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[Ken]

The Gallente politician characters on IGS have inspired a rising threadnaught here on the Backstage.  There are a lot of varied opinions in the community and we've actually managed to have a conversation about them without being modded to death yet.

In the (ironic) spirit of democracy, let's put it to a vote.  What is your stance on the concept of using characters that are technically capsuleers to roleplay non-capsuleers like the "politicians" that have appeared on IGS?  Poll results display only after you vote, and vote changing is enabled.

The relevant IGS threads (as many as I could find) are linked below, including the "Scope" article spin-offs:

Salutations from the Senate Bureau http://eve-search.com/thread/1408028

ILF condemns Nationalist Party; calls for secession http://eve-search.com/thread/1411140

[Scope] Placid colonists anxious about Intaki secessionism http://eve-search.com/thread/1412864

Ikosikai Roundtable Wrap-Up http://eve-search.com/thread/1413487

To the inhabitants of the planet Intaki Prime http://eve-search.com/thread/1416630

[Scope] Intaki Liberation Front propaganda holovid causes outrage http://eve-search.com/thread/1418776

[Scope] BREAKING: Ex-FDU pilot "declares war" against the Nationalists http://eve-search.com/thread/1419010

To be a pilot, alike a god http://eve-search.com/thread/1419367

[Benjamin Shepherd]

I like it, but won't participate in it. I appreciate that there are levels of RP still being filled, and it makes for great forum RP.

[Ken]

Possible additional consideration is whether you think the concept COULD work if it were done better than it is being done by the "politicians" or if you think the concept would be invalid if it weren't done as well as the "politicians" are doing it.  I think there is some room for a conditional approval/disapproval based on quality.  Won't make additional poll responses for these, but if you fall into that category, feel free to post.

[Julianus Soter]

Are the politicians your doing, Ken? Otherwise, why have a poll to test public opinion on another player's work?

[Ken]

Because it seemed like a fair way to cut through the arguments and counterarguments to see where the forum stands overall.  Do you question the validity of everything?  

Not trying to amass x number of "pro" votes to rub in your face or anything.

Edit:  Sorry, that was kind of bitchy.  A better answer as to "why":  We've debated the matter quite a bit.  Votes/polls usually follow debates and can provide a certain degree of catharsis for the community.

[Casiella]

Jules, I can state categorically I have no connection to the characters in question, and I'm interested in the poll here.

[Morwen Lagann]

As with most matters on the IGS, I have no particular reason to participate or care about it, so I'm following along almost purely for entertainment purposes.

So far, the most entertaining part of the whole thing for me has been how bunched up Soter's panties are getting over this.

[Ghost Hunter]

POLLS I LOVE POLLS polls are awesome

Also these guys are either taking a dive into risky water with what they're doing, or the most clever trolls I have seen all year. Good show either way.

[Seriphyn]

People know my stance but I'm just posting 'cause I changed my avatar yo.

[Julianus Soter]

This sets a rather stupid precedent in my opinion. While I disagree with whowever formulated the idea, I wouldn't want there to be a damn poll about it on some third party forum.

Doesn't this have a chilling effect for roleplay across the IGS? The possibility of having the chattering classes take a 'vote' on whatever topic of the day seems to go against most principles of common decency.

Oh, look, that person made a character. Let's take a vote to see if we like the player's choices in fashion.

Votes inevitably devolve into popularity contests and have no place on a forum such as this.

[Seriphyn]

most principles of common decency

There's the issue. It's not RL politics we're dealing with, it's a video game. Taking it to that level of seriousness? Something I wouldn't waste one's energy on.

I mean it's just make believe. Why's it matter so much?

[Ken]

The possibility of having the chattering classes take a 'vote' on whatever topic of the day seems to go against most principles of common decency.

Have you ever seen what passes for "news" in the real world?

This sets a rather stupid precedent in my opinion. While I disagree with whowever formulated the idea, I wouldn't want there to be a damn poll about it on some third party forum.

I think a poll is precisely what was taking place in the 100+ reply discussion thread, we simply used lots of words to clothe our naked opinions on the topic.  So if your objection is based on the idea that passing judgment on a particular behavior or action in the game or EVE-O forums, you're as guilty as the rest of us of violating "most principles of common decency".

Also, I'm genuinely weary of your tireless polemic and somewhat regret having waded back into this discussion.

[Julianus Soter]

It's interesting to note that, instead of refuting any of the substantive points of the discussion we've thus far had, you felt it necessary to resort to a 'vote' on a out of character forum regarding what my character has been participating in on an In-character forum.

It rather surrenders the initiative, doesn't it? If I am wrong, I want to be proved wrong, rather than judged wrong by a consensus of folks that are already emotionally invested in the events on the IGS.

The purpose of a debate, on the internet or otherwise, isn't that we have a chance to voice our opinions of 'yes' 'no and 'maybe' on the crisis de jour. It's a matter of ascertaining the truth behind or justice regarding a particular topic. To those goals, fact, evidence, and reason should preside.

What is the purpose of such a vote? If enough stack up in one side of the spectrum, perhaps the moderators will start deleting posts of the dissenting opinion?

It seems to me that the purpose of this thread is to reassure the OP that he really is on the side of 'right' because enough people 'like' something, even though they don't RP the faction in question, or have any desire to participate in the situation at hand.

[Ken]

This poll does not regard only what you or your character have done.  It attempts to encompass the entire issue and provides everyone a means of stating a clear qualitative opinion.

As for proving you wrong, myself and others have made several counterarguments.  I believe that you do not read them, do not understand them, or choose to ignore them.  I believe this because your replies usually fail to provide me the impression that you have absorbed and evaluated the opinions of others and very often attempt to deflect or redefine the argument rather than actually engaging in it.

I'm not going to pursue a debate ad infinitum.  The poll is a means to quiet it and provide focus for any future debate.  I understand why that may be undesirable to you.

[Julianus Soter]

It seems to me that you haven't read Elsebeth's points, Ken. Perhaps we should start copy-pasting them?

It appears that the only reason this thing has continued as long as it has was because there was an intense vacuum within the Gallente RP community. If any semblance of the old guard of the Gallente RP'ers were around, this wouldnt've have left page one on the original thread.

Into this vacuum, players with their own views on how things should be done have marched in and set out what they wanted things to be. Well, I won't lie down on the ground, and crawl towards them to beg for relevance in the world of roleplay. Sorry that this seems to cut against your plans, Ken.