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[Vikarion]

Well, Seriphyn has the problem that a lot of the RPers, especially the Caldari ones, seem to view all of the cultures in Eve as similar to "Western European". My personal argument is that, to a large extent, both the Caldari and Gallente cultures are expressions of clashing western value-sets.

The average American heartland worker, for example, is very, very Civire. Or Deteis. I fit the description of a Deteis to a tee, myself, (minus the part about the State...and...uh, more the female side of it) which is probably why I chose to RP one.

[Insert accusations of Gary-Stu-ism here]

As for the rest of it, it's also been pointed out that all humans do have similar needs, so cultures can't be too different, and, in addition, wealthy people often do behave like irresponsible, spoiled brats (the ones who haven't had to work for it, that is).

Or maybe I just pointed out that last part. Whatever. In any case, why not make mountains out of it? It's fun.  

[lallara zhuul]

I think the problem the OP is referring to is the fact that the characters in EVE tend to be the Mary Sues of the players to some extent.

Let me elaborate.

The players themselves have experience of certain kinds of cultural environments and when they interact with total strangers is in such environments, hence the westernized bar setting.

The players themselves tend to have the tendency to want to be entertained by their roleplaying, hence they will engage in idolized activities in aforementioned settings, hence the over sexualized activities by both sexes and overtly aggressive behaviour by some.

I believe this be the symptom of the general practice of roleplayers where the player pretends to be the character, therefore bringing themselves (the player) into the shoes of the character, enhancing the immersion but also bringing in all the baggage that the player has.

While there are some roleplayers that do not engage in such practices, where they actually try to keep the player as far away from the equation as possible, keeping the character at the wheel instead of having the player in the characters shoes.

Two completely different kinds of beasts.

One has the players ego involved in the roleplaying process.

Other does not.

[Jozana]

The players themselves tend to have the tendency to want to be entertained by their roleplaying, hence they will engage in idolized activities in aforementioned settings, hence the over sexualized activities by both sexes and overtly aggressive behaviour by some.

I believe this be the symptom of the general practice of roleplayers humanity ...

Fixed it for you.

[Seriphyn]

Exactly Lallara, but I don't really blame anyone for this, nor do I think lowly of anyone who does. It seems like something that can't be helped.

As an aside, to distance Gallente from the West, it seems the Federation is more of a female-driven society than patriarchal. Ethnic Gallente females are the embodiments of self-empowerment, vibrant with no jobs opened to them, there are more Intaki artists disproportionately who are women, and Jin-Mei women are bigger risk-takers than their male counterparts, who are mostly laid back.

In my opinion, it makes the Gallente more sexier (>_>) but in turn does distance itself from the West. The men would have no need to assert themselves since any source of patriarchy was either abolishd or never existed (Jin-Mei exception to that), whereas women perhaps naturally so (due to smaller size and stature etc.)...the sixth President of the Federation, Arlette Villers, I erroneously referred to as a male, but Arlette is a female name.

If that is hammered around within the RP circles, we might see a considerably different approach to Gallente RP.

[Milo Caman]

Well, in regards to the capsuleer 'alcohol problem' we simply need more establishments that offer different services. Beansnakes was a light-hearted attempt at this, and seems to be getting some attention as a 'bog-standard bar alternative, which is good.

Perhaps someone could open some Biodome channels or something?

[Seriphyn]

Biodomes are Gallente <_< >_>

[Kaleigh Doyle]

As an aside, to distance Gallente from the West, it seems the Federation is more of a female-driven society than patriarchal. Ethnic Gallente females are the embodiments of self-empowerment, vibrant with no jobs opened to them, there are more Intaki artists disproportionately who are women, and Jin-Mei women are bigger risk-takers than their male counterparts, who are mostly laid back.

In my opinion, it makes the Gallente more sexier (>_>) but in turn does distance itself from the West. The men would have no need to assert themselves since any source of patriarchy was either abolishd or never existed (Jin-Mei exception to that), whereas women perhaps naturally so (due to smaller size and stature etc.)...the sixth President of the Federation, Arlette Villers, I erroneously referred to as a male, but Arlette is a female name.

If you read the descriptions about gallente men and women:

women: Gallente females are: assertive, creative, lively, and self-empowered.
men: males are driven, ambitious, and opinionated.

I think, out of the rest of the universe, the Federation is the place where you'd find many women in positions of authority, but I don't think there's any indication that there's a majority. However, consider what's happening in the USA these days, and how they're finding that a far greater number of women are getting a higher education while the male population has been lagging behind.

[Kaleigh Doyle]

This is really just a 'urdoingitrong' discussion, but I what's interesting is to see player perception of these cultures embedded with their own innate bias. For instance, there's really not much to suggest that Amarrians are monogamous or chaste, yet people have inflected that idea upon them. Who's to say they don't love techno?

i think the problem is there's just not enough data to paint a complete picture of any culture and we're left to interpretation. Some people don't like the way others interpret something that may contradict what they've done. If you think the bar is gallentized, rp it and see what happens.

