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Author Topic: Ninja FW fixes by CCP  (Read 3170 times)

Seriphyn

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Ninja FW fixes by CCP
« on: 03 Aug 2010, 08:17 »

In a Black Rise system occupied by the Gallente, a Caldari took one medium compound, contesting the system. However, when we took another medium compound, it did not decontest the system. I imagine taking this major facility would do so, however.

CCP, since Dominion, have added ninja fixes to FW without putting them in the patchnotes. The required amount of plexes to take a system was reduced from 32 to 24, which allowed the Gallente to make the massive counterattacks. Offensively plexing an enemy-occupied friendly system, as you saw, does more to contest the system, while defensively plexing a friendly system does more to uncontest it (OMS was contested by the PERVS successor by several plexes...it was uncontested with 2)

These secret fixes to CCP prevent there from being an overrunning as what we say of Gallente space in 2008. It also means that if there is at least SOME defensive plexing, the defending faction stands a chance at holding their systems. What we have, is a more balanced occupancy system, though issues with post-DT spawns is an issue, but that is a general plex issue not just across FW. In summary...

- It is easier for a faction to liberate and defend their own systems
- It is harder for a faction to conquer and defend enemy systems

Question is, why did CCP leave such changes out of the patch notes? In regards to the storyline, did the Dominion change come in to purposely allow the Gallente to liberate systems, so they could precipitate the next part of the story, ie. power struggle and Heth etc. in the State?
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Milo Caman

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Re: Ninja FW fixes by CCP
« Reply #1 on: 03 Aug 2010, 08:25 »

It does seem odd. There have been all sorts of 'ninja fixes' in the past which haven't appeared the the patch notes, Although considering the fuss people have been making about FW imbalance and whatnot lately, I'm surprised they left this one out.
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Zag

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Re: Ninja FW fixes by CCP
« Reply #2 on: 03 Aug 2010, 11:35 »

Well when the STPRO occupied all Fed systems I believe there was a comment by CCP that it did suit their storyline plans.

However, would it all be part of one big CCP conspiracy? I tend to think no.

It's just coincidence, and what happens when a sub-par system and mechanic is used to simulate a 'war'.





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Casiella

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Re: Ninja FW fixes by CCP
« Reply #3 on: 03 Aug 2010, 12:43 »

And here I thought they were adding FW mechanics involving looting and salvaging. ;)
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Alain Colcer

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Re: Ninja FW fixes by CCP
« Reply #4 on: 03 Aug 2010, 13:08 »

Albeit this "ninja" fix sounds very balanced and quite reasonable, i call Bullshit on CCP's part for not announcing it. Yes it is tinfoil, they are advancing the storyline in some way, and in order to do so, The State Protectorate must not loose key locations throughout Black Rise.

At the expense of the players as always.
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orange

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Re: Ninja FW fixes by CCP
« Reply #5 on: 03 Aug 2010, 13:41 »

key locations throughout Black Rise.
There are key locations throughout Black Rise from a storyline perspective?
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Casiella

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Re: Ninja FW fixes by CCP
« Reply #6 on: 03 Aug 2010, 13:45 »

How is this "at the expense of the players"? And what do you mean by "as always"?
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Zag

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Re: Ninja FW fixes by CCP
« Reply #7 on: 03 Aug 2010, 14:07 »

There might be the fact that Black Rise represents a significant investment in resources for Lai Dai, KK and Wyirkomi in not only opening it up and exploring it but also in developing it?

Losing Black Rise to the the Federation would be detrimental to KK, Lai Dai and Wyirkomi but not so much to the other five Megas.

Unless of course exploration of a previously impassable and unknown sector of space along with its colonial development does not represent a significant investment in resources for KK, Lai Dai and Wiyrkomi; then its capture should have no effects whatsoever. It would also have no effect on a seeming storyline of a State showing increasing points of friction between certain Caldari Megacorps and the Provists backed (at least nominally) by KK, Lai Dai and Wyirkomi.

Addendum: I would say Black Rise itself is key from a storyline perspective.

« Last Edit: 03 Aug 2010, 14:10 by Zag »
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Alain Colcer

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Re: Ninja FW fixes by CCP
« Reply #8 on: 03 Aug 2010, 19:53 »

Quote
How is this "at the expense of the players"? And what do you mean by "as always"?

Undocumented features that change smalls details of gameplay, and the ones paying for the cost of those changes in terms of "those who notice vs those who don't". CCPs usual way to introduce "fixes".

Quote
There are key locations throughout Black Rise from a storyline perspective?

Pretty much what Zag posted above, even more important, with the deployment of Empyrian Age, one of the key news items released had to do with CONCORD demanding explanations from the State on how Black Rise was colonized and a stargate network connected to the main one without them noticing it, until the last moment that is. Black Rise is in essence what CAIN all along wanted to create, the "4th district".

I know from an NPC standpoint missions have long depicted "private" stargates and other such things. But even those seem to answer to CONCORD in some degree.

