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[Senn Typhos]

If this has been discussed elsewhere or doesn't belong here, I apologize in advance, but since its pertinent information to my recent RP, I feel I should bring it up.

I have noticed that in many cases, words in our current lexicon, even words from "original earth's" mythologies, have survived into New Eden. But I'm not certain how to consider more pedestrian correlations between the language of the future and this one - case in point, what is there to be said about the music of the universe?

Instruments are a part of every culture, so obviously every race would have its own tastes and types of musical performance. But how does one describe this in their RP? Would musical terminology survive the same way Norse names have? Can we still refer to the umbrella categories of rock, blues, electronic, etc.?

I'm sure it would be strange to suggest the instruments of today have survived in their current form, but doesn't that necessitate that the musical terms would change somehow? Or, would it be more logical to assume that our commonplace instruments have in fact survived, just in modernized forms?

[Boma Airaken]

Minmatar = Finntroll.

That is all.

[Mithfindel]

Dare I to note that there was a Minmatar zero-G disco in the Empyrean Age novel?

[Isobel Mitar]

I personally believe that if we view the issue purely from realism standpoint, very little would survive as is. 20 000 years is a very long time for the human race. Something similar in regard to some aspects of music might emerge, as given the same physical laws there are only so many ways to produce sound. That said, Eve physics specifies maximum speeds for ships in space!

However, the approach above clearly makes roleplaying problematic, as roleplaying is fundamentally about communication. Words can only express so much. So personally, to facilitate roleplaying, I have made the concious decision to use contemporary words and concepts, instead of inventing new ones.

An example:

"Isobel plays the piano, the allegro notes all alike and almost too exactly in their place."
"Isobel produces sounds on the ambon, the difficult piece with quick tempo technically perfect but lacking in expression."

The former is more concise, more expressive and gives the other player more ability have his character to interact without cumbersome and lengthy OOC discussion. "((Is ambon big? Can my charater lean on it casually while talking to her?))"

[lallara zhuul]

There is a lot of background noise in the station environments.

You might want to look there...

[Senn Typhos]

Minmatar = Finntroll.

That is all.

I approve of this statement.

I suppose it makes sense, just for the sake of ease, to use conventional terminology. It kind of slows things down trying to explain what it'd look like if the Matari accidentally reinvented the electric guitar. Might as well just call it a guitar and keep in mind it'd have a machete and a car battery duct taped to it.

I guess my question is, how irked would the average RPer be to hear modern musical terms used in EVE? I mean, using totally zeitgeist terms would probably ruin things, but the barest and most generic terms - rock, electric, classic - might at least offer less direct connections. Personally, my fear is that saying a pod pilot listens to, say, Caldari electronic music, or a similar correlation to a modern day music type, feels too much akin to saying "my character looks like [whatever actor]" in your bio.

[Z.Sinraali]

I've made references like 'Caldari-style jazz' before, leaving it up to others to decide what that modifier means. I think the precise characteristics of music are generally less important to roleplaying than the general feel, which genre terms like rock, electronica, and jazz suffice to convey.

[Senn Typhos]

I've made references like 'Caldari-style jazz' before, leaving it up to others to decide what that modifier means. I think the precise characteristics of music are generally less important to roleplaying than the general feel, which genre terms like rock, electronica, and jazz suffice to convey.

Quite logical. I think I'll stick to it and let people draw their own conclusions.

Thanks all, for helping me figure out this lil conundrum. If you have any other bits of advice, feel free to throw them out... but I get the feeling this thread will quickly slide into a discussion of what music best fits which culture.

Which is just as helpful, because I'm trying to decide who best fits the blues/slow rock genre in the universe. Matari? Or not brutal enough?

[Usikava]

Minmatar very much could be based on a language(but of course we don't heard it so it just a speculation) as we have with a "black music" in real world, black people had tonal languages and use 'em to create Reggae, RAP, Blues, Tribal African Music etc. they based on a language sound and rhythm very much... As well Caldari could have a march like music from cultural point of view. It shouldn't sound as our days marches but rhythmic base should be near as it touches certain feelings in our brain(New Eden races should have common brain structure because of our same origin). And Gallente should have some Ambient & Psychodelic like music because of legal narcotics and effects this music brings with 'em, If we look on our history we can find that there is very much music made along side with the narcotics and artists were always looking for freedom of there art, so I think Gallente has a largest "Modern" culture tendencies and any music could fit as standard for 'em... And Amarrian music is presented in game as station ambiance , pretty common with our religious music...

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Now playing: Martin In The Mix - Angelic Voices Vol 2 (Vocal Trance - D I G I T A L L Y - I M P O R T E D - a fusion of trance, dance, and chilling vocals together!)
via FoxyTunes

[Senn Typhos]

Those all make good sense, considering the themes already in place on those cultures. Of course, I suppose it wouldn't be rare for races to attempt trends with each others' musical tastes, just as cultures today sometimes mingle their music - wanted or otherwise, as the case may be. Sort of how rock got started in the first place, if I recall.

