Long (didn't seem so at the time, but :text:) interaction between Havo and a Dust merc named Ryeon about things like Humanity and how it relates (or not) to podders and dusters, the changes made to Dust merc brains and other neat stuff about DUST 514 (which has PF I've never read), sparked by a comment by Foley and with a bit of interesting/amusing back-and-forth with Diana Kim on the side (<3 Diana Kim)
[spoiler] [ 2013.09.07 05:45:19 ] Foley Jones > .......so i was told to go see a mental doctor today after i grinded up a duster in my blender and forced a sniper to drink himself......
[ 2013.09.07 05:46:04 ] Havohej > Why do they bother with shrinks for you lot? You're meant to be entirely disposable assets anyway, aren't you?
[ 2013.09.07 05:46:26 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > Bodies, yes. Minds, a bit less. Hello, pilots.
[ 2013.09.07 05:46:37 ] Diana Kim > /emote bows * Ryeon-achur
[ 2013.09.07 05:47:13 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > *the one-eyed Minmatar scout dropsuit on the feed bows in return* Kim-haani.
[ 2013.09.07 05:47:40 ] Foley Jones > so i went to a doctor....they did some tests and they believe i have "PTSD" or some shit....whats PTSD?
[ 2013.09.07 05:48:08 ] Havohej > Post-traumatic Stress Disorder. Understandable for a disposable soldier, I'd think.
[ 2013.09.07 05:48:09 ] Ber Kan > pst traumatic stress syndrome
[ 2013.09.07 05:48:18 ] Ber Kan > or something like that.
[ 2013.09.07 05:48:23 ] Havohej > ...still don't see why they'd give a shit.
[ 2013.09.07 05:48:44 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > Um ... to an extent, I'm not ... sure that they do, pilot.
[ 2013.09.07 05:48:48 ] Caviar Liberta > Its like the ground combatant that is beating his head against the wall while singing oh happy day. Happy and sane aren't always mutual,.
[ 2013.09.07 05:48:50 ] Foley Jones > whats it mean to have it? and my CEO gave a shit
[ 2013.09.07 05:48:58 ] Baryn Taranogas > /emote mutters, "I thought it was 'Production Terminated, System Down'. Ah, well."
[ 2013.09.07 05:49:39 ] Havohej > It means, in brief, that certain events can trigger you to go off the rails in some way. It can be dangerous. But you're supposed to be dangerous.
[ 2013.09.07 05:49:42 ] Diana Kim > Oh, I remember we were passing psychical evaluation very often. I hated these "doctors" and their stupid questions. And they like always were like "get serious already". Gah. I wish they saw me now. Im fucking serious now.
[ 2013.09.07 05:50:01 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > ... usually? Well ... paranoia, nightmares and related phenomena, anxiety, flashbacks ...
[ 2013.09.07 05:50:09 ] Foley Jones > ...,indeed you are
[ 2013.09.07 05:51:07 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > We're ... um, supposed to be subject to especially extreme cases, courtesy of our ... frequent deaths.
[ 2013.09.07 05:51:13 ] Havohej > Tell me, Dusters... are you human?
[ 2013.09.07 05:51:19 ] Diana Kim > I think I lacked a bit of... determination, when I was studied in the academy and were serving in the Navy. And now Im quite firm with my resolve.
[ 2013.09.07 05:51:39 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > "Human" is a ... um, matter of perspective, pilot.
[ 2013.09.07 05:51:45 ] Havohej > Yes. It is.
[ 2013.09.07 05:51:58 ] Foley Jones > flashbacks? well i don't have my memories to flashback on...Paranoia? msybe...nightmares? a few..unless im cuddling THEN i sleep fucking GOOD
[ 2013.09.07 05:52:25 ] Havohej > I imagine the tech that transfers your consciousness is related to that which transfers ours...
[ 2013.09.07 05:52:37 ] Caviar Liberta > Now lets see if I was in charge of the Dust program I'd have R&D come up with a targeted memory wipe so as to wipe some select memories to reduce any post combat issues.
[ 2013.09.07 05:52:50 ] Havohej > Which would lead to the potential for greater similarities. In theory. If it's so.
[ 2013.09.07 05:52:50 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > ... It seems inevitably related. The source is still ... ah, unknown, I'm afraid, pilot.
[ 2013.09.07 05:53:21 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > It does replace portions of the brain, however, rather than merely augment what is already there.
