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Ships in EVE have crews?  Really.

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Author Topic: Discussion: Capsuleers / Cyberization / Walking terminators  (Read 9077 times)

Mitara Newelle

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Also, imo, IF you're going to be super moded, you need to have some kind of negative side effect. For instance, electrical pulses could mess your implants up, infections could REALLY screw you over, or just a plain old shot to the head you can't avoid. If you take a 50 cal sniper and put it to someone's head, I don't care if you have the armor plating of a tank on you, no one is getting up from that.

I think I remember a scene when cyberknight Aldrith got wasted off of half a drink because he had so little organic body mass left. Could have been someone else though.

Yep, that was Aldy.
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Section 3) Shitposting. "The cluster would be a much better place if all Amarrians were set on fire"

Silas Vitalia

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If these modifications are installed on your clone, good luck ever, ever leaving your captain's quarters in any high or lowsec station. 

Security Chief: "Oh hey it's the one-man killing machine! *high five* Care to take a stroll on the station promenade? You -promise- you won't start punching through walls and zapping crowds of people? .... aww ok sure step on out!"

 
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Natalcya Katla

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I play two heavily modified characters myself. Ruby in particular is filled to the brim with upgrades. Not one of them is a combat upgrade, though. Some are survival mods (respiratory filters, improved blood oxygenation, immunological symbiote). Some are experience enhancement mods (sensory spectrum and sensitivity upgrades), some are utility or convenience mods (synthetic muscle grafts to prevent low-g atrophy, cybernetic eyestalks [they have a hundred uses, very practical!]) and some are purely cosmetic. Plus the actual capsuleer implants, of course.

Even though none of my characters are modded for personal combat, I don't find the idea of other capsuleers being such all that far-fetched. Capsuleers have a tendency to be wealthy, whimsical, egotistical and fond of expensive toys that shoot fire. Just the opportunity to prance around in some over-the-top death machine of a body would probably be enough of an incentive for quite a number of them to do so. Although my characters (and Katla in particular) will happily deride the silliness (as she perceives it) of capsuleers crossing the aforementioned flyboy/dirtling divide, the existence of the phenomenon as such makes perfect sense OOC.

After all, in our own world, Rome had an Emperor (Commodus) who used to fight in gladiator matches as a fucking hobby. (I have to wonder how heavily those matches were rigged, but still, it says something.) Stede Bonnet, a well-to-do Barbadian landowner, abruptly decided - in the best mid-life crisis ever - to become a pirate at approximately the age of forty. Stuff like this happens.

It's not doing it wrong, you just have to be prepared for people calling it silly IC.
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Ava Starfire > There is evil.
Ava Starfire > Outright evil.
Ruby Amatucci > Hello!

Ava Starfire

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Admittedly, I have had RP fights (2 of them, in fact) turn blech because of ECKSTENSIV SYBERNETTICK MODIFICKASHUNS, but overwhelmingly, it isnt an issue to me at all. Kala nailed it; I Play a physically unimpressive (but crafty!) sickly character. She just isnt made for fighting and shooting at things, the odd deer or whatever aside.

Doesnt mean I dont enjoy Out Of Pod arpees.
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Khloe

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Let's chat! While I contend there are plenty of examples of mildly to majorly weaponized / cyberized individuals in New Eden, I'll posit that generally these are not capsuleers we play as. We are highly specialized super-special genetic freaks who plug our brains into starships, controlling thousands of systems, etc etc.  I want to imagine all of our resources, implants, and know-how are focused on 'spaceships' and related things.  Lots of head implants, lots of command and control software, etc.  Not the whole other avenue of walking hand to hand death machines. I see an entirely 'different' avenue of cyberization for ground troops / assassins, etc.  who aren't having to deal with controlling spaceships. Thoughts?
I agree completely. I like that capsule pilots, despite their numerous advantages and demi-god-like status, are still vulnerable outside of their pod.
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Pieter Tuulinen

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Well, the way I try to handle this is to have started Pieter out as big and strong for a human but not terribly well trained or experienced. Along the way I have managed to acquire some better training, which (in about six months) might make him reasonably deadly with guns/hands.

I'm leery about modifying his clones too much, but did an RP scene with Ninavask to build in some stuff to mitigate tissue and bone damage, so that he can get into fights and not be a physical wreck all the time. This will kick in the next time I'm podded - but it's not guns for hands, super strength or anything.

As for his high level of physical conditioning, I usually RP him as sparring and working out regularly.

I'm hoping that if I ever elevate this to 'Special Snowflake' level, someone with a level head will take me aside and have a quiet word. You all have my permission to do so - in fact I'm asking you to please do so.

But there ought to be a continuum within the capsuleer community, or we'll all be the same.
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Nicoletta Mithra

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I agree completely. I like that capsule pilots, despite their numerous advantages and demi-god-like status, are still vulnerable outside of their pod.

Ireally think the bigger problem in regard to out of pod vulnerability is the use of 'soft clones'. I understand their value as protection against god-modding player kills, but honestly I don't see them as necessary. A smart capsuleer shouldn't get into the situation where he needs one anyway.
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Pieter Tuulinen

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Works in theory, but some of us don't play terribly cunning smarty-pants. Some of us play act-first-think-later idiots.
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Vincent Pryce

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IIRC, someone (Caldari CEO?) already uploaded his entire concsiousness into a computer system? So why couldn't you stick it in a robot?

