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Author Topic: Everyone is a clone  (Read 12587 times)

Z.Sinraali

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Re: Everyone is a clone
« Reply #15 on: 29 May 2011, 17:28 »

Clonejumping would be one thing.

HURR LET'S THROW AWAY THE ORIGINAL is entirely different.
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The assumption that other people are acting in good faith is the single most important principle underpinning human civilization.

Ember Vykos

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Re: Everyone is a clone
« Reply #16 on: 29 May 2011, 18:00 »

Clonejumping would be one thing.

HURR LET'S THROW AWAY THE ORIGINAL is entirely different.

Not if that's the only way you could become a capsuleer(nowadays). So perhaps going with our we are the lucky few who can not only handle the presures of being a capsuleer, but also we're the luckier ones who's bodies didn't reject the implants/die while having them put in.
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[spoiler][/spoiler]

Current active RP character(s) - Kairelle
Past RP characters - Ember Vykos, Simca Develon

Vieve

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Re: Everyone is a clone
« Reply #17 on: 29 May 2011, 18:06 »

Considering that there are only two existing characters of mine that this would impact, and my ignoring this won't screw up anybody's RP ... yeah, I'm going to ignore it and keep their backstories as is.
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Z.Sinraali

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Re: Everyone is a clone
« Reply #18 on: 29 May 2011, 18:43 »

Clonejumping would be one thing.

HURR LET'S THROW AWAY THE ORIGINAL is entirely different.

Not if that's the only way you could become a capsuleer(nowadays). So perhaps going with our we are the lucky few who can not only handle the presures of being a capsuleer, but also we're the luckier ones who's bodies didn't reject the implants/die while having them put in.

The original line doesn't even claim that that's the case. It's just taking your original body and chucking it in the reprocessor. Why would you do that? What is that supposed to add to the PF?

Actually, you know what, I'm just going to chalk it up to Aura being an asshole. Remember when she used to laugh at you when you got podded?
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The assumption that other people are acting in good faith is the single most important principle underpinning human civilization.

Ellis Croix

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Re: Everyone is a clone
« Reply #19 on: 29 May 2011, 23:11 »

If thou art pained by any external thing, it is not this that disturbs thee, but thy own judgment about it. And it is in thy power to wipe out this judgment now.
-Marcus Aurelius
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Sinjin Mokk

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Re: Everyone is a clone
« Reply #20 on: 29 May 2011, 23:22 »

Actually...

This sparks something...

orange

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Re: Everyone is a clone
« Reply #21 on: 30 May 2011, 00:11 »

Actually, you know what, I'm just going to chalk it up to Aura being an asshole. Remember when she used to laugh at you when you got podded?
The cake is a lie!

No, really why not have the AI be twisted and try to mess with the "subject's" mind?
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Julianus Soter

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Re: Everyone is a clone
« Reply #22 on: 30 May 2011, 00:13 »

Works for me.

The problem with roleplay is that retcons can and do throw things out the window. Best to try to roll with them.

The difficulty with claiming that 'back in the day' things were different is the obvious discontinuity. Player A made character 2 months ago. Player B made a character with the much-anticipated Incarna expansion, eager to roleplay a minmatar Sebiestor tribesman. Player B's Character talks to Player A's Character, which describes the backstory of his character, etc. Apparently Player A's character is still the original body as he's never done any pilot-pilot combat.

Player B's Character is naturally confused as Aura explicitely told him in the tutorial phase of his capsuleer career that all pilots loose their originals.

Player B's character wonders why Player A's character did not experience this. Player A's character claims, "we did it differently back then". Player B's character feels outraged that his rights were infringed upon because of a difference of two months. Player's B's Character blames Minmatar Republic/CONCORD/Empires/insertfactionhere for the massive policy change and the lies he was told.

