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Author Topic: Star Wars without Lucas  (Read 5626 times)

Wanoah

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Aldrith Shutaq

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Reyd Karris

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Re: Star Wars without Lucas
« Reply #17 on: 31 Oct 2012, 15:55 »

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Seriphyn

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Re: Star Wars without Lucas
« Reply #18 on: 31 Oct 2012, 16:22 »

Is that actually real?
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Gottii

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Lyn Farel

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Re: Star Wars without Lucas
« Reply #20 on: 31 Oct 2012, 17:22 »

Warning: Vorpal Wall-O-Text +6 incoming.

Then I remembered Disney target audience...  :bash:
Meh, they're trying to diversify. Nothing wrong with that, and at least they're buying a franchise that they admit appeals to an older demographic. Disney appears to understand what Lucas still just doesn't get; you need the older fans to enjoy the franchise in order to get the younger fans enjoying it as well. Without the whole, "the fans just don't understand my vision!" BS that Lucas has spouted over the past year or so, we're probably in for some awesome things to come.

As for the ongoing worries of "It's going to be John Carter all over again!", the only thing I have to say is this: John Carter was never popular, whereas Star Wars is one of the top grossing franchises in history with a built-in fan base. John Carter was made into countless B-movie schlock-fests over the past few years, including a SyFy original movie starring Antonio Sabato, Jr. I saw John Carter; it sucked. It was literally half a movie stretched out way too long with a piss-poor, anti-climactic cliffhanger ending (that had absolutely no resolution whatsoever). It was like watching The Last Airbender with my daughter and seeing her face slowly drop as she realized all the life had been drained from the beautiful tapestry of the cartoon had been sucked dry by M. Night Shyamalan's insistence on using actors and characters as set pieces for his confusing, lifeless "vision" of what the cartoon should have been. Both The Last Airbender (not made by Disney, but another franchise that was attempting to be the "next Star Wars" like John Carter) and The John Carter of Mars novels could have been something absolutely amazing, and instead they just threw special effects around to cover up a horrible script and directing.

Slightly off topic, but my point is this; there's been plenty of examples in the past years of what people don't want. Disney, with their brilliant handling of The Avengers and other movies in the Marvel lineup (and ancillary licensing) have shown a remarkable knowledge of what exactly needs to be done. I trust them. Furthermore, I'm guessing Disney realized that trying to make a franchise like Star Wars was pointless when they could just flat out buy the Star Wars franchise. ;)

Interesting note: Lucasfilm brings in just under a quarter billion a year in revenue. If Disney could leverage that into more successful movies and TV shows, Disney could probably double that within two years, and maybe even triple it with proper licensing. Disney's got the experience there, and the multimedia resources to pull it off. In less than 5 years, the franchise could potentially pay for itself. The caveat is that this only works if they give the fans what they want! Which, in all honesty, would be new movies and some awesome tie-ins (not crappy MMO's; I'm staring at you, TOR!). Not 3D re-rendered previously-released six films, not "digital hi-hi-def re-release". Disney has flat out said they're making new movies, and they have a timeline on those releases (2015 for the first movie, two more following in 2-3 year intervals). So, I'm interested to see what they are bringing to the table. I'm tentatively excited.  :D

They also need to manage expectations if they choose to retcon almost 20 years of novels and ancillary licensing. The Star Wars tabletop game was picked up by Fantasy Flight Games, and from the looks of it, will have the feel of the old WEG game. Very happy with that. On the movies though, they've got two years to whip fans into a frenzy.

