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[Myyona]

I must say that I never got the impression that the Sansha is out for conquest. The reason why they pirate is explained as collecting resources and even new personnel, as far as I remember.

[Natalcya Katla]

While Sansha Kuvakei has repeatedly been tagged OOC by CCP and others as a megalomaniac intent on conquering the galaxy, and must have been presented that way to the public by the empires bringing about his downfall, the fact of the matter remains that he never actually got to execute any such plan. The strike against Sansha's Nation by said empires was at best a pre-emptive one. This in effect means that even if we take the chronicles' claims of Sansha's long-term plans at face value OOC, it could well be viewed as a rather shaky historical assumption IC.

Given this, I for one see absolutely no problem with Sansha loyalists defending the True Slave program (as the use of "lesser" people to make up a servant caste, leaving "better" people free to pursue their dreams) while simultaneously dismissing any claims that Sansha had any plans of galactic conquest as "inner cluster propaganda". The continued aggression of Sansha ships in space are likewise easily explained in that the Nation never actually surrendered, and that the crews are still fighting valiantly in a defensive war against foreign aggressors.

[Lillith Blackheart]

Katla put it perfectly. (Hey Katla! How's things!? )

Basically the way I look at it is all that you have is historical record, and that historical record is written as in character. Of course the Empires (who wrote the history) that banded together (the Amarr reluctantly I would like to stress. . .) are going to paint an empire they committed mass-genocide against as being a warlike monster. Why would they say otherwise?

But if you really look over the history of it, the only thing that really says that Sansha's Nation was warlike and that Sansha was a megalomaniac built on galactic conquest is that historical record. At no point did the Nation ever actually attack anyone until it was on the brink of destruction because the entire Universe was against it.

[Ghost Hunter]

Those are quite good points. Reconsidering my position on the matter in light of it, hmm.

[Silver Night]

Katla put it perfectly. (Hey Katla! How's things!? )

Basically the way I look at it is all that you have is historical record, and that historical record is written as in character. Of course the Empires (who wrote the history) that banded together (the Amarr reluctantly I would like to stress. . .) are going to paint an empire they committed mass-genocide against as being a warlike monster. Why would they say otherwise?

But if you really look over the history of it, the only thing that really says that Sansha's Nation was warlike and that Sansha was a megalomaniac built on galactic conquest is that historical record. At no point did the Nation ever actually attack anyone until it was on the brink of destruction because the entire Universe was against it.

That's essentially how I look at it too, IC and out. Now, I think IC we reach different places, starting from there. 

But taking the 'Sansha isn't really so bad, though maybe there were a couple regrettable misjudgments' approach (as my character does), saying it is all a tragic misunderstanding and implying that it is empire propaganda is a pretty fun strategy to pursue.

[Ashar Kor-Azor]

But taking the 'Sansha isn't really so bad, though maybe there were a couple regrettable misjudgments' approach (as my character does), saying it is all a tragic misunderstanding and implying that it is empire propaganda is a pretty fun strategy to pursue.

If by 'pretty fun' you mean 'guarantees a difficult argument with Ashar in Summit,' you are quite correct.

...Had you in a rhetorical headlock a few times. To your credit, you never did say 'uncle.'

As for the rest (no need to requote it), I just find that unlikely. Even given the acceptance of the True Slave program, it would be hard pressed to convince people to go ahead and do that voluntarily. Only the most fringe fanatics would accept such a thing by anything other than force, and I do not find the majority of the PF to paint the leadership of the Nation as that kind of fanatical. Different kind of fanatical, certainly, just not really that kind.

So I just read that part over and was like, wait, what?

You don't think the citizens of the nation would jump at the chance to become True Citizens, to be well-to-do within their society and get free implants?

I'm not sure I understand.

[Lillith Blackheart]

You don't think the citizens of the nation would jump at the chance to become True Citizens, to be well-to-do within their society and get free implants?

I don't think that many people would give up their ability to experience thought on their own to become a slave-soldier that will not reclone when it dies. I don't think that a "hivemindey" concept would be necessary to be a "True Citizen", and I don't think that the "free implants" that take away one's ability to make a decision on their own, so to speak, is necessary to be "well-to-do within their society".

