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[Havohej]

...if it can really be called a bloc?  I dunno.  Anyway!

I want a more complex faction for the Minmatars.  Just like how you lot used to have some rich and interesting Rival House/house supporter roleplay stuff going on, I wish we had Rival Tribe/Tribe Supporter stuff.  The whole slavery thing is just such a strong point of common ground, there's no major/visible Minmatar RP group trying to push that sort of stuff.  Partially off-topic for this thread, I know.

If somebody (*cough*forumadmin*cough*) starts that thread, I'd be all over it.

How come it's all so homogenous?  There's elements in PF that suggest some pretty strong rivalries between different tribes, yet unlike how there used to be (still are?) corps in the Amarr bloc that were loyal to one house in particular I've never seen a Tribe-oriented corp outside of small Thukker groups, most of which wither and die or go generally inactive due to some apparent lack of interest before long.  I mean, not even digging through the deep back pages of the recruitment forum on EVE-O can I find such an animal.

I suppose there's RE-AW which requires a certain level of Brutor Tribe standings, but I've never seen them to present themselves as a "Brutor-oriented" corporation in any other respect so I don't think that's their 'thing'.

[Casiella]

I drew up plans a while back for a Sebiestor tribal corp, but never launched it due to all sorts of reasons.

While at first glance the Minmatars might seem to have all sorts of love and unity, I don't know that that really rings true upon deeper examination.

From an OOC perspective: well, "death to the slavers" sure makes for a really useful handle for new RPers, and it has enough of a compelling quality even to maintain the interest of some experienced RPers. Plus, the obvious "excuse" it provides for lots of pew.

But even IC: okay, so you have the Big Bad just across the way, and capsuleers doing the EVE equivalent of the Battle of Britain to keep it out. Now, back in the Republic, we have a huge change in form of government (parliamentary -> tribal republic), some giant sekrit project out in the wildlands, and likely tons of behind-closed-doors scheming. Nobody wants outsiders to know about it, of course, because the Empire would try again to infiltrate and take advantage of that, but likely six of the seven tribes (excepting <em>maybe</em> the Starkmanir ) have all sorts of little plans working.

And let's not forget the much-neglected nexus between the RSS, the Angel Cartel, and the Thukkers. I seem to recall some hints that the boundaries occasionally get murky, and the Angel epic arc seems to refer to that as well.

* Casiella takes a breath so as not to monopolize the thread.

[Esna Pitoojee]

I think part of this can be attributed to the honogenous nature of the Minmatar tribal PF itself. Aside from the Thukkers, the differences between the tribes have never really been elaborated on - "Brutors teach their kids to fend for themselves, while Vherokior teach them the strength of friendship and allies" (or something similar, I just made that up) doesn't appear in Minmatar PF a lot. In fact, lately the PF (Eders running everything from the shadows, reuniting of the Starkmanir, true loyalty of some of the Nefantar, even the Thukker/Rep. Fleet attack on Skarkon) seems to be painting over what differences there are.

Compare this to the Amarr PF, where not only do the Amarr houses often compete (bloodily so), they have on occasion actually defied the Emperor/Empress (Khanid II, Uriam Kador's invasion of Gallente space).

[Havohej]

@Esna: Well, you see brief mentions of stereotypes between tribes here and there, like people generally feeling distrustful toward Krusuals, for instance, or some of the stuff in the Scars chron iirc.  But so much time and attention has been spent on Amarr plots and backstory by CCP and by comparison so little on Minmatar in general (where the fuck is our goddamn Tribal Assembly news item?).  Still, there's been some interesting, in depth stuff out of the Minmatar RP crowd (Clan Shakor pdf document, for example) that it just seems.. off to me, somehow, that nobody's picked a particular Tribe to run with instead of the Minmatar melting pot of Let My People Go (dunno if anyone's noticed yet, but Let My People Go isn't DF1AS's primary 'theme').

@Casi: WTB details on Angel epic arc.

I dunno.. is it a matter of not being presented with more inter-Tribal grit in PF as Esna suggested?  I'd love to see Sebiestor-centric corps, or any other tribe for that matter, springing up, even if they're pro-Republic and not stirring shit against the other tribes.. just cultivate and build a tribal identity even if they have to make up 90% of it.

[Casiella]

I'm screenshotting the arc as I work through it. Maybe I should get off my butt and finish the arc... stinking nullsec bubble camps.

