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[Mizhara]

So, I just logged in after two weeks or thereabouts... and found 13 or so mails in my inbox. All about Tomahawk Bliss challenging me to a duel, and adding half the RP community to the mail receiver list. I got to thinking about this stuff, and recalled that I've seen a lot of this. "Argument!"  "Counter-argument!"  "Fallacy!"  "RAEG!"  "Logical argument!"  "BATTLESHIPS AT DAWN!"

And always from characters with skillpoints pouring out of their ass if they sneeze.

I kept wondering about this, and never found an answer... What is the point? What on earth does a duel prove, one way or another? That one guy's got more ISK or SP than the other? That they like wasting crewmembers on e-peen contests? What conceivable IC benefit is there to a duel, and why always in Battleships?

Hell, Miz can't even fly Battleships yet. That's right, Minmatar Battleship skill: 0.

"Ahah! Coward! Crawl under a stone!"
"... wut?"
"You're not wasting your crew and staking your argument entirely on a duel! With a far more wealthy and powerful character, even."
"... yeah?"
"Coward!"
"...right."

Seriously, what conceivable correlation is there between a duel and a debate/discussion? What possible point would it have, or even bearing on it? I am going to go ahead and say none. The only thing I see here is this: A character isn't sure he can provide decent debate on a subject, and decides to divert it. "Duel! Or forfeit your argument!"

Is there any conceivable use for these duels that I missed somewhere? What possible IC reason could there be for them? Enlighten me, people, because I'm bloody confused.

[Lillith Blackheart]

"Wardec or STFU" has always been a cry for the player that appeals to violence. It's not all of them, it's a few, but some characters view everything as a personal slight, some players do, too. Some people always want to be number one. The only way to do that. . .

Eh.

What conceivable IC benefit is there to a duel, and why always in Battleships?

Because battleship combats are generally longer, they're more skill-based (actual player skill) due to that fact, and can be more even.

Also Battleship duels are often (but not always) fought to structure and not destruction.

[Mizhara]

Well, in this particular case, it was until you got podded.

I just thought there might be some reasoning behind the "Argument? DUEL!" mindset that I'd missed.

[Myyona]

No, I do not think you missed anything. The described mindset is pretty shallow, I am afraid.

[Lillith Blackheart]

Yeah, you pretty much nailed it from the OP. It's changing the fight to something they know they can win. Their argument is failed, they've got more isk/sps/whatever. Duel!

[Mizhara]

That's just... so sad.

[Rodj Blake]

I don't really see the point of duels as a means of solving debates.

But if you must have a duel, surely it should be frigate v frigate as they don't have crews besides the podder.  Battleship duels are the equivalent of two Napoleonic army officers having a duel and each turning up with their respective companies.

[Lillith Blackheart]

It's not supposed to solve the debate. That isn't the point.

It's the same way schoolyard fights start. That's all.

[Natalcya Katla]

I don't really think it's about winning the argument at all, really.

It strikes me as a way of saying "we're angry at each other, let's express it by beating the snot out of each other's ships (and crews)", possibly with the addition of "and if we're both good sports about it, perhaps we'll shake hands and make friends and go have a beer afterwards." It's not really about resolving the debate itself, so it doesn't have to be logical.  

Besides, duels are fun! That's reason enough to sacrifice a battleship crew made up of mere baseline humans.  

[Merdaneth]

The point of a duel is to have a nice (and perhaps somewhat balanced) PvP encounter with a clear RP reason to do so. In other words: fun.

Of course, in practice it will have much to do with skillpoints and isk.

With my Battleship choices fairly limited to three battleships which are relatively easily countered if you know what you can expect, and my penchant for not investing at all in implants, it is for me a really poor option and likely not a lot of fun for a duel.

[Merdaneth]

On the other hand, you should be glad of the interest, and the mere fact that you are challenged to a duel and many people do have opinions about it. I rarely get officially (in a RP sense) challenged to a duel, let alone get mails about such a challenge.

[Lillith Blackheart]

It's also a very easy logical fallacy to break down and make them look stupid with.

[Mazca]

Im just gonna say that I hate duels, and I would reject any offer to participate in one RP wise, But to call it sad and stupid... IC, well, no problem. To go to an OOC board and trash people for the IC challenge, not so cool.

I see absolutly no reason for you to accept the challenge. And I actually also find it pointless. So keep up the IC refutations and scorn them for suggesting it, but it's a perfectly valid RP tactic, that may just come as a character trait of the warriors, or heated outburst of a pasionate spirit, all IC. There needs not to be a sad or stupid OOC reason behind.

Doesn't this thread defeat the entire purpose of this forum actually?

 

[Kaleigh Doyle]

The only people that have ever done this are SF and the organizations that have emerged from their ideology. The general mindset is as Nat had explained, why bother with tit for tat endless bickering on the forums when the issue can be resolved mano-y-mano?

In our world, this works. It works because one guy dies and the other guy wins and, well, can draw breath to make his point again while the other gets buried in a cemetary. The problem with capsuleers is that they'll never die and you can't shut people up this way. Essentially ideological wars are obsolete between capsuleers. Fighting and dying for resources is a tangible effort, while trying to win a debate is fruitless.

A more sensible course of action, in my opinion, is instead of trying to find reason amongst ideologues, is to use your logic and debating ability to present your enemies' flawed arguments to the public to sway the audience in your favor and possibly generate interest in your own outfit.

[Casiella]

Im just gonna say that I hate duels, and I would reject any offer to participate in one RP wise, But to call it sad and stupid... IC, well, no problem. To go to an OOC board and trash people for the IC challenge, not so cool.

Doesn't this thread defeat the entire purpose of this forum actually?

QFE. I mean, I agree with the OP, but I don't think this actually adheres to the 'spirit of the law'.