In a nutshell I think that you are making too many assumptions of inclusion.

[Ashar Kor-Azor]

I think you need to tell me why TrueCitizens sound like TrueSlaves in your post. I think either you're reading it that way, or I missed some crucial piece of PF. And I think you can just say 'hivemind-like,' or 'mental collective' if you want to avoid the Izzyspeak.

[Lillith Blackheart]

For the record, Ashar, I'm not ignoring this, I'm trying to think about how to phrase something in a way that will be clearly understood.

I'll get a response to you in the next day or so.

In a convoluted nutshell, I can sum it up in the sense that they were named "True Slaves", not "True Awesome People".

But putting the entirety of the thought into words that make sense without rambling outside of my head has been difficult with this throbbing migraine that I have had today due to my complete lack of nicotine as I am trying hard to quit smoking due to health issues arising from it (nothing major if anyone gives a crap, my lungs are showing early signs of not wanting to work, all completely reversible so long as I quit. So. Quit I shall.)

[Vikarion]

But putting the entirety of the thought into words that make sense without rambling outside of my head has been difficult with this throbbing migraine that I have had today due to my complete lack of nicotine as I am trying hard to quit smoking due to health issues arising from it (nothing major if anyone gives a crap, my lungs are showing early signs of not wanting to work, all completely reversible so long as I quit. So. Quit I shall.)

My best wishes are with you on that. You can do it. But you know that. 

[IzzyChan]

Oh damn where was that epic Sansha-pro sansha history poast that Hali did back in teh day when you need it?

[Darina]

Remember that piece... darned if I know where it went. 

Anyway, a few thoughts:

1. Sansha Kuvakei is D-E-A-D. Why do I believe this? Difficult question, but a simple answer, I doubt that the Empires at the time of the war could allow Sansha to live.

2. Sansha Kuvakei is A-L-I-V-E. But not as the original Sansha. The Sansha that lives to today is the culmination and creation of the living True Slaves that can't go on without a Sansha. Think about it for a moment please. The True Slaves are completely loyal and completely obedient to Sansha. Without him they can't do a thing to progress and are just stuck doing the same thing, but this doesn't concur with the PF knowledge that the Nation is rebuilding itself. So someone, or something is giving it a direction. The easiest answer to that is that the True Slaves build an image of what and how and who Sansha is and stands for, strives for and just created a Sansha to follow. For all intends and purposes most True Slaves have accepted this Sansha as the Sansha. I assume that to ones that create True Power and True Creation are the ones that follow the rebuild Sansha.

3. Sansha Kuvakei is N-O-T Sansha Kuvakei. Following out of number two it presents a split in the Nation, or rather just a sense of direction. On one hand you have the True Slaves that are growing in some direction (whatever that might be) and rebuilding and on the other hand you've got the unaware splinter factions that just rebuild and throw themselves at the 'enemy', or everyone not Nation. The latter are the unreasonable types, or the ones that would raid the Empire, kidnap and turn people and be a general pest and horror. Going further into 0.0 you get the 'adapted' True, who still do exactly the same, but also are growing into some kind of direction. I assume that some True Slave cells have not connected to a new Sansha or are unwilling to do so.

4. Sansha Kuvakei is N-O-T human. Whatever else he might be, a current Sansha would be the sum of the entire Nation and all the knowledge there of. I'm not sure I can even image a person like that. One of the main points of advantage Sansha has is simply networking, in a computer sense. If he needs a plan he can just think it up, send the idea out to literally millions of minds to think about it and come up with a plan the same way. Which would reduce Sansha to basicly the pivotal role in the Nation, he makes the decisions to go ahead with anything, but the actual thinking is done by the True Slaves.

5. Sansha Kuvakei has A plan. I'd pay a 100 billion if I knew what it was.

[Casiella]

The Burning Life does not explicitly answer all of your points, particularly given the way in which the book handles its Sansha "phase". But it does shed some light on some of it, and I'd encourage anyone with a particular interest in that faction to read the novel.