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[Anslol]

The way you resolve a chat room RP scenario is the same way you do a table top. You have your dice, you have your sheets, stats, whatever. If you REALLY want to get that into it, there are many, many ways. I can't go out and violence your ship because, solo, I'd get myself owned. Anslo is not that great at solo pvp, and there's a good reason for it in his background. He's very VERY good at violencing people on the ground. Go ahead and say I shouldn't play or RP in Eve then and say I should find another game, I frankly don't care. I don't impose Anslo's history and abilities on others without consent. And when we all consent, it ends up being a great time.

He doesn't just run around flaunting his arms about. He saves his abilities for when the situation is just absolute shit. The same should go for others who are modded as well. Don't flaunt it, use it in the worst case scenario. And when you DO have to use it, give yourself a statistically equal chance of succeeding or failing given the situation and your mods (i.e. some big cyborg is not going to do so hot trying to save someone from an area that's electrically charged that could fry him like an pork chop).

I, the player, do enjoy PvPs, PvEs, anything in between, AND the great arcs players come up with in chat rooms. Eve will one day be the greatest sci fi simulator there is, in space and out of space. But until that time, I don't see why it's taboo to enjoy those potential scenarios and great player arcs in a chat room if that's what we're given. If you don't like it, it's fine, don't bother with it. But I don't think people that DO enjoy it should be looked down on as 'doin it wrong,' which is what this seems like to me.

@Gottii: I can has page number? That sounds interesting.

[Saede Riordan]

Question Anslol: Why would a capsuleer be put in a situation like that though? That's like an investment banker or mafia boss or top general slugging it out on the ground. Capsuleers are bigger then ground fights.

[Tiberious Thessalonia]

You are overreacting.  Take a few breaths.

I am not saying that you shouldn't play EVE or RP or whatever.  I am saying that I will not interact with your character in a violent way that doesn't take place in space.

And no, I refuse to make a character sheet with stats and dice and skills for Tib.  I refuse to participate in RP that does that.  If you want to violence Tib you are going to have to do it within the context of the game of EVE online, with the tools that EVE provides you.  EVE's chatrooms are, for me, for social PvP, which is where they belong.

[Anslol]

@Saede: Because some capsuleers have people in their lives that aren't immortal that they care about. Some still like fighting ground side. Some prefer to be there getting their hands dirty to ensure shit gets done right.

Not ever pilot is a mob boss or military hero or investment banker. Take a look at the Joker or Bane. They lead a good number of people, but they still joined the fight. They weren't aloof.

The point I'm trying to make is that no all capsuleers think of themselves as aloof uncaring gods that are above the baseline humans. In the end, they're humans too, just with extra copies of themselves. They can die just like anyone else. CONCORD pulls one plug, and good bye "god."

@Tibs; OK, I'm sorry, but I get touchy about this subject. I've been told 'ur doin it wrong' in the past, to which I promptly said 'sod off.' For Tibs, your decision makes perfect sense. One does not simply walk in and kill a high level Sansha capsuleer. It doesn't happen. To top that off, why would Tibs enter a situation like that as a high level figure of the Sansha? So to me, your background makes sense in respect to not being in a situation where someone could violence you outside a ship.

Hell it makes sense for anyone in a situation like that. If they simply say, 'i am a demi god, i have no need for etc etc etc,' then that's a perfectly valid reason. I'm just worried that people will start looking down at other RPers who decide they want to do something OUTSIDE of the egg to further their plot or just have some fun. I really would hate to see that happen

[Silas Vitalia]

Please don't think we are ganging up on you Anslo, this is just a discussion!

I'm reminded of Morpheus' line in 'The Matrix' where he says to Neo basically:

"Do you think how fast or strong you are has anything to do with how you operate in -this- world? "

This applies to capsuleers IMO.