[Boma Airaken]

This is really just a 'urdoingitrong' discussion, but I what's interesting is to see player perception of these cultures embedded with their own innate bias. For instance, there's really not much to suggest that Amarrians are monogamous or chaste, yet people have inflected that idea upon them. Who's to say they don't love techno?

i think the problem is there's just not enough data to paint a complete picture of any culture and we're left to interpretation. Some people don't like the way others interpret something that may contradict what they've done. If you think the bar is gallentized, rp it and see what happens.

Not to mention that the entirety of Amarr COSMOS is a big story about how totally deviant and debaucherous and naughty Amarrians really are.

[Jakiin]

I think it's a fair statement that we all "RP Gallente" to an extent. As has been pointed out, the Federation is just an overly-liberal version of the Western World, which is where the vast majority of us live.

Perfect example? Me. Sure, Jakiin believes in the whole "Slavery as a path to God" thing, but interprets the scriptures with a very liberal bent (Though "Liberal Amarr" is around "Bush family calls fascist" territory, of course) and tends to believe things that they simply don't call for. Like diplomacy. And rank based on skill rather than birth (To an extent). And that ex-slaves should be treated equally to True Amarr. Etc.

This comes a lot from the fact I live in Canada. You know, the most left wing country that didn't spawn Vikings. So naturally when I'm playing my character I'm going to be pulling him to the left. This is, actually, probably true to an extent of most Amarr RPers, but that's an old argument that most here have heard and one I'm honestly a little on the other side of.

Interestingly, Minmatar roleplay is almost always the aversion of this: They avoid the republic with parliamentary democracy and all that, instead going straight for the revolutionary-esque freedom fighter line. Then again since Minmatar seem to mostly be played by rebels-at-heart, it makes sense that they'd be the ones to decide they don't need to support 'the man' to accomplish their goals.

Where was I? Oh yes.
Basically it does come down to this:

I believe this be the symptom of the general practice of roleplayers where the player pretends to be the character, therefore bringing themselves (the player) into the shoes of the character, enhancing the immersion but also bringing in all the baggage that the player has.

While there are some roleplayers that do not engage in such practices, where they actually try to keep the player as far away from the equation as possible, keeping the character at the wheel instead of having the player in the characters shoes.

I'm very much in the camp of the former, so I will necessarily be less inclined to play a character that's completely foreign to me.

But I have the sneaking suspicion that isn't the point of this topic. If it's just an issue of "Why are all the bars and scenery considered western" it's simple: That's work. It's not even fun work like writing a good story, or slowly positioning your organization as a police force in a primarily low-security region so that you can take 'favours' from the industrialists happy to access the minerals of lowsec with relative safety and build up an empire run on equal parts idealism and naked, unapologetic greed.

Trust me, that's way more interesting than convincing people to sit on cushions and like it.

[Silver Night]

I think, given the size of Eve, it is probably a mistake to assume many things would be universal across a single Empire's 'culture'. There might be certain commonalities that make certain sorts of things very rare in a given empire, but considering you can find a variety of cultural variation across essentially any single modern country (even those traditionally thought of as quite culturally homogeneous) it is a fair bet that across any single world in any of the empires, much less across separate worlds, you could reasonably expect nearly any sort of culture to be manifest.

The fact is we just don't have detailed info on cultural conduct in most situations. In a group of Caldari RPers or Amarr Rpers, I'd be willing to bet that even given that you would see some that people have created and that have become widely accepted.

In more public exchanges, I don't think what you see is 'Gallente' so much as that lack of that other since we don't know about it, so people default to essentially what is 'normal' for them to facilitate interaction.

I would suggest that the Gallente may well have their own interpersonal rituals that aren't portrayed. The Gallente are, after all, not 'The West' or anything else like that. They are a vast empire spanning in all likelihood tens or hundreds of thousands of cultures, all mixed here and there and everywhere in no doubt unpredictable ways.

Taking the example of a bar: Bars are, at some basic level, similar everywhere. There are certainly surface differences, but in the vast majority of cases an establishment where you can buy drinks and socialize can only have so many configurations.

Certainly it would be good for more possible variation to be explored, but there is only so far you can go. The 'Iran' example, for example, relies more on the culture than the bar itself. It's basis is in how people interact. I'm all for people taking into consideration culture when they decide how their characters interact with people around them, but it isn't exactly enforceable. Nor should it be.

[Lillith Blackheart]

More importantly: The Gallente are a free, open society. There have been many examples given here from everyone as to certain societies in modern times that have similarities.

The US is hated by most other countries for a lot of reasons, one of the primary reasons that much of the East has a distaste for us (the actual citizens, not the governments) is that they feel we are trying to conquer the globe culturally by pushing our customs on everyone, as well as our beliefs.

Because it's happening. (We're not really trying, it's just happening).

So the fact that there would be small facets of all of the various societies in the game that would resemble Gallente culture in modicum is not exactly something that should be considered odd, strange, or bad.

