeking to be a political entity that actively engages with society, rather than reject it in the form of refuges that seem more popular amongst RPers.
- Gallente without Federation; one of the distinct advantages of the Gallente faction is that loyalty or association with the Federation is not required. Elusenia is definitely not Federation, but is definitely Gallentean. It explores how democracy (in all its facets, not just political) can be applied when you have a money and infrastructure to support it. There's some FP articles I'm taking direct inspiration from.
- Planetary societies having precedence over space societies; this is an important one, I think. Given how EVE works as a game, we see things 'top-down', but the idea is that the empires are extensions of the planetary societies and not the other way around (exception for the Caldari perhaps).
- Neutrality and ideological impartiality; how will a city-state with obvious Gallentean origins but ostensibly non-Federal leanings interact with the other entities in New Eden? Caldari loyalists? Amarr holders? Minmatar freedom fighters? It's already been explored with at least one Caldari loyalist (Scherezad), and I'm looking forward to engaging with others on it.

I've been getting a bit of IC flak (fine) with the above, but also OOC flak and meta IC-OOC stuff too (not fine), such as the Pony Planet comment. I have to pose the question; what's the issue? It's an honest attempt at some worldbuilding, and while I understand the pretentiousness of it, all RP is going to be pretentious in some form or another. Heck, it IS Gallentean after all, so the pretentiousness fits in-character, really. In actuality, the scale of it is meant to be no more of a big deal than an Amarr Holder's domain, and I know plenty of people RP that. I'm surprised no one called them out on having an ultra-rich little republic designed to be aiding poor communities...obvious profligacy, maybe even hypocrisy.

But profligacy is sort of the point.
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Pieter Tuulinen

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Re: Problem with Pony Planet?
« Reply #1 on: 09 Apr 2013, 00:52 »

OOC - Go for it! Yay - Worldbuilding!

IC: It's a vanity project for a capsuleer already famous for his vanity. I'm a pragmatic Caldari who already has reasons not to like Seriphyn. Let the mockery commence.

I don't know who coined Pony Planet, but I use it IC because of the 'giving my daughter a sovreign state' angle of it.
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Katrina Oniseki

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Re: Problem with Pony Planet?
« Reply #2 on: 09 Apr 2013, 04:55 »

IC: Anything that keeps Seriphyn far away from her makes Katrina happy.

OOC: It doesn't involve me. I have no comment on it.

Anslol

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Re: Problem with Pony Planet?
« Reply #3 on: 09 Apr 2013, 06:34 »

OOC: You're doing more than most people and putting a lot of careful effort into it. Go forth and be merry (just don't god mod).

IC: Neat. Freedom of choice and action. Don't know about having a child leader but, hey. Good luck, call if you need help men.

The pony planet thing is kind of weird though. The child might be the figure head, but it isn't giving an entire Empire to a child. This is like saying Larsus Solidor from FF12 was given the Archadian Empire by Basch after his brother Vayne died as a 'pony.' To me, it sort of makes sense in a way, as it seems to be a Pathos methodology of appeal to elicit admiration, care, and loyalty.

If I had to guess, it would seem the child had the idea, led the people to a new, small, out of the way district (not even a planet), and built up a peaceful city-state. The people see this, amazed by this child's ability and know how, and follow her and protect her as their Queen. Thus the city-state prospers. Also, after what happened during the initial Incursions, it's good to see Seri doing SOMETHING. I mean granted I don't see everything of course, and I don't know all that happens with him (because honestly, I don't get this vanity thing. Seri doesn't seem vain to Anslo, just odd at times), but it's good to see what he's doing.

To me, a small city-state isn't really egotistical. It's cooler and more approachable than a catalog of space sicknesses (at least until I hammer out the details and you are all infected with autotrophic parasitic diatoms MUAHAHAHA). Gods speed \o/.
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Problem with Pony Planet?
« Reply #4 on: 09 Apr 2013, 07:06 »

Haters are gonna...