[ 2013.09.07 05:53:27 ] Foley Jones > apparently there was a failure in transfering my memories
[ 2013.09.07 05:53:51 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > The brainstem and hippocampus are both ... replaced entirely.
[ 2013.09.07 05:54:28 ] Foley Jones > well its late guess im off....hey Kim! you free saturday?
[ 2013.09.07 05:54:31 ] Caviar Liberta > /emote coughs and mutters wetware?
[ 2013.09.07 05:54:42 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > ... And since the latter is involved in the formation of long-term memory, that probably ... explains what, um, happened to Mr. Jones. Assuming ... that it was an accident.
[ 2013.09.07 05:55:01 ] Havohej > I see.
[ 2013.09.07 05:55:03 ] Diana Kim > Oh... poor Mr. Jones! Now I know what is wrong with you! You should hire yourself a drill instructor, who will teach you proper behaviour! That will compensate memory loss.
[ 2013.09.07 05:55:33 ] Foley Jones > .....riiiiiiiight, you free saturday Kim?
[ 2013.09.07 05:55:36 ] Ber Kan > /emote thinks a moment. 'I could do such a thing, though physical punishment is always there...regardless of punishment.'
[ 2013.09.07 05:55:40 ] Havohej > I would think that replacing pieces of the brain outright would retard the potential for evolution. Are these pieces replaced in every iteration, then?
[ 2013.09.07 05:55:47 ] Diana Kim > Free? FREE?!!!
[ 2013.09.07 05:55:58 ] Ber Kan > /emote twitchs and then shushs up.
[ 2013.09.07 05:56:00 ] Diana Kim > /emote twitches eye nervously
[ 2013.09.07 05:56:03 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > ... regardless ... though they, um, do call us "immortals," it ... does seem likely that the average DUST operative will have an even ... shorter career than the average capsuleer.
[ 2013.09.07 05:56:14 ] Ber Kan > Madam kim, remember your teachings.
[ 2013.09.07 05:56:30 ] Foley Jones > .....yeah Free...wanna ask you out to dinner! or a movie!
[ 2013.09.07 05:56:38 ] Diana Kim > /emote leans back on the couch, places hand on her chest and pants
[ 2013.09.07 05:57:13 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > Hm ... well, that is possible, Pilot Havohej ... our skill development system certainly seems to reflect a lack of confidence in our ability to retain ... learned knowledge.
[ 2013.09.07 05:58:04 ] Diana Kim > I am not free! I have duty, morals, norms, regulations, love and obligations! I serve the State, Mr. Jones!
[ 2013.09.07 05:58:23 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > Our ... um, skills are hardwired, rather than being based on knowledge-download technology.
[ 2013.09.07 05:58:32 ] Havohej > If there's such a lack of confidence in the technology... specifically, yourselves, that suggests the technology is still under development?
[ 2013.09.07 05:58:43 ] Foley Jones > .... you can't take 30 minutes to have dinner with me?.......ok...
[ 2013.09.07 05:58:54 ] Menalea Aldurald > /emote mutters, "And they say tobots have no emotion."
[ 2013.09.07 05:59:00 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > It's quite possible. The ... um, first generation was ... almost entirely exterminated, after all.
[ 2013.09.07 05:59:10 ] Menalea Aldurald > (robots)
[ 2013.09.07 05:59:18 ] Ber Kan > /emote nods. 'And with this hilarity of a failed date attempt, I must leave. it seem's my attention is required amongst divisional command.' Ber Salutes properly and his immage dissepears.
[ 2013.09.07 05:59:23 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > ... which suggests ... well, some issues.
[ 2013.09.07 06:00:15 ] Havohej > And so, should a better Duster be developed, it's likely they will destroy the current lot as well, I suppose. To me, that begs the question: what to do with the consciousnesses of the current batch? Delete, or transfer to the upgraded hull?
[ 2013.09.07 06:00:22 ] Diana Kim > /emote automatically salutes back
[ 2013.09.07 06:00:56 ] Foley Jones > well i guess im off....you free sunday? no? ok.....
[ 2013.09.07 06:01:00 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > Well ... for the most part, we've ... thus far been transferred, where possible, at ... least as I understand it.
[ 2013.09.07 06:01:10 ] Menalea Aldurald > /emote laughs softly
[ 2013.09.07 06:02:15 ] Havohej > Which is to say, maybe not all get transferred. I wonder if problems like PTSD in Dusters move with the consciousness or if they're a manifestation of defects persisting through clone iteration after the initial damage takes place. But that particular
[ 2013.09.07 06:02:21 ] Havohej > science is not my forte...