[Shal Firestorm]

I've always imagined Minmatar music as an almost cacophony type of music, blending different tribal instruments and all to make music that really only they 'get' to the fullest. Of course that could just be me anthropomorphizing their government style.

For Caldari I imagine about an even split between very traditional, classic, music and almost too precise 'modern' music more or less designed to appeal to masses at a base level and therefor be profitable to sell.

Gallente should totally have a hodgepodge of not only their music but taking influence from other New Eden cultures' musics, but at the core yea I imagine it to be very psychedelic, non-lyrical, and focused more on 'feeling the music's emotion' then others.

Amarr...come on it's super clear already, good, deep, very low instrument focused, religious and cultural music. I imagine they'd have plenty of 'war anthems' as well as prayer and such. I actually would imagine Amarr have the most operas of the races, big booming affairs singing about conquest and glory to god and such.

[Laerise [PIE]]

I've always imagined Minmatar music as an almost cacophony type of music, blending different tribal instruments and all to make music that really only they 'get' to the fullest. Of course that could just be me anthropomorphizing their government style.

For Caldari I imagine about an even split between very traditional, classic, music and almost too precise 'modern' music more or less designed to appeal to masses at a base level and therefor be profitable to sell.

Gallente should totally have a hodgepodge of not only their music but taking influence from other New Eden cultures' musics, but at the core yea I imagine it to be very psychedelic, non-lyrical, and focused more on 'feeling the music's emotion' then others.

Amarr...come on it's super clear already, good, deep, very low instrument focused, religious and cultural music. I imagine they'd have plenty of 'war anthems' as well as prayer and such. I actually would imagine Amarr have the most operas of the races, big booming affairs singing about conquest and glory to god and such.

Big, big world... and all that - while sweeping generalisations might be nice I'm sure there's a ton of mixing and matching, especially in the amarr empire.

If even heir's can have affairs with gallenteans, then there's certainly some influx from there into the more open minded cultural groups, same goes for caldari thanks to the khanid kingdom and the imports coming through that - and of course there will be some matari influences as well, enslaving someone doesn't mean that you don't adopt some of the more amusing traits of their culture (like jazz irl).

Sure, overall it might have an "amarrian touch", but I doubt, no, know, that a lot of the amarrian lozalist capsuleers do not neccessarily listen to big booming chorals and operas, ala 40k, all the time.

[Shal Firestorm]

Oh yea I'm sure every culture mixes with each other in small scale things even in 'taboo' situations, I was just trying to say what my view on the 'mainstream' of each culture is musically. Yea, individual Amarr listen to whatever music they want to, I was just saying if I had to pick one race to have the big Wagner style operas it would for sure be Amarr, wasn't trying to say every one of them flies around to it  .

[Silver Night]

I think that when talking about how we communicate these things, I'm kinda with Isobel.

It is sort of an extension of using English, stuff like that. At some level, you have to make the connections that allow other players to relate to what you are talking about. Since with few exceptions, it takes something from CCP to create anything accepted widely enough that you might use it, you use something that is a good stand it. There are, also, as someone observed, only so many methods to make music.

I think that it is quite possible that music, of some type, speaks to humans on a nearly biological level. I don't know that there wouldn't be sorts of music that would be somewhat recognizable in the Eve universe (along with some, no doubt, that weren't).

The other option, making something up, works in some situations, but not others. Somewhere where you can have exposition, and aren't imposing an idea on other people's characters, mostly.

[Tiberius Wenchel]

Meatspace musical instruments are likely to be the same or very similar, as has been the real-world historical case with instruments designed in different cultures without direct contact. The laws of fluid dynamics are the same, the human means of environmental manipulation are the same and the available materials are at least arguably similar. This is always going to lead to the development of drums, simple woodwinds and stringed instruments.

The scales of these instruments are likely to vary widely, however. One need only juxtapose western Baroque era chamber music with Hindustani classical raga to hear this. Design differences in terms of scale are likely to produce very different cultural ideas about music in periods of isolation, though these ideas would eventually blend through the contact of previously isolated cultures.

In Eve, it is likely that most of these meatspace instruments have been traded in for digital synthesis, as we are seeing even now in the real world. The sounds of those old, obsolete meatspace instruments are still likely to be very influential in aesthetic decisions regarding synthetic digital sound, however. Music has a way of clinging very tightly to cultural history.

As far as genre classifications go, these are applied by critics post-process. Terms like "rock and roll" and "sludge doom" and "jazz" are little more than marketing buzzwords. It's feasible that any arbitrary term could be applied to any music within the real world or Eve without any consequence beyond the potential of affecting sales demographics. Given the nature of the Eve cluster, I tend to see the more important musical categories being defined by cultural influence, i.e. Intaki, Brutor, etc.