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[Jev North]

The thing with EVE is that assets straddle the IC/OOC line. In PnP, fortunes and empires can be gained and lost by fiat and a stroke of the pen; in EVE, they also represent real value, and are closer to the actual physical tokens of the game itself. I'm simply not playing nice with people whom I know to have a habit of stealing the books, dice, and possibly the silverware. No matter how nice their characters are.

Time is a universal commodity to those whose life is finite: a person who steals time or the equivalent from some body robs them of a real resource. Would you be willing to say a person whose had hours of mining labor stolen from them (via thievery not pewpew) is equally comparable to someone whose DnD books got jacked?

Mh, decent point. I'd say it's comparable, though not equally; in the case of EVE, the theft is explicitly allowed by the rules of the game, so I admit I might've dramatized the situation a little much. It's hard to draw a satisfying RL comparision. Real-money poker game when you know one of the players is a card shark who'll probably take you for all you've brought to the table?

[Vieve]

If you don't want your character's personal angst to be the subject of rumour and gossip--let alone any information that has wider opsec implications--don't blog it publicly.

Or use unreliable narrators. 

[Casiella]

If you don't want your character's personal angst to be the subject of rumour and gossip--let alone any information that has wider opsec implications--don't blog it publicly.

Or use unreliable narrators. 

Well, if you're treating it as rumor, that has the same effect... kinda.

[Bastian Valoron]

There are circumstances where one has to make choices. If losing something would be devastating for character's soul, why doesn't he keep it in his own hangar or use contracts for distribution? The risks are known. If all the IC accessible precautions cannot ease player's inner feeling of insecurity, then I guess there's nothing else to do than resort to OOC methods of security but that's not role-playing anymore.

It's perfectly understandable that dropping RP can be good sometimes because other options would have a larger negative impact on the role-playing in other contexts, on other venues. I just personally feel that the spy paranoia has got out of proportion and is actually a bigger problem than what the actual thieves could ever be.

[Matariki Rain]

For Ghost: While I'm much more relaxed now about the idea of using personal information as "rumour", I still tend to firewall chronicle information that's explicitly not known. Interesting, huh?

Uplifted is a difficult chron for you. Outcast is a difficult chron for me; not because it shows troubling things about the faction I play most, but because it explicitly says that it's not known about and would have political ramifications (originally it said with the Gallente) if it were revealed. (Oh, and it really doesn't make sense, but we've discussed the "Huh what?!" aspects of it before. It's had a little light retconning since I wrote that.)

And Vieve is correct: between unreliable narrators, intentional disinformation, and the slants and swirls "rumour" applies, you're getting more information, but you might not be getting more "truthiness".

[Casiella]

And Vieve is correct: between unreliable narrators, intentional disinformation, and the slants and swirls "rumour" applies, you're getting more information, but you might not be getting more "truthiness".

Actually, just the opposite: you're getting "truthiness", not necessarily truth. It sounds like it could or even should be true, but may not be.

Which then makes tremendous fun for RP, until somebody gets a stick up their ass and gets all "that's not true, your RP is bad" OOCly.

[Tiberious Thessalonia]

I'mma vent for a second here.

People love to bring up the events of Uplifted with me while Im discussing any given thing.  "What about all those people you kidnapped?  With the nanites?  And they were screaming while it happened?  That doesn't sound like a particularly willing evacuation to me, you know, Tib?  WHY ARE YOU LYING TO US?"

And while this would be fair if that knowledge was particularly well known, the fact that it shouldnt be tends to grind my gears a bit because it means that every single discussion on the subject becomes a back and forth of "Well, why don't you guys prove that Nation's actions were so horrific, and not as we say it was, a rescue?"

The response is to go "Well, see, we have this thing here which says that it went down the way I say it did."

Bleh.

Its the same thing with the events of Templar One, TEA, and so forth.  Theres no way anyone could know it, really, so its entirely unusuable from an RP standpoint.. but we being RPers, we want to figure out a way to do so, because we really want to play within the limits set for us by CCP, because otherwise why arent we just running some massive PbP game?

Rant over.

[Casiella]

I dunno, it's been a while since I read it but isn't it feasible that recordings exist showing what happened?

[Tiberious Thessalonia]

I think the Sansha basically blew every communication device outbound before they showed up, using the same tech they disable all non-capsuleer ships with.

[Morwen Lagann]

I'd like to point out that with the Uplifted chronicle, the "Magical Voodoo Nanite Macguffin method" was already among the most popular of IC theories before the chronicle was published.

It's less "we wanted an explanation, they gave us one SO NOW WE USE IT", and more "they confirmed one of our theories, HAMMER IT INTO THEIR FACES ERRYDAY".

[Ulphus]

People love to bring up the events of Uplifted with me while Im discussing any given thing.  "What about all those people you kidnapped?  With the nanites?  And they were screaming while it happened?  That doesn't sound like a particularly willing evacuation to me, you know, Tib?  WHY ARE YOU LYING TO US?"

