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[Ciarente]

So, everyone is quite clingy to their character's original bodies, and apprehensive about the cloning devices. Are we sure we wouldn't prefer a universe without capsuleers and space captains instead?

Actually, Cia lost her original body about two years ago. It was a Big Deal for her; she got over it.

If I say now that she lost her original body in capsuleer school, I have to go back and retcon and erase a number of months of her character development.

And that of the people around her at the time - who are characters not played by me.

[Xav Serise]

Newbie question: What outlooks have prohibitions or taboos against not being "original?" From my perspective, the idea that every capsuleer gets killed/cloned as a final step in the process seems to make sense. How else is one to know if that particular individual could survive it in future, less controlled circumstances if they can't even make it in a lab?

[Ciarente]

Newbie question: What outlooks have prohibitions or taboos against not being "original?" From my perspective, the idea that every capsuleer gets killed/cloned as a final step in the process seems to make sense. How else is one to know if that particular individual could survive it in future, less controlled circumstances if they can't even make it in a lab?

My understanding is that both Amarr and Achuran culture view the cloned individual as having lost their 'soul' and therefore not being truly alive. For RPers of characters from those cultures, as well as others where player interpretation has created a similar attitude in a local area, being able to preserve one's 'original' body is therefore quite important, and they will adjust their IG behaviour to make sure they only ever risk a jump clone.

In addition, there are a number of interpretations of the cloning process that argue that female clones are infertile (clones are biomass lattice with your DNA injected into them; while male bodies continue to produce sperm throughout their life and DNA colonisation of the clone's testes will enable it to produce appropriate genetic sperm, female bodies are born with all the eggs they'll ever have and so a female clone-body's ovaries colonised with the new owner's DNA cannot produce new eggs.) which makes keeping one's original body a Big Deal for some female pilots.

Personally, it's not the actual decision about 'we're all clones' that I have a problem with. If it had been the case when I'd started playing, I would have rolled with it. But for people who have integrated the idea of 'original bodies' into the RP, accepting this as 'how it always was' required a substantial erasure of character history.

[Ammentio Oinkelmar]

Actually, quite a massive chunk of game mechanic starts to make sense from a certain point of view, including no crew / no visible NPC traffic, etc.

Good post.

I'm wondering, does it make sense that Roden is a capsuleer? How can someone who's not bound by the law be elected as the President?

This appears also to put some limitations on capsuleer politics - if the law doesn't apply to us, then all the talk about constitution, freedom of religion etc. would be kind of redundant.

[Julianus Soter]

Well, to be honest, the process of becoming a capsuleer had always been left ambiguous. As we all know from roleplaying for the past decade or so, where CCP leaves ambiguities, it is likely they will later fill in the gaps, as they see fit.

They do this with factions all the time, often resetting storylines or reasons for certain alliances existing, or by guiding storylines to the way they want them to conclude.

This impacts often hundreds of characters in ways that are subtle and obvious, but we have to work with it.

When viewing ambiguities in the backstory, that's always been a cue for me to be hands-off about it. Convo example: "How are capsuleers made? Like all the other capsuleers, of course. Why're you asking me about it? "

*shrugs*

[Casiella]

Others, like Kirith Kodachi, have previously explored the idea of podding as part of training. In a military context, it makes a lot of sense, to be honest. I'd also think that, in PF, non-player capsuleers could choose to submit themselves to the law in exchange for some sort of additional resources, like those who remain within the formal navies (cf. The Empyrean Age).

When I read the documents, I don't read them as saying that our characters are legally dead and can have no possessions outside of the CONCORD economy, nor that they literally have no connections back to their original factions (cf. "Her Painted Selves"). Rather, I take the documents for what they say:

The document is somewhat redundant for capsuleers, who enjoy these freedoms and others even greater.

All this document does is formalize that reality, and as such, is entirely redundant and pointless.

The seven tribes of the Republic have agreed to blanket-issue sponsorships as an attempt to encourage loyalty and cooperation.

Even the Amarr Empire is willing to acknowledge the reality of capsuleer freedom and autonomy.