I don't think anyone is saying urdoingitwrong, it's just that EVE has game mechanics in place to deal with non-consentual activities (pew pew, scheming, peer pressure), of which I base my RP around... it doesn't have a system yet for physical combat aside from he said/she said.  No one is stopping you from doing your thing, it just might be harder to find other people willing to participate.

[Anslol]

I can appreciate that Silas and I understand, but from what I've seen there are people in the community who do still enjoy that kind of RP as long as there's a balance. Anslo's been called on two or three times to assist, and each time he didn't flail around his uh....stuff to just autowin. No one wants that. To top that off, if he was ousted, I have no idea how people would react to him. Could be a major shit storm.

But again, it's all about balance. I believe that if you want to be crazy moded, there's nothing stopping you. Just don't god mod it. Otherwise, it's simply no fun for anyone.

[Tiberious Thessalonia]

Oddly enough, one of the things that bugs me most about all this is the idea that you can't, in these situations, godmod.  You certainly can in the rest of EVE.  I mean, in the rest of EVE, if I decided I wanted to kill Silas over and over, and I managed to get past the fact that she could surely kick my ass, and I managed to kill her and pod her over and over, I would get the evidence for this act, I would be doing it, and Silas would have exactly zero say in it.

I cannot do that in the type of RP you are espousing because there are no tools to deal with it, other than what amounts to a gentlemans agreement.

[Saede Riordan]

Oddly enough, one of the things that bugs me most about all this is the idea that you can't, in these situations, godmod.  You certainly can in the rest of EVE.  I mean, in the rest of EVE, if I decided I wanted to kill Silas over and over, and I managed to get past the fact that she could surely kick my ass, and I managed to kill her and pod her over and over, I would get the evidence for this act, I would be doing it, and Silas would have exactly zero say in it.

I cannot do that in the type of RP you are espousing because there are no tools to deal with it, other than what amounts to a gentlemans agreement.

Having a gentlemen's agreement can honestly open up some really interesting things. I tend to be much more open to letting things happen (especially bad things) if I have some say of it ahead of time.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

I want to imagine all of our resources, implants, and know-how are focused on 'spaceships' and related things.

I think the crucial point is that other peoples want to imagine and portray their characters in a way that conflicts with how you want to imagine capsuleers in general. I think that they are - as long as they are in the bounds of PF - entitled to play their characters as they like and that includes that they might have personal reasons to get augmentations that augment them physically.

Also, I'm not quite the fan of the oh so popular 'soft clone' thingy. Capsuleers should have their weaknesses, too, and CCP stated that they don't do weapons/fighting in CQ because a capsuleer could basically be killed (implying: permanently) with a spoon.

Anyway, I think one has to be careful not to slip into a 'you are doing it wrong' because someone portrays his/her capsuleer in a way that one doesn't want to imagine them. (P.S.: Regardless whether it's licentious use of soft clones or augmentations. (; )

[Anslol]

Well that agreement to me is acceptable. The people Anslo interact with have players that know how to RP and how to RP well. They aren't the kind to god mod. They keep the stories fresh and interesting, while giving good twists. It all depends on the people you RP scenarios with. Some people will god mod and simply..don't know how to really RP in that situation, while others know what to do and know their own characters limits. (i.e. Egger A is not going to be able to dodge a bullet they don't see coming because they are not Neo).

But it all comes down to taste. If it's your thing, cool. If it's not your thing, cool. As long as players who engage in that kind of RP aren't looked down upon, there's no reason there can't be a happy old balance between the two kinds of RP (in space vs chat/out of space)

[Silas Vitalia]

Right, I think consentual RP violencing works just fine.

Example, when Aldrith resubbed last year I suggested as a bit of a welcome back he should violence a bunch of my NPC peoples.  We worked out broad strokes ooc, and he did just that, fun for all.