And while this would be fair if that knowledge was particularly well known, the fact that it shouldnt be tends to grind my gears a bit because it means that every single discussion on the subject becomes a back and forth of "Well, why don't you guys prove that Nation's actions were so horrific, and not as we say it was, a rescue?"

Before that chronicle came out, I had a public argument with Kyber about this very subject where Kyber told me they'd all gone willingly, and I told him he was full of shit. That there was no way anyone could have convinced 100% of Matari in a given area to do anything, and that it couldn't have been a willing evacuation. Kyber said something like "They're very convincing", though I can't recall exactly what.

The chronicle just gave a mechanism (that I couldn't know IC), but I'd already decided IC there was something the Sansha were doing (Experience dealing with Kyber before and after his defection suggests being exposed to their comms networks leaves you infected with something. That's one of the reasons I have given Rek shit from time to time as well.)

So if the subject ever comes up again, I'm not using that chronicle as a basis for thinking the Sansha are ebil slavers/kidnappers, Ok?

[Lyn Farel]

I think the Sansha basically blew every communication device outbound before they showed up, using the same tech they disable all non-capsuleer ships with.

Did they disable every camera, video feed, local sensors, holorecorders ?

[Matariki Rain]

I think the Sansha basically blew every communication device outbound before they showed up, using the same tech they disable all non-capsuleer ships with.

Did they disable every camera, video feed, local sensors, holorecorders ?

That's the theory for why there's no public record of what it's like, yes. Complete comms blackout. Some sort of EMP that their own ships were shielded from, presumably.

[Ghost Hunter]

Ah my example is steering the topic off course here...

For Ghost: While I'm much more relaxed now about the idea of using personal information as "rumour", I still tend to firewall chronicle information that's explicitly not known. Interesting, huh?

Uplifted is a difficult chron for you. Outcast is a difficult chron for me; not because it shows troubling things about the faction I play most, but because it explicitly says that it's not known about and would have political ramifications (originally it said with the Gallente) if it were revealed. (Oh, and it really doesn't make sense, but we've discussed the "Huh what?!" aspects of it before. It's had a little light retconning since I wrote that.)

And Vieve is correct: between unreliable narrators, intentional disinformation, and the slants and swirls "rumour" applies, you're getting more information, but you might not be getting more "truthiness".

Yes. There is a sub-argument to made specifically for just the availability of information in the game world as provided by the game creators - but that one is already well covered I think. I can understand you fire walling chronicle information (and perhaps Game Creator info in general), but this is where I diverge. My own experiences show me its simply not feasible to always do so, even though I would prefer it. Choice, unobtainable information in EVE can be extremely problematic and I cannot find an elegant solution to them if they arise.

I think the Sansha basically blew every communication device outbound before they showed up, using the same tech they disable all non-capsuleer ships with.

Did they disable every camera, video feed, local sensors, holorecorders ?

That's the theory for why there's no public record of what it's like, yes. Complete comms blackout. Some sort of EMP that their own ships were shielded from, presumably.

One of the pre-event special activities involved deciphering the presence of a Sansha Wyvern over a planet and what its electronic warfare was doing. It elaborated on how they by-passed local defenses, they completely overpowered the planetary systems and began directing people to the incoming harvester ships as the evacuation point. Viral contamination of computers, direct suppression of military response systems, etcetra.

Edit ; could probably split this into a separate discussion if people truly wish to analyze it considering it is particularly specific.
Edit 2 ; spider molestations affect my english skills it seems.

[Matariki Rain]

For reference, here are some of the previous discussions on this topic here on Backstage. I don't expect everyone to read them.

2010.04: IC & OOC

2010.05: Infiltration as RP

2010.06: Writings that are OOC public, but IC private?

2010.08: The dreaded IC/OoC divide, and in-game actions. and Catacombed Re: The dreaded IC/OoC divide, and in-game actions.

2010.09: Question about IC/OOC did I cross line? and Catacombed Re: Question about IC/OOC did I cross line?

2010.11: Blogs & Stories and when it is cheating. went straight to the Catacombs.

2010.11: Moderation discussion about The IC/OOC divide thread... and its own Catacombed Re: The IC/OOC divide thread...

2010.11: IC/OOC Divide

Note 1: While preparing this I fumbled upon the typo "Catabombed", which seemed to have some potential uses.

Note 2: A significant proportion of the people I usually play with are out shooting zombies. A couple of others are immersed in prep for ATX and won't become human again until that's over. I'm having a bout of "Meh" about logging into EVE. Part of my interest in this discussion is "Why is EVE not doing it for me at the moment? Have I become too distanced and cynical to engage in the types of roleplay I once enjoyed? What can I do to improve things, and do I want to?".