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[Jade Constantine]

I sent a mail to Jade earlier, could be intresting to see how that unfolds, on the subject of rouge drones ide rather not go back to the days of huge IGS mud fights and slander hehe

I've had a pretty busy irl week this week Chieftan and haven't been too active in eve but I did receive the mail with interest and will reply ic this week, I can see some good options going forward and I'm quite excited at the possibilities for cooperation and progressive interaction in the placid region. I really like it when diplomacy is truly dynamic and people allow the roleplay interactions of their entities free reign rather than getting mired in old disputes (ooc or otherwise). Speaking personally on the SF and I-RED front - there are a lot of possibilities to be explored.

[Jade Constantine]

Well now see, that's a a predicament. I believe ANSH already made their statement clear on the IGS about, three months ago. Economic stability is the name of the game. Besides the folks whose characters just complained about it, we got some actual interesting conversation from the ILF, so, that was fun. Of course the "economic hub" idea also got picked up by AISA, exactly one month later, with "Intaki" replaced by "Agoze." Which, if anything, was encouraging, sort of proved we had a good idea.

Well it is a good idea - developing low sec market hubs is pretty good stuff - I've always been impressed by the ILF production tower in intaki as well as an example of actually putting rp into space and doing what they say on the tin.

Then the RDS showed up, ILF stepped up their presence, IRED abandoned their towers, and now SF is making the scene. Basically my point is, possibility in Intaki-based roleplay is pretty sticky. Everyone and their mamma wants a piece of it these days. It makes it interesting, because there's more groups involved. But the interactions between these groups usually just end with people arguing over which group has more invisible control points over the system.

Well, we're not interested in such arguments - we'd definitely be interested in some actual commercially-progressive roleplay (ie making money with ideologically revelant schemes and undertakings) and we're happy to cooperate with other NRDS/freespace/independent-minded entities prepared to accept our hand of truce and work together and improve the profits and freedoms of all.

It'd be nice to see some real interaction between factions. Usually the most action I've seen is milita groups in 2v2 or 2v3 engagements that they brag about for months after. A negotiations meeting, some businesslike discussion, these things would be nice, and I'm still hoping someone will actually work towards the RP sphere instead of just trying to "win" the game of Intaki. Until then it's at least been amusing locking down the system with an Ishtar and a Rifter.

So lets make it happen. I've got to admit I got pretty bored with the militia politics of endless killmail bragging on the amarrian front also - by all means lets think about some better options.

[Jade Constantine]

I really don't understand your point, Andreus.  Are you saying that Star Fraction shouldn't wardec people if they want rp?  Because I've seen scads of rp on the Minnie/Amarr FW front, the Caldari/Gallente FW front, between CVA and UK, between Blooders and Space Nuns, and other groups, including FEDRO's brief engagement with RIA.  Or are you saying that they shouldn't declare victory?  Because I've seen people rp that as well.

There might be a deeper point to consider there that could be discussed under the terms "why do RP wars create OOC drama?" but I'm not sure it could be hosted on backstage due to the generally flammable nature of this kind of thing. But even if we could have such a thread - it would be important to ensure it was a general discussion rather than based on specific involved entities otherwise the tendency to partizan name-calling would render the whole debate moot before it began. Perhaps its best just to acknowledge that "RP wars create Drama" because roleplayers are drama queens and leave it at that.

And of course, there are people who want to rp with the Star Fraction, as some of the responses in this thread (including my own) have shown.  So maybe you're just saying they shouldn't win?

Lets concentrate on the positive and I'd like to focus entirely on those players who do want to roleplay with us going forwards. Sure I can acknowledge there are those that don't - but eve is big enough for us to go our own ways and not keep bumping heads pointlessly. I want Star Fraction to get involved with progressive open-minded roleplay partners and I believe it can enrich the gameplay of those players and our own. Lets talk about the good stuff now!

[ChipMo]

BloodBird, I described Veto as a footnote as they were only ever refered to as an aside to Rote Kepelle. Since the fleets contained members from each. Certinly, Rote's involvement in this conflict was an important event in the war. I am only saying that whenever our pilots have talked about Veto it has really just been a tag along with Rote. Nothing more.

On the topic of ridiculing people in defeat thats just not true. Anyone who we agree formal terms with is always treated with the upmost respect. We have also accepted defeat on occation ourselfs. It is not such a ridiculus notion to accept you made a mistake, own up to it and move on. I think Sev3rance may fall into that catagory if you want to look it up. We also do not shy away from our defeats, they are woven into the tapastry of our characters as much as our victories.

Anyway, it doesn't matter what we do really, as this is how we craft our characters. I'm intrested in how Moira (Soter in particular) see's these events impact on his character. As I read the characters last comments on IGS he sounds quite insane. Now maybe I have underestimated his approch? Perhaps this is a new twist in his character?