[Louella Dougans]

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1518387&page=2#42

CCP input.

[Morwen Lagann]

(obligatory disclaimer: this is just my personal opinion and shouldn't be considered canon. Although I'll ask the storyline team to have a look at this thread and elaborate a bit more, should they see fit to do so.)

Until Abraxas or Dropbear (or someone else on the storyline team) posts to the thread with something official, I don't think CCP posts in the thread are worth paying attention to. I don't think the people who have issues with this change are interested in speculation from CCP, and want a hard answer.

[Casiella]

Disagree: non-definitive CCP posts may not provide a final answer, but they're certainly "worth paying attention to" as least as much as any of ours.

[Saede Riordan]

stuff

Well...now that is interesting.

[Ken]

stuff

Yep, that all makes sense.  It also robs everything we do in game of having any meaning, imo.  We're all blue-pill cogs in the Matrix of EVE.  While I recognize the evidence that can be used to support that theory, I find the "capsuleers-as-tools/monkeys-with-laser-eyes" version of New Eden to be rather distasteful and disrespectful to the players (primarily the RPers) of the game.  If it ever comes to light that this was CCP's true intent with the setting, I'll be quitting EVE.

[Julianus Soter]

I think folks have a rather narrow view of the playing field, and are ignoring several agents attempting to control the situation in New Eden.

The Factions, and CONCORD, need Capsuleers to maintain a competitive advantage against the Sansha, Sleepers, and Rogue Drones. However, the factions and CONCORD are also distrustful of Capsuleer motivations, and rightfully so. Thus, they bar the general population from playing with the internal politics and operations of the factions themselves, except through registered and carefully regulated Mission Agents. This keeps their defenses strong on the internal side of things.

Now, of course, Capsuleers can still wage war with certain factions. They can raid faction shipping, stymie  faction war operations, even make factions lose territory. These factions set these pilots to negative standings and bar them from accessing their high-security space, at least as much as they are able.

So, you have two walls against capsuleer influence into Factions themselves, both on the friendly and non-friendly side of things. CCP has given us the opportunity to play as the independent, CONCORD-regulated capsuleers, who are licensed via accredited capsuleer schools throughout New Eden. This isn't a matter of debate, it's simply the design of the game. As such, we have significant liberties, but also restrictions, in our abilities to act.

Ask yourself this question: each capsuleer is effectively an interest group with massive potential influence and power. Does it not make sense, then, to channel this power towards external threats, away from the internal workings of your Faction, where you've carefully built up an architecture of power over the past four centuries? Capsuleers are too chaotic and rogue to intergrate directly into that schema, at least the independent, non-indoctrinated and internally-regulated ones anyway.

[Matariki Rain]

Not just a response to the cloning thing, and probably tending a teensy bit towards "you're breaking my EVE: I'll take my toys and go home", but:

It feels to me like some of the recent and proposed changes turn IC-EVE into... a game.

This might be a cunning way of matching the internal world of EVE with the external reality that it is a game, but from within the immersion it had previously been feasible to have a much deeper and richer relation with the cultures and events which made EVE's "world". We have previously bridged the gap between what the game can show us and what we plausibly thought there should be with imagination, speculation, and the infinitely-malleable description available to us in text-based roleplay. I will grieve its loss if that goes: if the introduction of Incarna and the shown-GUI world of station life means that what can be shown becomes all that there is.

[Julianus Soter]

I'm still a bit flabbergasted that the increase of information available to roleplayers, including visual cues and architecture via Incarna, can be seen as detrimental to roleplay. Can anyone care to explain this perspective?

[Casiella]

While I'm unable to answer Soter's question, since I share his curiosity, I'd also note that I don't see the same dire situation that Mata does. When I joined EVE, a lot of the PF already seemed explicitly designed to support the game design. Cloning, semi insane capsuleers, etc., all to try to reduce the necessary hand waving and invocations of Bellisario's Maxim. Sure, they still exist (submarine physics), but other games have it worse and CCP at least makes an effort.

It's a big cluster. If your character came along with marginal differences, that's okay.