Anyway, we do know a few things about tribal stereotypes (e.g. the Krusuals are basically the Bothans of EVE). But we don't know too much about their motivations and political drivers the way we do about regions or ethnicities IRL.

Side note: Did you know... the Brutors were based on the Maori tribes of New Zealand, not Africans? (See The Art of EVE.)

[Ulphus]

Side note: Did you know... the Brutors were based on the Maori tribes of New Zealand, not Africans? (See The Art of EVE.)

Well, maybe. I live in New Zealand, so I know a bit about the Maori tribes by osmosis.

The Sebiestor clan Atamahara that Matariki and I have somewhat fleshed out is based probably 50% on Maori patterns, 40% on Icelandic pre-christian patterns (as presented in the Sagas) and 10% on what little I know about the arabic clan/tribe structure.

It seems to work quite well, and I think the few other characters who have encountered it have enjoyed it.

[Casiella]

Well, as player-driven content, that may be. But I meant that CCP's inspiration for "big black tribesmen" came from someplace other than the African continent.

Personally, I'd like to see the Norse touches get played up a bit more, though I recognize that (a) even though we have some Norse references, the Minmatars are not actually Space Vikings, and (b) other players have successfully and interestingly drawn on other influences.

Also note that the Thukkers aren't the only Minmatar tribe with a nomadic tradition, cf. the Sebiestor (and maybe the Vherokior), per the character creation stuff.

[Ulphus]

Well, as player-driven content, that may be. But I meant that CCP's inspiration for "big black tribesmen" came from someplace other than the African continent.

Oh, yes, I don't doubt that, and I think I was trying to say I'd seen the parrallels already which informed the choices we made about our Player clan.

[Ciarente]

The little bit of thinking I've done about my Vherokior's character's clan combined some aspects of what I know about the Navajo people, and some aspects of some Indigenous nations of northern Australia, especially the use of ritual wounding as a justice system.

[Casiella]

So, just musing here (don't take anything too seriously): what would folks think about tribal-based RP corps?

[Ulphus]

So, just musing here (don't take anything too seriously): what would folks think about tribal-based RP corps?

Well, I've been playing that the Tribe is a rather distant thing. I have strong ties to my clan, but there are billions of Sebiestor, so I don't have a huge tie to them over anyone else.

They're sufficiently distant that I don't necessarily trust them over anyone else, and sufficiently numerous that I don't think there's a single direction they're all pointed in. I mean, what counts as Sebiestor politics as distinct from Brutor politics?

And given the numbers of Sebiestor that I run into who shoot at me, it would be difficult to justify trusting someone just because they were Sebiestor.

[Myyona]

Though I do not do it often, I do try to promote my alternate thoughts on being a Minmatar when the opportunity arise.

Myyona is a builder and constructor and very little warrior. In fact, she detest warmongering and often blame the Butor tribe for being too rush to violence and committing murder of Minmatar slaves under the reasoning that being dead is better then being a slave. That sentiment is disgusting to Myyona who feels it is too cheap to claim to be the master of life and death when it is not your own death that is on the line. Especially when these statements come from "immortal" capsuleers she become furious. In general, she does not see violence as a long term solution to anything but more like the work of opportunists who are using the war as excuse to strengthen their own position. She often refer to these kind of people as "primates".

Of course she would like the Amarr to stop using slaves, but she is quite aware that slavery of different kinds exist in all the major empires and only the narrow minded or hypocrites ignore that fact. She is more concerned about what is going to happen with the slaves when they return home than fighting the Amarr. What is the point saving slaves if all you can offer is a life of starvation, poverty and misery in its place, is her major concern.

Myyona liked Midular more than Shakor and are not particular fond of the Elders attack on the Amarr, spending ISK that should have been used to develop the Republic on tools of war instead and then leave and hide and letting others clean up the mess after them.

[Myyona]

@Casi: WTB details on Angel epic arc.

I am working as fast as I can. 

[Laerise [PIE]]

Here's one thing that always made me wonder to no end

U'K and EM (not to exclude the rest of the minis, I just don't know all your corptickers) have never come to major blows with each other, at least from what I know.
With the whole "1ISK for Midulars head" business and other things, how come you minis remain so peacefull?

P.S.: And when will we get a big show of fireworks from you, if ever? I need to reserve a seat and buy popcorn

[Casiella]

Myyona, what corp / alliance are you in? Just curious, as much of your stance sounds similar to EM's.