[Verone]

BloodBird, I described Veto as a footnote as they were only ever refered to as an aside to Rote Kepelle. Since the fleets contained members from each. Certinly, Rote's involvement in this conflict was an important event in the war. I am only saying that whenever our pilots have talked about Veto it has really just been a tag along with Rote. Nothing more.

Tends to be the case. The two alliances share FCing duties, and Rote tends to be more prone to wanting to nail SF, so we chase more when Rote's leadership are in command than when our own are.

[Svenjabi Xiang]

Not to be discounting the ongoing war with Moira. which is certainly continuing, but I'm actually quite intrigued to be involved with Intaki roleplay.  I chose the race of my character fairly deliberately from the in-game writeups offered but then was quite grumpy at the lack of ongoing material to discover about it.  So that's where I'm hopeful this goes, in terms of an ongoing roleplay manner.

[Valdezi]

In response to the purpose of the OP, the what now question - you've taken Ostingele, a hotbed of piracy and partially driven out the pirate element.

Now you rule. Ostingele is a choke system between Intaki, Stacmon, Syndicate and Placid high-sec. There a many and various battles to be had over it and a number of rp stories being made just within a few jumps.

We like having you; stick around.

[Cheiftan]

I agree with Mammel.

I would like to see the area turned into a major free trade/space frontier, a place where the econemy can prosper under like minded IC ideals.

While many of you may see these events as the end of a campaign i would beg to differ, and go as far to say all this has potentialy been the start of somthing great.

[Senn Typhos]

Well, we're not interested in such arguments - we'd definitely be interested in some actual commercially-progressive roleplay (ie making money with ideologically revelant schemes and undertakings) and we're happy to cooperate with other NRDS/freespace/independent-minded entities prepared to accept our hand of truce and work together and improve the profits and freedoms of all.

It'd be nice to see some real interaction between factions. Usually the most action I've seen is milita groups in 2v2 or 2v3 engagements that they brag about for months after. A negotiations meeting, some businesslike discussion, these things would be nice, and I'm still hoping someone will actually work towards the RP sphere instead of just trying to "win" the game of Intaki. Until then it's at least been amusing locking down the system with an Ishtar and a Rifter.

So lets make it happen. I've got to admit I got pretty bored with the militia politics of endless killmail bragging on the amarrian front also - by all means lets think about some better options.

See that's good to hear. I feel there's a lot of untapped potential in Intaki-based RP. There's a reason people are drawn to it, it forces together cultures, nations, organizations and individuals who otherwise wouldn't even speak to one another. Yes, it causes conflict, but I think by and large, RP interaction stems from conflicts - groups collaborating against other groups, two groups at war, you get the idea.

The problem is that for all the time people spend saying that they're RPing something in Intaki, I've yet to see any real result. ILF's tower made the news, that was a plus. But so far it seems that the people interested in making RP roads in Intaki will start something up, say they'll go through with it, and then let it slowly degrade into something that literally only occurred in invisible IC terms. I'm not suggesting IC fluff isn't good, it's a necessary part of EVE. But basing conflicts solely on that, I think, just snowballs into the aforementioned "invisible control points" scheme.

Admittedly, there's already the problem of the militias and the facwar system making it a point of contention between Federation/State loyalist RPers. They're each going to cling to the types of victories CCP will allow them to have, but that really doesn't make an impressive display.

My point is, I think interaction between characters should be more than a game of "yes I did, no you didn't." ANSH has been working for that for a few months, and we'll continue working for it. I'm just hoping that SF and the other entities moving into Placid don't make the same mistakes. It's all well and good to gesture on the IGS and add to the RP immersion, but that stuff is supposed to be the veneer OVER the actual interaction - at least in my mind. You don't add to the mix by taking quips on the IGS to be equivalent to successes in the game.

Of course that really isn't up to me, it's up to the other entities moving into Placid. So, here's hoping. Based on past experiences, I can't say I'm optimistic, but, I'm never optimistic, so lets just see what happens.

[Valdezi]

Would you mind clarifying what you mean here, Senn?

[Milo Caman]

Have avoided posting in this thread so far. Would have preferred to keep it that way, but oh well:

The 'TLDR' I walked away with from Senn's post:

People start things in space in Viriette, and then due to a number of factors, they go silent/die out/whatever. However, people continue to claim that x, y and z are happening there.
I'll be honest, I haven't had the time or bandwidth to be active in-space around Intaki in person recently, so things may have changed in the last two weeks:

When AI moved into Placid, things were pretty damn quiet, we could idle in Intaki for hours and see bugger all ILF/IRED/Other people claiming to have a foothold there. This changed when we started making noise. Things were good.
However, I do not think you could claim that Intaki had a thriving market. I recall someone denying there was an economic crises there at one point. Seeding a lowsec area with goods is great. Marking them up 15-20% over regional average, in an area that doesn't see much market activity in general is not.