[ 2013.09.07 06:02:45 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > If ... nothing else, the consciousness takes time to adapt to the hardwiring. The ... hardwiring may be in place, but ... that does not mean that the consciousness is integrated with it.
[ 2013.09.07 06:02:55 ] Foley Jones > /emote dis connects
[ 2013.09.07 06:03:45 ] Havohej > /emote nods slowly. > I see. It sounds like some manner of tech upgrade must be in the works, then. I can't imagine they'd be aware of this glitch and simply leave it alone.
[ 2013.09.07 06:03:45 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > Well ... we are probably a bit more disposable than capsuleers. Decent ... soldiers are rather more common than pod-compatible baseliners.
[ 2013.09.07 06:04:35 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > I'm not ... um, respectfully, quite sure it's a "glitch," as ... such. Capsuleer hardwiring works a bit differently from ours, but ... even yours requires a degree of training, does it not?
[ 2013.09.07 06:05:54 ] Havohej > I'm not sure that pod-compatible and baseliner are terms that can truly be used together, but I can see your point. As to the training, it's been quite a long time but all I remember of that part of the training was "this is going to be disorienting..
[ 2013.09.07 06:05:58 ] Havohej > suck it up, pilot."
[ 2013.09.07 06:06:38 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > Um ... there is a "cybernetics" skill download, is there not?
[ 2013.09.07 06:07:17 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > ... and of course, you get "Infomorph Psychology" before you're ... permitted to use jump clones.
[ 2013.09.07 06:07:32 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > Some of my ... colleagues could probably have ... used that sort of class.
[ 2013.09.07 06:07:32 ] Havohej > Ah. It seems we were talking about different things, just now. You mean the hardwirings themselves that we use? For instance implants that improve our skill with various turret-based weapons systems?
[ 2013.09.07 06:08:01 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > *the scout's blue-masked face nods*
[ 2013.09.07 06:09:32 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > What ... um, I was getting at is that ... even your probably somewhat ... less-intrusive form takes some ... ah, getting used to.
[ 2013.09.07 06:10:36 ] Havohej > Well.. in terms of our downloaded skills, they're naturally fully integrated. We download the information, we have the ability. Same with the hardwirings. Suddenly I'm a much more accurate predator after I have the implant plugged in. Jumping from
[ 2013.09.07 06:11:38 ] Havohej > one clone with one set of implants to another clone with a different set causes me no more disorientation than jumping from one clone to an identical clone. A few seconds, and I'm ready to hunt again... perhaps because entire pieces of our brain
[ 2013.09.07 06:11:45 ] Havohej > aren't... synthetic, is it?
[ 2013.09.07 06:11:53 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > Um, respectfully, yes ... but you require a certain ... background knowledge of cybernetic systems before you can ... use them, correct?
[ 2013.09.07 06:12:10 ] Havohej > Of course.
[ 2013.09.07 06:12:57 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > ... Also, I'm ... not sure your gel-matrix ... brain can really be described in any manner other than "synthetic," respectfully.
[ 2013.09.07 06:13:34 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > ... but it's true that ours has an actual implant ... ah, supplanting rather than supplementing our ... brain functions.
[ 2013.09.07 06:13:44 ] Havohej > /emote chuckles > Touche, Duster.
[ 2013.09.07 06:14:24 ] Havohej > /emote muses > I wonder how much more or less effective I might be if entire portions of my clones' brains were 'implants'...
[ 2013.09.07 06:17:02 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > *she bows* Um ... Dead Six Initiative Staff Psychologist-- um, honorary title, mostly-- Yun Hee Ryeon, pilot.
[ 2013.09.07 06:17:47 ] Caviar Liberta > /emote starts to speak and motions with a hand in a vague direction. Think about this for a moment. Imagine for a moment if we were essentially the same of you dusters. But our first death is a ploy to link our real body to a remote controlled clone bod...
[ 2013.09.07 06:18:08 ] Caviar Liberta > as you
[ 2013.09.07 06:18:54 ] Havohej > /emote nods his head with a vague motion suggestive of a hat tip > Enkil Akheteru, Ryeon. Callsign: Havohej. Executor of the Shinjiketo zaibatsu.
[ 2013.09.07 06:19:12 ] Havohej > Well met.
[ 2013.09.07 06:20:27 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > A pleasure, Executor Akheteru. ... Um, I'm ... not quite sure what you are getting at, Mr. Liberta?