So now, Fedos will need to work twice as hard to have payback time against the Squids, sounds funny right? twice the work with NPCs with a system that has some really annoying quirks. Meh, i shouldn't waste my energy in raising any comments really......it's CCP way, we either adapt or die.....like everything in EvE.
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orange

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Re: Ninja FW fixes by CCP
« Reply #9 on: 03 Aug 2010, 20:13 »

Quote from: Zag
Losing Black Rise to the the Federation would be detrimental to KK, Lai Dai and Wyirkomi but not so much to the other five Megas.
This appears to be true. There is no Intaki system in Black Rise (or the Citadel), which is what I thought Bruno was indicating.

Quote from: Bruno Bonner
Black Rise is in essence what CAIN all along wanted to create, the "4th district".
Interesting thought.

The term "Fourth District" comes from the description of Pure Blind, where the alliance "Fourth District" held sovereignty and generally operated prior to EA, FW, and Black Rise.
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Casiella

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Re: Ninja FW fixes by CCP
« Reply #10 on: 03 Aug 2010, 20:47 »

"those who notice vs those who don't"

I'm actually fine with that.
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Alain Colcer

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Re: Ninja FW fixes by CCP
« Reply #11 on: 04 Aug 2010, 16:47 »

"those who notice vs those who don't"

I'm actually fine with that.

I had to think a lot to formulate what i wanted to communicate.

I'm fine with people noticing a game mechanic that could favor a win in combat, or how to make more isk out of an upcoming release. Clear example with Tyrannis and people buying the NPC goods, all those crying babies claiming it isnt profitable because of the stockpiles deserve to go bankrupt.

However, i think what we are discussing here is a mechanic that has a long-term outcome in storyline, based out of player actions. This is not a change of attributes in a market item, or adjustment of BPO material usage.

We are talking about the balancing of a mechanic that benefits or hinders a group of people to work towards a goal. Only other similar situation i could think of is the evolution of sov2.0, and how it favored people like CVA back in the day. If CVA suddenly faced a forced change because CCP wanted to make Stations LESS common, then one could interpret it as a need from the developer that is not quite fair with the player base.

Perhaps in similar light, we have here a balance in capture and occupancy game mechanics that if applied 2-3 weeks ago, would have been well received by both sides, because Gallente were in the final phase to recover all lost systems, and Caldari had 1 or 2 occupied systems. Conditions are now a bit different, Gallente are making a great push towards occupancy of Caldari systems.....and although the adjustment by CCP is reasonable and balanced, could have been documented and communicated without much trouble. However if the fix was pushed because CCP does not want certain things to happen......then i call BS, an artificial difficulty is raised towards the Gallente. Why?.

Take note that i'm not accusing anyone of favoritism towards a faction, i'm raising the concern as to why now and why it was not published.....why it needed to be secret?.

The problem of people noticing vs people not noticing revolves around people dedicating their game time to establish the min/max and not focusing in having fun. I don't play the game to detect and identify the min/max alternatives, and i realize that places me behind those players that do focus on such things.

If i just accept it as something that "is", then why is my goal to the grand storyline be molded by them (ccp) if in the past everything was dynamic? and things adapted somewhat to player-driven developments?.

Not sure if i communicate my perspective well....but for me the fact it was a hidden fix raises way too many questions and possible answers do not seem to be "for the betterment of the game". Although funnily enough that might be fueled because we often need to interpret events in eve with two sides (one public and one hidden) and a great deal of paranoia.
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Vikarion

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Re: Ninja FW fixes by CCP
« Reply #12 on: 04 Aug 2010, 19:46 »

The fix, IIRC, was made while Caldari still held the majority of systems. If it was biased, it sure wasn't biased against the Gallente.

However, in this case I'm jumping off the conspiracy train and just saying that CCP didn't like/doesn't like one side holding all the systems. And while I think that that's sad, since it was an enormous accomplishment that hasn't been equaled by anyone else, it's understandable.
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Seriphyn

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Re: Ninja FW fixes by CCP
« Reply #13 on: 05 Aug 2010, 06:39 »

And while I think that that's sad, since it was an enormous accomplishment that hasn't been equaled by anyone else, it's understandable.

Heh, taking all those systems back was also an enormous accomplishment, no? Considering the Caldari captured only the Gallente half instead of every one of the 101 that makes it up. Given they pushed out the Gallente from systems initially, the Urpiken constellation was one for sure, not sure of others.

But yeah, I'm not sure why all these fixes were secret...maybe CCP didn't want to publish FW fixes in the patch notes because players might bash them for not fixing more important issues like Occupancy effects?
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Lillith Blackheart

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Re: Ninja FW fixes by CCP
« Reply #14 on: 05 Aug 2010, 07:15 »

Or maybe, just maybe; and I know this is going to be hard to grasp, they just missed it when making the patch notes.

This happens a lot. When you have a large team working on something, compiling the patch notes is not that simple. You have the notes of dozens of people, sometimes hundreds, that you have to merge into one, easy to read file; especially since the person compiling the patch notes isn't always one of the ones working on the patches themselves.

Shit gets missed.

It happens.

But hey, let's not bother to ponder such realities that happen everywhere, these were purposefully done Ninja edits at the expense of the player base. It obviously couldn't just be that the CCP team is huge and split over three facilities in three entirely different countries and stuff just kinda happens to fall aside sometimes.
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