So, where does this leave us? Simply because we were fortunate enough to have found eve years ago, people that come after us have massive impositions placed upon them because of a retcon we refused to adopt? Or is there going to be some in-character, observable "policy shift" in Empire Space about capsuleers, where the Original Hosts must be destroyed for capsuleer participation to be complete? Would this then incite resentment against the factions and CONCORD regime?
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Merahl

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Re: Everyone is a clone
« Reply #23 on: 30 May 2011, 01:14 »

I think it sounds more symbolic. In most myths, in order for a hero to gain godhood, he or she had to die first. It's the ascension that set them apart, you couldn't just wave a magic wand or whatever. They had to make the ultimate sacrifice for it.
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GoGo Yubari

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Re: Everyone is a clone
« Reply #24 on: 30 May 2011, 06:11 »

Yeah, I like it. The journey into the Underworld and all that.
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Hamish Grayson

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Re: Everyone is a clone
« Reply #25 on: 30 May 2011, 06:49 »

They weren't giving out these certificates back in 2004, but I still pretty much understood that legally you had no ties to your nation of origin or were no longer considered a citizen by them even back then.    You were considered your own tiny sovereign entity under the jurisdiction of CONCORD.

*Shrugs*  It just seemed obvious to me after reading all the stuff about how CONCORD worked.
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Seriphyn

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Re: Everyone is a clone
« Reply #26 on: 30 May 2011, 07:06 »

So, everyone is quite clingy to their character's original bodies, and apprehensive about the cloning devices. Are we sure we wouldn't prefer a universe without capsuleers and space captains instead? ;)
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Voice Void

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Re: Everyone is a clone
« Reply #27 on: 30 May 2011, 07:34 »

Quote
Why would the empires create these 'demigods' to roam the stars freely?
Why would they create something that can come and compete with them?
Why would they kill the people that they have trained?

Jeepers, this whole new development can get pretty restrictive and grimdark when you put your mind to it.

But basically it means, there is nothing that you can own, outside of what you have in your hangars.

 Actually, quite a massive chunk of game mechanic starts to make sense from a certain point of view, including no crew / no visible NPC traffic, etc.

 Basically:

 Using an quasi-alien technology, you create a weapon that is overpowered, sentient, and (in most cases) has a mentality of your average criminal / teenager from a street gang / whatever. Quoting Hellgremlin, "a monkey with laser eyes". Of course, trained loyal officers would be much better, but only 1 monkey in a kazillion fits for the implantation, so we don't have a choice, and neither has the monkey.

 How do you control these things, if there are thousands of them? How to prevent the monkeys from burning down the jungle?

 Give it an illusion of freedom. Make it see only what it is allowed to see. i.e. "a banana on a tree from 50 m away only, marked by a red cross." Severely limit all contacts with baseline population or prohibit this contact altogether. No direct contact with its own crew. Separate egger-only areas in station. Separate market. A built-in device somewhere that, when activated, will generate that nice message "we're sorry, something happened (c) during a recloning process", etc. You'll never know if something really happened or this exact rabid monkey was terminated by the laser implant owner.


 Make these things brew in their own juice, so to say. Unleash them in the wilderness to clear the pirates in droves, to colonize planets, to build their imaginary empires that last for an year, to fuel the =real= economy by providing countless manufacturing jobs. Make it so it's in fact totally impossible for them to do ANYTHING against the planetside populations of the empires except mopping up a few thousand unlucky red shirts here and there (marked by a Big Red Cross for easier identification). Control and direct it while letting the poor thing revel in its godhood.

 Then, when you had enough, just press the Big Red Button and sent in the navy to occupy the area and to clean up / board all the dead capital ship husks.

 It's Matrix meets Ender's game.

  For extra sauce, make it so that the contact with the few =real= loyal trained officers who happened to be suitable for the pod and are legally employed by their respective governments, is also severely limited. Because they know what all this experiment is really about, they aren't former convicts or random civilians,  and they don't play the Game.

 :P
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Seriphyn

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Re: Everyone is a clone
« Reply #28 on: 30 May 2011, 07:44 »

An illusion is a good way to put it. The Sansha events have the capsuleers apparently as heroes, but its obvious the empires know hundreds of more facts than the pilots think they do. Ante was like that as well.
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Inara Subaka

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Re: Everyone is a clone
« Reply #29 on: 30 May 2011, 08:03 »

Actually, you know what, I'm just going to chalk it up to Aura being an asshole. Remember when she used to laugh at you when you got podded?

Didn't she only do that when you first got podded? Basically laughing at you for losing your first clone and hoping you survived the first traumatizing experience of emergency cloning? (it's been a while, so my memory could be fuzzy)
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