[ 2013.09.07 06:20:42 ] Menalea Aldurald > Niether does he.
[ 2013.09.07 06:21:31 ] Caviar Liberta > /emote nods back, Aegis Commander, Moira Division, Black Rise Expendary Force Unit
[ 2013.09.07 06:22:28 ] Diana Kim > /emote shrugs * He's a gallentean after all
[ 2013.09.07 06:23:29 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > *she cocks her head* Moira is ... um, a Gallentean partisan organization, is it not, Aegis Commander?
[ 2013.09.07 06:24:07 ] Caviar Liberta > actually you know thats the first I have ever mentioned my foll title and chain of command
[ 2013.09.07 06:25:24 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > ... *the scout dropsuit turns its single ember eye towards Diana Kim* ... I ... see-- ah, very Gallente.
[ 2013.09.07 06:25:27 ] Caviar Liberta > Yes it is a pro federation organization. However we will question the actions of those in charge in the Federal Navy and government when needed
[ 2013.09.07 06:26:42 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > . . . I see. Thank you, pilot. I have, ah ... been working opposite certain of your associated elements. It is ... a pleasure, regardless.
[ 2013.09.07 06:29:56 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > ... and I am sorry that I will not ... be able to test your abilities in ... any direct fashion, at ... least personally.
[ 2013.09.07 06:30:23 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > And at ... um, least soon.
[ 2013.09.07 06:30:47 ] Havohej > Aggressive, aren't you.
[ 2013.09.07 06:31:34 ] Diana Kim > I wouldn't mind... "testing" his... "abilities" in person *grins widely*
[ 2013.09.07 06:33:12 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > A Moira pilot is an ... enemy of the State I ... exist to defend. That said, it is ... not a personal issue. I ... am what I am, pilot. It is how I maintain my ... own center and sense of self ...
[ 2013.09.07 06:33:30 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > ... even if I am a leaf in a typhoon, in the end.
[ 2013.09.07 06:34:37 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > Respectfully, Kim-haani, I ... prefer not to contemplate too ... closely the option of engaging capsuleers out of pod.
[ 2013.09.07 06:35:11 ] Havohej > I was under the impression that Dust mercs were pure mercenaries. You have a loyalty to the State, though,.. should I call you Doctor?
[ 2013.09.07 06:35:15 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > ... that is a grim eventuality, as it would ... likely herald the ... destruction of one or both of our classes.
[ 2013.09.07 06:36:23 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > *she shakes her head* Funnily, most ... actual psychologists know better than to ... um, subject themselves to strongly scarring psychological forces. I am ... ah, an interested amateur.
[ 2013.09.07 06:36:41 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > My ... title, as I said, is ... honorary, mostly.
[ 2013.09.07 06:36:41 ] Alexia Blekna > /emote connected. She was almost smiling, but a blank expression creeped across her face. Soft sounds were apparent; the low creaks and moans of a Minmatar ship's refusal to fall apart when entering hyperspace.
[ 2013.09.07 06:37:57 ] Havohej > I'll stick with Ryeon, then. For simplicity's sake, Havohej or simply Havo will suffice. "Executor Akheteru" is much more formal than this channel warrants, I think.
[ 2013.09.07 06:38:09 ] Diana Kim > Oh... please excuse me for a moment *stands up, holding hand on her chest and using couch as support with second hand, approaches desk slowly, takes a bottle of water*
[ 2013.09.07 06:38:56 ] Diana Kim > /emote returns back on the couch, drinks a bit * So, why would it be destruction of our classes?
[ 2013.09.07 06:39:37 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > The most ... reliable way to kill a capsuleer is to eliminate any backups, typically by sabotage, then kill the primary.
[ 2013.09.07 06:40:15 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > ... Preferably by wholly unrecoverable means.
[ 2013.09.07 06:40:15 ] Diana Kim > Oh, you mean to destroy completely capsuleer memories and all offsprings?
[ 2013.09.07 06:41:25 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > That is the only reason for one of us to stalk one of you out of pod. Otherwise ... there is a great risk of accidental, permanent death, since not all capsuleers use any form of backup.
[ 2013.09.07 06:42:00 ] Diana Kim > I have another idea, how to hurt a capsuleer really hard.
[ 2013.09.07 06:42:02 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > This is ... well, an extreme and absolute option.
[ 2013.09.07 06:42:13 ] Diana Kim > First you kill a capsuleer, and then scan him.