Soter's Agoze hub has worked wonders, as the stuff that's being seeded is selling *below* regional averages. The volumes my orders have been shifting on a regional basis have nearly doubled since it set up, although that may be a coincidence.

[Valdezi]

Sorry just to clarify, with the Kim Jong-Il pic, are you saying that the Placid economy is struggling (which has always been the official ILF line) or that it isn't? (The line many Federals have argued)

I'm not the ILF business guy, I take care of the other side of things, but why is marking things 15% above average 'not good' intrinsically? Everything that the ILF puts on the market sells. Everything. In fact, we have difficulty keeping up with demand, especially in certain high demand items. I can't say I fully understand your critique.

As for our lack of appearance in Intaki, many of our active pilots are AU TZ. For my part, I never see you guys either.

The ILF's major claims in Intaki RP are:

1) Stimulating the Economy - A verifiable claim, even if you don't like the way we're doing it. We move massive amounts of ships and mods.

2) Being anti-pirate - Another verifiable claim. Our killboard backs this up.

3) Politically lobbying for an Intaki Free State - Something that has no in-game allegory, so can only be done in words. I'm not sure how you can begrudge us that.

I summary, while I wasn't sure Senn's critique was aimed at us (I guess so, now) I'm not sure it's justified. Having lived in Intaki for quite some time now, I feel a lot more qualified to comment on the goings on there than most.

Also, apologies to the OPer for derail, but there's an extent to which this goes to SF's Placid operations and context for Placid as a whole.

[John Revenent]

Have avoided posting in this thread so far. Would have preferred to keep it that way, but oh well:

The 'TLDR' I walked away with from Senn's post:

People start things in space in Viriette, and then due to a number of factors, they go silent/die out/whatever. However, people continue to claim that x, y and z are happening there.
I'll be honest, I haven't had the time or bandwidth to be active in-space around Intaki in person recently, so things may have changed in the last two weeks:

When AI moved into Placid, things were pretty damn quiet, we could idle in Intaki for hours and see bugger all ILF/IRED/Other people claiming to have a foothold there. This changed when we started making noise. Things were good.
However, I do not think you could claim that Intaki had a thriving market. I recall someone denying there was an economic crises there at one point. Seeding a lowsec area with goods is great. Marking them up 15-20% over regional average, in an area that doesn't see much market activity in general is not.

Soter's Agoze hub has worked wonders, as the stuff that's being seeded is selling *below* regional averages. The volumes my orders have been shifting on a regional basis have nearly doubled since it set up, although that may be a coincidence.

I-RED moved out of Intaki when AI moved in, we were in Delve/Querious.. then Black Rise during that time. As for Intaki Market I am sure its thriving for the area now since Intaki now sees 20-50+ in local most times of the day.

[Milo Caman]

The Kim Jong-Il Picture was in reference to something an individual said a while ago which popped up on IRC the other night, I found it amusing.

I wasn't making a jab at the ILF specifically, A number of groups that operate in Viriette do this. heck, AI are probably guilty of it to a degree. However, I'll address your points:

1) I am a regular on the Placid Regional Market, you might shift huge amounts of ships and mods, but they shift significantly more slowly than anywhere else in the region. Who buys a Brutix for 25mISK when they can get one for 21mISK two jumps away? Heck, who buys a Brutix for 25mISK? Your market efficiency in relation to the rest of Placid is horrendous.

2) I don't really want to start on Killboards, because it will inevitably turn into a pissing match, and I don't want to see that happen.

3) I don't really take issue with this. My main gripe is with people saying they're doing things ingame when they evidently aren't, Although this is *less* of an issue now than it was two months ago.

Also in regards to last bit: Split topic for a general Placid thread?

I-RED moved out of Intaki when AI moved in, we were in Delve/Querious.. then Black Rise during that time. As for Intaki Market I am sure its thriving for the area now since Intaki now sees 20-50+ in local most times of the day.

I don't feel raw local count is relevant. Give me a demographic and a breakdown of who's in local for how long and what they're actually doing, and you might have something. I regularly work the regional market in Placid and see no evidence of a 'thriving' Intaki market. perhaps our definitions of the word are different.

[John Revenent]

1) I am a regular on the Placid Regional Market, you might shift huge amounts of ships and mods, but they shift significantly more slowly than anywhere else in the region. Who buys a Brutix for 25mISK when they can get one for 21mISK two jumps away? Heck, who buys a Brutix for 25mISK? Your market efficiency in relation to the rest of Placid is horrendous.

We sell mods and ships in Heyd for 30%-120% above regional average when items 1-5 jumps away are cheaper, and thus far have made 4billion isk profit. The people who have the isk will spend it instead of going 1 jump to get a cheaper item if they can buy everything in the one station instead of jumping system to system.. even more so in lowsec. aka the lazy people with plump wallets, I am sure the ILF are making enough off I-RED pilots alone (I have to jump in 2-3 billion isk in mods just to keep up with needs.)