From what I have seen, Seri is not a very well liked character ICly. Not totally sure why. He is one of the few that can be quite full of sarcasm about his own faction too.
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Pieter Tuulinen

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Re: Problem with Pony Planet?
« Reply #5 on: 09 Apr 2013, 07:11 »

Well now, I would say there is a big difference between a child inheriting her brother's kingdom by way of lawful inheritance than being appointed Princess by her Dad after he pays to build it from scratch.

As for Seriphyn's vanity - it's tied to his arrogance, isn't it? The two besetting flaws of the character? I'd be pretty intrested in hearing from Seri himself on this, because it was always my assumption that he was deliberately playing his char that way.

Again. Don't have a single issue with Seriphyn OOCly. This is all built off IC stuffies - so I'd be very interested in knowing if I'm wrong.

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Anslol

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Re: Problem with Pony Planet?
« Reply #6 on: 09 Apr 2013, 07:15 »

I've honestly never seen Seri ICly as arrogant or vain. Long winded maybe, but not arrogant or vain.

Now if he named his empire Seriphynia....well...

EDIT: Also, Larsus was a boy....I think?...Or have I seriously SERIOUSLY missed something.
« Last Edit: 09 Apr 2013, 07:18 by Anslol »
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Pieter Tuulinen

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Re: Problem with Pony Planet?
« Reply #7 on: 09 Apr 2013, 07:18 »

I've honestly never seen Seri ICly as arrogant or vain. Long winded maybe, but not arrogant or vain.

Now if he named his empire Seriphynia....well...

Interesting. Best let Seriphyn shed some light on this, I think.
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Morwen Lagann

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Re: Problem with Pony Planet?
« Reply #8 on: 09 Apr 2013, 08:18 »

To be fair, a lot of the flak Seriphyn gets IC is derived and left over from older behavioral traits. He's not well-liked IC, but he earned it over time.

He was a terrible womanizer (emphasis on the terrible :p), got pissy - often in public - about "space lesbians", was frequently insensitive towards others in many ways, and was generally abrasive and unlikable even in small settings. (Ego was a pretty big problem too, but that's common for a lot of capsuleers.)

He's changed quite dramatically since the Sansha events, but some of the old behaviors still bleed through occasionally, and they -do- still grate on people sometimes, both those who knew him "back then" and those who only met him recently.

A good example is from last night's thing that Schere put on (which was awesome fun, by the way) - I was talking with Rhi and Seri about Seri's attitude and behavior during the event, and summed it up like this:

Quote
[ 2013.04.09 03:23:59 ] Morwen Lagann > Seri has a habit, IC, of coming off as uninterested/dismissive of most things that aren't strictly practical or serving of a purpose. Not something to get up in arms over IC, or OOC.

It's an interesting character flaw even if it has a tendency to cause friction IC. It crops up all over the place, and because I have very few reasons to interact with Seri IC, I end up just getting to watch the potential trainwrecks that may or may not result from the reactions other people have to it. Which, of course, is entertaining enough in its own right, but that's just human nature on my part. Nobody can resist a trainwreck. Damn nosy rubber-neckers that we are. :lol:
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Morwen's Law:
1) The number of capsuleer women who are bisexual is greater than the number who are lesbian.
2) Most of the former group appear lesbian due to a lack of suitable male partners to go around.
3) The lack of suitable male partners can be summed up in most cases thusly: interested, worth the air they breathe, available; pick two.

Silas Vitalia

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Re: Problem with Pony Planet?
« Reply #9 on: 09 Apr 2013, 08:23 »

An entire planet-sized vanity project?

Silas are enamored.   :lol:

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Pieter Tuulinen

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Re: Problem with Pony Planet?
« Reply #10 on: 09 Apr 2013, 08:29 »

Apparently it's not an entire planet, so the phrase "Pony Planet' is incorrect. I suppose "Pony Principality" is better.
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Problem with Pony Planet?
« Reply #11 on: 09 Apr 2013, 08:49 »

I don't get it either.