In fact it should be expected that, due to interaction between all four of the main entities, cultural bleedover happens.

It's an inevitability. We see it now on a much smaller scale with Globalization. Imagine it through an entire cluster when information and goods can travel instantly from system to system.

Molehills, man. Molehills.

[Ulphus]

Interestingly, Minmatar roleplay is almost always the aversion of this: They avoid the republic with parliamentary democracy and all that, instead going straight for the revolutionary-esque freedom fighter line. Then again since Minmatar seem to mostly be played by rebels-at-heart, it makes sense that they'd be the ones to decide they don't need to support 'the man' to accomplish their goals.

Have you heard of Electus Matari? They support the Republic. They're not really "revolutionary-esque freedom fighter"s in my view, and other than Du'uma Fiisi (who are terrorists, not freedom fighters ) I'm not sure who the other big Matari Rp groups are, or are you referring to individuals that you meet in pirate bars?

And it's a tribal democracy, isn't it? A very different beast to a parliamentary democracy I would have thought.

[Isobel Mitar]

Interestingly, Minmatar roleplay is almost always the aversion of this: They avoid the republic with parliamentary democracy and all that, instead going straight for the revolutionary-esque freedom fighter line. Then again since Minmatar seem to mostly be played by rebels-at-heart, it makes sense that they'd be the ones to decide they don't need to support 'the man' to accomplish their goals.

Incidentally, I play a Republic loyalist in a loyalist alliance.

I figure the Minmatar would have taken large parts of the basic theoretical model of how to organize a government from the Gallente Federation after the Rebellion, simply because they urgently needed to come up with something pretty quick, and had little governmental traditions of their own.

That said, I believe "democracy" in the Republic is not really like democracy in the Federation or most Western countries, because of the superimposition over the clan/tribal model. To keep even some of their own culture and values during 800 years of captivity (quite a feat, but PF says so!  ) I feel the Minmatar would have to have traditions of mouthing off the required phrases in public while simultaneously going about their business just like before in private.

PF hints the real power structure in the Republic is thorough the tribes and clans. I expect the average Minmatar might, for example, vote for the candidate their clan has decided to support or ignore a law if it conflicts his clan custom.

[Jakiin]

Have you heard of Electus Matari? They support the Republic. They're not really "revolutionary-esque freedom fighter"s in my view, and other than Du'uma Fiisi (who are terrorists, not freedom fighters ) I'm not sure who the other big Matari Rp groups are, or are you referring to individuals that you meet in pirate bars?

U'K, or whatever their name becomes once they reform, for one. They're big, right?

And it's a tribal democracy, isn't it? A very different beast to a parliamentary democracy I would have thought.

Parliamentary democracy: You vote for an MP who belongs to a party, based usually more on the party than the individual them self. The party then acts a fairly cohesive unit (As opposed to the US form of democracy, where they 'cross the floor' all the time) to accomplish group goals.

Tribal democracy: A tribe gets a number of seats roughly proportionate to their total tribal membership. You can choose to switch between tribes*. The tribe then acts as a fairly cohesive unit to accomplish group goals.

Admittedly, I've not actually seen that 'switching between tribes' stuff in any PF, but that seems to be the accepted truth in the player base since someone apparently pointed out that otherwise the Republic would be at least as racist as the Empire. And of course there's the fact that they apparently vote directly for the Prime Minister? Is that it?

Can... Can you do that? I mean, I'm not up to date on world government outside of Canada/UK/US but doesn't the title Prime Minister imply that they're just the leader of the largest party/coalition?

Incidentally, I play a Republic loyalist in a loyalist alliance.

I figure the Minmatar would have taken large parts of the basic theoretical model of how to organize a government from the Gallente Federation after the Rebellion, simply because they urgently needed to come up with something pretty quick, and had little governmental traditions of their own.

Sounds fair.

That said, I believe "democracy" in the Republic is not really like democracy in the Federation or most Western countries, because of the superimposition over the clan/tribal model. To keep even some of their own culture and values during 800 years of captivity (quite a feat, but PF says so!   ) I feel the Minmatar would have to have traditions of mouthing off the required phrases in public while simultaneously going about their business just like before in private.

Possible, would be interesting to see some PF supporting that. I haven't really gone through all the news archives yet.

PF hints the real power structure in the Republic is thorough the tribes and clans. I expect the average Minmatar might, for example, vote for the candidate their clan has decided to support[1] or ignore a law if it conflicts his clan custom.[2]

[1] Pretty common IRL in some places, actually. I have a tendency to look favourably on my preferred party's leader simply because the party I think is all right thinks he's all right. Which is a big reason why I tend to think of the Matari method as being parliamentary: More focus on the parties than the leaders.

[2] "I don't care what the law says, this is British Columbia! In BC you smoke weed!"
"This is not what I was hoping my eleventh birthday party would be like."
"SMOKE IT!"

Bit of an exaggeration, but people do have a tendency all over to ignore laws if it interferes with their customs.