Zainou CEO did it. He is in the Zainou mainframe to this date. I'm sure some lore wizard will whip you a link for it too. I'm @ school so cba.
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Katrina Oniseki

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http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Zainou_(NPC_corporation)
Quote
A biotech company founded by the eccentric Todo Kirkinen, the first man to have his mind transferred into a machine. Zainou has from its inception been at the forefront of bio-chemical and nano-mechanical research, its headquarters are described as a combination of a mad scientist's lab and a jungle zoo.

Vincent Pryce

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Vincent Pryce used SUMMON LORE WIZARD it's SUPER EFFECTIVE :bear:
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Sepherim

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There are two different issues discussed here: the "thing" and the "action". I'll adress them separately.

The "thing". As has been pointed out, almost all sci-fi out there speaks of the limits to the amount of cybertech a body can have: Shadowrun and Cyberpunk are good examples of this. Of course, not all sci-fi does, Eclipse Phase has no limit, for example, and technologically-wise it would be closer to EVE.

So, let's imagine there is a limit of "slots" available. In such a scenario, then we would have pod-pilots using their head slots and spine slots on pod piloting implants (as has already been said), but they'd have their legs, torso, and arms free for implants there. If they installed combat mods there, then they would be above baseliners in ressources and everything, but below those that use all their slots for combat/stealth (for example, no cyber-reflexes as those would go in the brain or spine). They'd be good, but not impressive. Old-seph fell into this cathegory, he once lost a leg (I think he lost an arm too, I'm not too sure) and had it replaced with a cybernetic one, which he'd have in every clone, just to remind him the price to pay for what happened in the other side; then again, the leg wasn't rigged for combat (Seph was more a philosopher/spy than a warrior), but it could have been.

The other side of the coin is a universe where there are no limits to implants. On this side of the coin, nothing prevents an egger from getting cutting edge military hardware for everything he wants. Sure, damned expensive, but we all agree eggers are very-very-very rich, so it wouldn't be a problem for many of them. This would probably make them way above average, but still wouldn't make them optimal: a DUST soldier would still be inmortal in combat (which an egger isn't), have more experience, train more hours in physical things, will have fought in more scenarios, etc. But probably, below DUST or CyberKnight levels, pod pilots would be top notch (say, second league's best team!).

The "action". The key that arises most discussion here is how you use it. But actually you're all mostly agreeing: no godmodding, consensual RP. Which are the rules of good RP in every level (I can't go into a bar owned by another player and "buy it with my overwhelming wealth" even if we pod pilots are very rich!). So, as long as those rules are maintained, I see no problem with pod pilots being physical.

Of course, going down to land battles is probably pointless unless a real good reason can be given (knowledge of key codes or such they alone know and don't want to share, for example); it'd be useless because, as has been pointed out, it would be of very little use, compared to the help he can bring from orbit. I don't think soldiers would be happy to see him in the frontlines, like WW2 soldiers wouldn't expect Patton to be with them in front of a Panzer. That's what liuteneants and other low-ranking officers are for.

But that doesn't mean an egger can't be physical in other situations. I'm going to use a character I hate because it extensively god-moddes, but take Starbuck from Battlestar Galactica: she gets into brawls, sneaks around and assaults bars (in a horribly bad scene, btw!), etc. Not all eggers are cold psycopaths, not all are intelligent philosophers, or astute politicians. They all share one trait: not going into the wetgrave. That's it.

Catillah, for example, is a nice guy in his way, but he wouldn't have a problem in getting into a bar fight if he was caught in one. Wouldn't start one, though, but wouldn't stand idly and say "no punches please", but would pick up a stool and hit someone in the head with it. He's not physically improved by cyber or nano, but he is a soldier, and has some training in hand-to-hand combat and guns from his time in the Navy; doesn't use them much (in fact, he needs to ask his ship's computer where is his gun, as can be read in the "Who am I" story in the forums), but he does know how to.

Is that wrong? I don't think so. As long as I say "I get up from behind the bench and start shooting against Bla Pilot" and he gets to do what he likes on his end, we both agree to consensually, don't god-mod, and, in general, have fun while doing it. And, of course, accept the consequences. Catillah was expelled from the Imperial Navy without honors, and this was one of the reasons (the least important one, though).
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Esna Pitoojee

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I will add to Sepherim's post that I think there are two fundamentally different dynamics being considered here, and part of the disagreement comes from the fact that people are envisioning vastly different things.

On the one hand, some people seem to be assuming heavily combat-modded people are going to be "walking fortresses", with field-grade armor and weapons concealed beneath their apparently fleshy exterior, replacing large portions of the human body's normal internal structures.

On the other, there are people who are assuming assorted enhancements, not replacing but augmenting or aiding a body that is still fundamentally human.

Those are far, far different views, and I think that difference is an important one.
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I like the implications of Gallentians being punched in the face by walking up to a Minmatar as they so freely use another person's culture as a fad.

Silas Vitalia

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I don't believe anyone has had any negative reactions to the odd replacement part here and there, and plenty of PF to support these things, such as Ardishapur's robotic hand, and if I recall one of the Matari ground commanders from Templar One had a robotic leg?

Anyway there's a world of difference between the odd enhancement (which could be useful for many situations), and full-on capsuleer Motoko Kusanagi ruining whole squads of people.

I imagine if a capsuleer was involved in an operation they'd be far more useful in an R2D2 capacity, plugging in to computers and security systems and using their expensive brains to do awful things to enemy systems.

 

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Silas Vitalia

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We could also take notes from most RP and other games in general - characters can typically only be a 'specialist' or a 'generalist'

Your wizard in D&D is unlikely to be much use with a sword or able to do many pushups, and your barbarian, while able to smash people's skulls in, might not be the most learned of men (or women).

Or they can do a little of everything, but nothing exceptional.

 
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