I think it's more of a "politically incorrect" thing.
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Pieter Tuulinen

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Re: Problem with Pony Planet?
« Reply #12 on: 09 Apr 2013, 08:56 »

To be honest I kind of feel like I've been baited in the thread into having a bigger problem with it than I probably should, solely due to P's dislike of Seri. In practice, this is a Jaiji issue, in Jaiji space and it really ought to be exposed to the marketplace of ideas where it will either succeed or die stillborn.
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Anslol

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Re: Problem with Pony Planet?
« Reply #13 on: 09 Apr 2013, 09:07 »

Who you calling Jaiji you filthy fascist?  :evil:
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Seriphyn

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Re: Problem with Pony Planet?
« Reply #14 on: 09 Apr 2013, 09:09 »

Well, alright, I might as well share some facets of Seriphyn's behaviour, building on Morwen's points.

I am eternally grateful to CCP for doing the Sansha Heavenbound thing on Seriphyn, as it ultimately turned him into his own character, far removed from myself (though Seriphyn's exploration of classical liberalism in a decidedly non-liberal universe has had a scary influence on my own RL beliefs). As a result of those events, Seriphyn has become somewhat of a Byronic Hero. I never consciously pushed him in this direction, but at some point towards the backend of last year, I read the page and was like "Welp, that's Seriphyn".

A lot of it also comes down to perspectives and contexts. For example, Anslo has said in this thread he does not see Seriphyn as arrogant and vain, and equally Lyn does not understand the dislike either. Interestingly, on Lyn's point, Seri's venomous sarcasm about the Federation fits his Byronic trait (the 'jaded and world-weary' bit), regarding the interplay of cynicism and the pursuit of ideals. Seri sees his own beliefs as superior to all others, and it happens these beliefs fit with the Gallenteans (he did grow up as a Gallentean after all, and he certainly didn't invent his own beliefs). However, he does not see the Federation as contingent with being Gallentean at all.

Anyway, some characters will see Seriphyn negatively, others will not. Scherezad has been with Seriphyn for over a year, and one does certainly does not RP with a 2D character for that long. Seriphyn has been said to have an "infectious aura", which fits the 'charismatic' element of a Byronic hero. But in the Summit circle, Seriphyn is disliked, for a set of interconnected reasons. The first is my patent refusal to RP Seriphyn as a 'popularity sellout' (not accusing anyone of being that, that's just how I see it for Seri). For example, the Scherezad theatre event yesterday was attended by numerous other characters. I could have RPed Seriphyn as someone who thoroughly and outwardly enjoyed it for the purposes of scoring points with the other characters. But that would be out-of-character for Seriphyn. He saw it as a bunch of pretentious ponce (as Morwen has elaborated on) that self-aggrandized the indigenous culture with a bunch of historical wankery. This fits in with the 'rebellious' and 'disrespect for privilege' tropes of a Byronic Hero. There is no way I would have RPed Seriphyn as anything else in that event. As an aside, Seriphyn's respect for Caldari culture comes from their hard work and efficiency, not "bullshit tradition".

However, it's not "edgy for the sake of edginess". He's with his girlfriend, Scherezad, and thus his reactions were tempered and modulated because of her presence. Ultimately, he caved in and ended up enjoying it, because I felt that the most organic development of an individual having to sit and watch something for several hours. It's not a case of 'Oh this is wankery look at me saying it's wankery!'. But some people are more interested in the 'getting along' RP and, eh, well, fine. That RP, I feel, has an entirely different purpose to the sort of RP I pursue. The 'getting along' RP is motivated by desiring OOC approval, which again is completely fine. When Seri rejects the clique and all that, this has an OOC effect as well, because I feel some people take it personally OOC as well. I don't believe in the IC/OOC divide being 100% solid; that's just human nature. I don't really hold anyone in contempt for bleedovers.

So, a lot of the dislike to Seri I find originates from the "getting along" semi-casual RP bloc. I've had one character message Seri saying that she sees Seriphyn as "objectively a better human being than the majority of the people in the Summit". And I call the "getting along" bloc as semi-casual, but even relatively casual RPers like Seriphyn. And this says nothing about when Seriphyn RPs with Gallente loyalists, where he is universally liked.

Shit, this is a really disjointed post, but then again, I like it that way.
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