[ 2013.09.07 06:42:52 ] Diana Kim > I still... can't recover after this. And thinking about how I could do the same to my enemies.
[ 2013.09.07 06:43:19 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > Respectfully, Kim-haani, I will ... leave such musings to yourself.
[ 2013.09.07 06:43:53 ] Havohej > This loyalty to the State, Ryeon... may I ask 'why'?
[ 2013.09.07 06:43:54 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > I do ... not desire our classes to be pitted against one another; such a thing would likely be hard to stop once begun in earnest.
[ 2013.09.07 06:44:10 ] Diana Kim > It makes me to... feel better, when I imagine, that gallentean will suffer this way!
[ 2013.09.07 06:44:40 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > Well ...
[ 2013.09.07 06:45:21 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > ... The State guards certain things I value, Mr. Havohej. Things I wish to ... see preserved.
[ 2013.09.07 06:46:30 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > You ... may have heard Kim-haani address me as "Ryeon-achur." I am not a ... full citizen of the Caldari State; by ... choice, I have taken advantage of my clone soldier status to revert ...
[ 2013.09.07 06:46:40 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > ... to an Achur identity.
[ 2013.09.07 06:47:44 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > My ... people are clients of the State. You ... might think of it as being a bit like a cross ... between a poor cousin and a protected species.
[ 2013.09.07 06:48:32 ] Havohej > ...a not-entirely-wanted houseguest, or a pet.
[ 2013.09.07 06:49:08 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > Cast darkly, perhaps. Neither we nor most Caldari see it so. The Templis might, but I do not care very much about their opinions.
[ 2013.09.07 06:49:41 ] Havohej > These things you value...?
[ 2013.09.07 06:50:22 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > The Caldari uplifted our homeworld-- the urban areas-- just before they left the Federation. They left the rest of it to us, and so it remains.
[ 2013.09.07 06:52:01 ] Havohej > By uplifted, do you mean to say "modernized the valuable areas enough for the megacorporations to exploit"?
[ 2013.09.07 06:53:37 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > Considering that we are talking about Sukuuvestaa, Pilot, that they are a Practical corporation, and that they forebore to exploit our world anywhere nearly so fiercely as they might have ...
[ 2013.09.07 06:54:26 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > ... also considering that we were a preindustrial civilization when they arrived ...
[ 2013.09.07 06:54:38 ] Herra Gunter > Man, that was like a Serpentis invasion over here...
[ 2013.09.07 06:54:45 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > ... we're not quite so sure as you seem to be that it was a bad deal.
[ 2013.09.07 06:56:07 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > In sharp contrast to the Amarrian approach to the Matari, for example, we still have the vast majority of our land, and no effort has been made to stamp out our culture or faith.
[ 2013.09.07 06:56:27 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > In fact, we are a sovereign nation-- albeit clients to the State.
[ 2013.09.07 06:57:00 ] Havohej > Exploitation isn't always a "bad deal," per se. But I think it'd be hard to deny that, while Achur may have pulled the least of the possible evils in that straw-draw of fate, even Sukuuvestaa wouldn't do anything out of the kindness of their hearts.
[ 2013.09.07 06:58:07 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > Perhaps not kindness, as such. The Caldari are very set upon being themselves, but their leaders are not blind to other truths.
[ 2013.09.07 06:58:50 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > The Caldari recognize Achur spirituality as close kin to their own. I was speaking more literally than you may have thought when I described us as "poor cousins."
[ 2013.09.07 07:00:22 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > Like the Intaki, we see and explore the same truths as the Caldari, just from a different angle. It takes a hard heart to exploit kin as far as they might theoretically be exploitable.
[ 2013.09.07 07:00:36 ] Havohej > I see. It seems perhaps there is an element of gratitude to your decision of loyalty, then, no?
[ 2013.09.07 07:02:10 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > And a desire to see the relationship survive, yes. The Caldari offer both peace and isolation, as well as self-governance; the Gallente cannot be counted upon to offer anything of the sort.
[ 2013.09.07 07:02:32 ] Yun Hee Ryeon > For one thing, they do insist on having their democracy....
[ 2013.09.07 07:02:48 ] Havohej > /emote scowls slightly. > Don't I know it.
[ 2013.09.07 07:03:34 ] Havohej > It's been interesting speaking with you, soldier. Fight well.
[ 2013.09.07 07:03:41 ] Havohej > /emote disconnects.[/spoiler]