On a side note, I for one won't mind if they retcon the Yuuzhan Vong out of the franchise. While I enjoyed some of the books, most just didn't feel like Star Wars.  :s

Having had to deal with a lot of what I would call the new fan base - meaning, the ones that crave for the prelogy, breeded with clonewars 3D and all that crap and find the original movies dull - I am not sure that we are talking about the same fanbase that actually seems to matter these days. :/


Though I have a lot of hope for SW 1313.
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Reyd Karris

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Re: Star Wars without Lucas
« Reply #21 on: 31 Oct 2012, 21:55 »

Having had to deal with a lot of what I would call the new fan base - meaning, the ones that crave for the prelogy, breeded with clonewars 3D and all that crap and find the original movies dull - I am not sure that we are talking about the same fanbase that actually seems to matter these days. :/
That "new fanbase" didn't make Clone Wars 3D anything more than a moderate success.  ;) Critics panned it. Longtime fans just didn't care.

What you need for a mainstream success, is to bring in new fans as well as satisfy the devoted. Those things aren't mutually exclusive. The new Spider-Man movie, The Avengers... pretty good examples of how it can be done.

Disney believes there is a desire from the fanbase for new films. They're right. I wouldn't see another "special edition" of either trilogy, but I'd see a new movie (not animated) in a heartbeat. Probably multiple times, depending on how good it was. I wouldn't need 3d, high frame rate, super-high-Def images either. Just a good story, with good acting, and some special effects that make me go 'Wow' and let me forget about the rest of the world for 2 hours.

Oh, and if it can be internally consistent with the majority of the rest of the franchise, that would be really great.  :s
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orange

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Re: Star Wars without Lucas
« Reply #22 on: 31 Oct 2012, 22:53 »

If it was set in TOR?  Or set alongside the events of EP4-5?

There is so much material already out there; the story has been written and published.
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lallara zhuul

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Re: Star Wars without Lucas
« Reply #23 on: 01 Nov 2012, 03:00 »

Odd.

I found the John Carter movie good, because the original John Carter is not that complex anyways, its pretty much Tarzan on Mars which kind of takes out the possibility of a complex storyline. The visuals of John Carter we're awesome, Barsoomians rocked and it was a jolly good adventure romp, in Mars.

Amazing Spider-Man.

Complete and utter tat. The casting was horrible, except for the villain. The storyline lacked in every aspect that the former Spider-Man excelled in. Also I think its hard to beat Sam Raimi at what he does, because he is really good at directing certain kinds of emotional scale that the new reboot lacked. No emotions, bad one liners and Peter Parker with a permanent duckface.

Avengers...

Let's just say that the movies for the main characters were much better and leave it at that.

Star Wars.

I grew up on the trilogy, I read the old comics that were released around the time they were.
I grew up on the comics that came after that as well.
The universe that the main characters lived in was harsh, full of death and hardship.
Then the franchise turned into this... a hero under every rock, major character behind every corner, fluff and shinies.
Then the re-imagining of the original trilogy started to crop up.
Mos Eisley was no longer a dead end town in the middle of nowhere, the streets were full of all kinds of curious life that Lucas did not have resources to put in when he was making it originally. Big reptiles, nods towards the franchise.
It sucked.
Then there was the second re-imagining.
It was worse.
Then the prequel trilogy, which was even more chock full of silly space reptiles and flying whatnots.
Around that time I got my hands on the Dark Empire series.
It had the grit and the harshness similar to the first comics I had laid my hands on.
Also the artist was the same guy who used to do Judge Dredd in AD2000 which echoed with me as well.
I was carefully optimistic about the possibility that there would be balls involved in the future of Star Wars.
But in the Dark Empire... there is Hans and Leias kids... which was the Ewok movies and Last Action Hero written all over it.

Let's face it.

Without serious retcon and reinventing of the whole concept of Star Wars it will not amount to anything anymore.
The books and the comics have explored the universe into such depth that there are no more new stories to tell.

The future does not bode well.

Especially with the first PR picture of the whole thing being the Depressed George Lucas meme.

Not George Lucas.