Also Tibs don't say stuff like that, my spaceships blow up just like everyone elses, and I wished some of you people would shoot them more

[Gesakaarin]

I've never really felt the need to think too much about what awesome cybernetic augmentations my capsuleer has because at the end of the day if it isn't represented in-game then all that it seems to lead to in my mind is situations where as children one would say to another, "Okay, I shoot you with my pistol," Being retorted with, "Nuh-uh, I have an adamantium exo-skeleton that deflects all bullets!"

It just leads to pointless discussions about who wins because they supposedly have better fictional accoutrements. Then I also wonder sometimes if as a capsuleer you just wouldn't use a clone with say, cranial explosives or the like, so that even if you do meet a one man army of a cybernetic augmented capsuleer in the flesh you wouldn't just say, "Cool story" proceed to blow open your clone's head and just awake a new one somewhere else.

A capsuleer is like being able to play the best sort of villains right off the bat, you're typically extremely wealthy, have access to the most powerful weapons ever made in the cluster, and are immortal. Playing a capsuleer means in many respects you're already part of a very elite club, why even need all those personal cybernetics when you can already hypothetically level entire cities from orbit with your thoughts?

[Victoria Stecker]

As someone whose first RP character was a horific god-moding mary sue, and has since been largely reformed/retconned/etc, I can see both sides to this. There is a great deal of logic to saying that it doesn't make sense for capsuleers to be getting their hands dirty. And it's always distasteful when someone tries to god mode and set off a bomb in a bar.

On the other hand, EVE is a big universe. If we decide to fall too hard on the side of "you can't do it if the game doesn't let you," we miss out. I can think of one or two players off the top of my head that take that attitude, and I understand and accept it entirely, but I think I'd rather be able to walk into a bar and enjoy a drink with corpies, etc.

Then we go in the other direction - outside of flying ships, we are limited purely to text-based RP. That is simultaneously limiting and freeing. It means we can do literally whatever the fuck we want. It also means that there is no agreed upon way to resolve conflict - the purpose of dice rolling in RPG systems. We can't play D&D, so we're more like the kids on the playground yelling "Bang! You're dead!" "No I'm not, you missed!"

So for most people, the solution is to avoid conflict. Talk, dance, have a drink, argue, etc, but avoid any physical conflict. Makes perfect sense.

And for some people, we don't want that. We like conflict, we like to fight, and if we're using free-form, text-based RP, why the fuck not? It simply requires that things be consentual, and for more complex interactions will require OOC communication. One of the first fights Stecker got into could aptly be described as "Clash of the Godmoders," and thinking back on it now is both nostalgic and embarrassing. On the other hand, more recently (as in, only two years ago instead of three) she had a sparring match with Raxip, her genetic enhancement against his cybernetic. During the IC bout, we were chatting OOC about what each character was about to do to make sure we agreed and it made sense to both of us. I had a blast.

If you don't enjoy that, or don't think it's appropriate, or just don't want to be involved, that's fine. Feel free to look down on people who try to godmode you into a fight, etc.

Please avoid applying the same disdain to people who simply enjoy a good scrap.


[As an aside, some of the posts in this thread are pushing the "ur doin it rong" line. Please be mindful of that, even if it's what you truly believe.]

[Silas Vitalia]

This is not a discussion about RP violence and dice rolling etc, let's stick to how feasable and supported in game the concepts of these sorts of modifications are!

[Victoria Stecker]

We're working with a universe wherein I can control a spaceship with my mind and my consciousness and all associated memories will be transfered to a new body upon my death.

Unless there's something specifically saying that such modifications aren't available (I think Gotti mentioned something), I would have a hard time denying them. If you can have a brain interact with an entire ship, why not hook it up to any other machine?

Of course, if we follow that logic far enough, we can take the capsuleer and remove the body, leaving only the nervouse system and implants and replace the rest with the necessary nutrient feeds and waste removal. I haven't seen anything described like that, so there may be a limit, but capsule technology is far enough advanced it's hard to say that much of anything isn't possible.

IIRC, someone (Caldari CEO?) already uploaded his entire concsiousness into a computer system? So why couldn't you stick it in a robot?