The input from Disney into it.
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Star Wars without Lucas
« Reply #24 on: 01 Nov 2012, 03:27 »

Having had to deal with a lot of what I would call the new fan base - meaning, the ones that crave for the prelogy, breeded with clonewars 3D and all that crap and find the original movies dull - I am not sure that we are talking about the same fanbase that actually seems to matter these days. :/
That "new fanbase" didn't make Clone Wars 3D anything more than a moderate success.  ;) Critics panned it. Longtime fans just didn't care.

What you need for a mainstream success, is to bring in new fans as well as satisfy the devoted. Those things aren't mutually exclusive. The new Spider-Man movie, The Avengers... pretty good examples of how it can be done.

Disney believes there is a desire from the fanbase for new films. They're right. I wouldn't see another "special edition" of either trilogy, but I'd see a new movie (not animated) in a heartbeat. Probably multiple times, depending on how good it was. I wouldn't need 3d, high frame rate, super-high-Def images either. Just a good story, with good acting, and some special effects that make me go 'Wow' and let me forget about the rest of the world for 2 hours.

Oh, and if it can be internally consistent with the majority of the rest of the franchise, that would be really great.  :s

You sound like you work for disney and know what their true motives really are  :D

Critics matter so much today ? Lucas may be hated for how he turned mid ep6, but the thing is that his industrial empire has not built itself on mere ideals and artistic creation. It has rather been built around merchandising, commercial agendas touching the masses, whatever he has been telling himself all along ("will ep1 be good enough to beat Titanic ?" duh). The thing is that it has worked for decades now. He has made billions out of it, and Disney probably knows it.

If they feel that they genuinely want to do something great and new, fine, I'll be the first to be happy about it, but after so many years of crappy, cheesy, or dull products on his behalf (i'm not speaking about the good things here and there that came out, like a lot of good comics or a very few novels, or the old lucasart games), and even if this is Disney behind it now, forgive me for not being able to be enthusiastic anymore about that license. :/

The new fanbase is the standard now. I am pretty sure the old guard is what it is : the old geeky guard, a minority. In my experience, it is anyway. Better not to ask to much from the masses, most of them do not have the artistic sensibility to make the difference between a good movie and a bad one (or else, hollywood would be an artistic paradise). As long as they have crappy FX and CGI, action, and perfectly expectable outcomes, they will pay for it. And producers will continue to tell their artists to create the same crap again and again because it works, be it in video games or in the movie industry. At least now, in the video games industry alternate sources of publishing (like crowdsourcing) and new platforms (online publishing and cloud gaming) make that artists can now actually show the publishers the middle finger and do something interesting for a change, but that's another story.

That's not to say that they do not create good things here and there, and I envy your optimism on this matter.
« Last Edit: 01 Nov 2012, 03:32 by Lyn Farel »
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Star Wars without Lucas
« Reply #25 on: 01 Nov 2012, 03:36 »

Well yeah...

With Lucas supposed to be doing some consulting for the new episodes...  :bash:
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Karmilla Strife

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Re: Star Wars without Lucas
« Reply #26 on: 01 Nov 2012, 03:42 »

The film will feature a 72-year old Harrison Ford as Han Solo battling to escape the Death Star retirement center.

No one can match the shuffleboard capabilities of this fully armed and operational retirement center!

He'd still  be the only one that could act.
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Khloe

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Re: Star Wars without Lucas
« Reply #27 on: 01 Nov 2012, 11:07 »

Lucas has stated that his target audience for the prequels was children, hence why most older people bidden with nostalgia were so disgruntled by the new releases. I'm not going to be terribly surprised if they continue this trend with the next releases, and despite my misgivings I'll probably go to see them like an idiot. :P
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Seriphyn

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Graanvlokkie

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Re: Star Wars without Lucas
« Reply #29 on: 01 Nov 2012, 14:31 »

All of Lucas Art's property since Episode IV, V and VI which didn't involve George Lucas, has been better than everything that did involve him in that period.

I am really looking forward to what can be done movie wise in the Star Wars Galaxy.
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