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[Nicoletta Mithra]

Honestly, Miz, you're comparing apples and pears here.

There is not so much an 'Amarr faction' as an 'Empire faction'. Already when you look at what the 'Khanid Kingdom faction' is doing they are going in quite another direction than the Amarr and it isn't quite easy to integrate both in one unified 'faction'.

So, sure, if you want a 'Minmatar faction' which includes the Minmatar in the Federation, the Republic, the Thukker, and those in the Empire, then you're overreaching, simply put.

Just go for the 'Republic faction', the 'thukker faction' can reasonably be attached just like the 'Khanid faction' is to the 'Empire faction' (and the other way around like many Khanid factionistas will be eager to point out), but there is no unified 'Amarr faction' that includes Amarr that moved to the Federation, Amarr that are Blood Raiders, Amarr that joined the Republic or Amarr thatjoined Ushra'Khan.

Sorry, but you want too much, too hard and in a way that won't work. Don't complain that your task is impossible, if you yourself go around in cricles until you found various ways to make it impossible.

The fact is, there has been a 'Minmatar' or maybe rather 'republican faction' - so it can't be impossible. You're constant clamour that it is impossible and that there is no Matari RP and never will be is rather serving to let shoo people away from such RP. You're shooting yourself in the foot here.

Also,. franky, the level of obsession you have with this is something that I can't rationalize in any way or shape as healthy. To hold onto something when oneself is convinced that it is impossible is quite insane.

[Morwen Lagann]

Ah er... I think that the Minmatar players and characters in general try to identify too much in their relation to the Amarr, and not enough in their relation to the Minmatar...

+1

[Pieter Tuulinen]

Also, I'm kinda confused as to why you think Minmatar RP is doomed to be more fracted than Caldari RP. My character literally scoffs at the idea of a unified Caldari State - the State is a bunch of different political entities unified only by a single culture - being Caldari.

This system would work perfectly well for the Minmatar, where your Corps would be Tribes and your version of the CEP would be the Council of Elders. The problem comes, as Lyn has said, that you've allowed your position towards the Amarr to dominate over serving the interests of your Faction, instead of it simply being one of a number of issues driving you.

Too many Minnie RP'ers, to put it bluntly, care more about what happens to the Empire than they care about what happens to the Republic and care more about the fate of the Matari slaves in the Empire than the fate of the Matari tribesmen that live in the Republic.

You guys need to look at some RP'ers for whom the fate of their band/tribe/clan is the most important driving factor - Ava/Kyllsa springs to mind. Too many Minnie RP'ers seem quite happy to pursue a political agenda that would destroy both the Empire and the Republic if it came to fruition - the 'No abolition - No peace' faction springs to mind, here. That sort of position is absolutely fine for a small number of extremists, but it seems to be the default position for the entire Minmatar faction - and it's a position that would lead to the destruction of the Republic in short order.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

And it's not like they aren't or haven't been enough players who focused on internal matters more than the Amarr. But honestly, the 'No abolition -no peace' faction did a damn good job at making them feel pretty unwelcome, driving them away and out of the respective RP groups.

[Mizhara]

I am unsure when this thread turned to be about me rather than the relative "health" of RP in different groups, but I'd appreciate it if the arguments actually responded to arguments rather than talking shit about me, k thx.

[Lyn Farel]

Personally, I wasn't talking about you...

[Pieter Tuulinen]

I am unsure when this thread turned to be about me rather than the relative "health" of RP in different groups, but I'd appreciate it if the arguments actually responded to arguments rather than talking shit about me, k thx.

You make it sound like you think we're trying to win a debate in here. We're not. Some people have noted why Matari RP is having a hard time and others have noted why they think that is. Nobody is talking about you, directly, since that would constitute 'doinitwrong' and is against the etiquette of your board.

I'm interested in why YOU think Minnie RP is broke, then, Miz. Let's talk about your ideas.

[Nissui]

FWIW, this was distributed some time ago in the effort to spur discussion on the issue, but I received no comments. That I did not press the issue to a wider audience was the fault of my own paranoia, which now seems moot.

[Deitra Vess]

Is it me or is this whole "no abolition no peace" thing starting to get annoying? Half the time it seems to just be inserted into arguments for the hell of it. Realistically anyone so diehard about "freeing their people" would look at what they're freeing them into, thus wouldn't be throwing such an argument around for things that would also be considered important for their people. This tunnel vision of sorts really makes them sound unrealistic at least, idiotic at worst. As someone mainly looking at Minnie rp it at times makes it hard to rationalize why my character would even bother talking to someone so short sighted on things.That being said, why would someone jump into anything when their "allies" seem to want to only focus on one small aspect and turn on you for not drinking the kool-aid so to speak. It feels in a lot of ways Minnie rp has become or is done more satirical or like some 90's sitcom character (I really don't know how to explain it) and I'm not omitting myself from this criticism, I'm definitely guilty of it. I'm not trying to say anyone's doing it wrong or anything like that (I'm probably the last person qualified to accuse). I dunno, theres my thoughts either way.

[Mathra Hiede]

Perhaps I am old fashioned, but I like to remember a time when Matari RP was probably the most vibrant, lots of RP corps and really well rounded characters
That wasn't that long ago either... Ok maybe a couple of years but still, when I made Math'ra as an Imperial we were the dark evil slaver RP group.
PIE existed but only on the forums and even then with a stiff upper lip and haughty expression that would put the best to shame.

I think what we've experienced is a progression in our RP to be more accepting and open, we have our villains but our 'heros' too, excepting some certain small elements.

It's great to have inter-factional villains because you can use them to generate loyal support.

I do miss having more Fed RP around Andreus and a few others excepted, they always knew how to cause a stir, I so definately think it's their turn for CCP lovin'

[Ayallah]

Minmatar loyalist corps, internal RP and OOC collaboration is on the rise.

No more days of just Ava and I active, now there is often as much or more activity in minmatar channels than the summit, though less consistently.

from what I understand, it was like this a few years ago in Amarr as well so its just going to be getting and rewarding more minmatar nerds to keep the current (great) momentum going.

I can't speak on the other factions so much as I more interact with them externally and not RP them.

[Laerise [PIE]]

On the realism part of minmatar focusing "solely" on the slavery issue, just look at various real world conflicts that revolve around highly emotional issues, like e.g. Palestine indipendance (I'll self redact that out happily if it causes concern - can't really come up with something as obvious right now).

Some people are prone to zero in on something they feel very strongly about, I don't think that's unrealistic at all.

If you get too much of that however in any given community it'll kill much of the other RP, just like an algal bloom. Heck, even my very own Lae's killed a small number of RP channels by being the stubborn, self-righteous bitch she can be and that was just her. 

[Mizhara]

On the realism bit:

I find it highly unrealistic that people like Miz, born and raised in the Empire and freed, would not focus on either harming the Empire in every way they can or freeing the rest of her people, or both at once. Unfortunately, most public RP involving both factions will inevitably come down to the points of conflict, which thus steers the conversation to exactly these focuses.

This is why it comes up so much, because it is one of the extremely few subjects that naturally fits in the public space.

The rest of the character appears in far less public venues where actual Tribal focused things can come up. I'd actually go so far as to say the hardline approach is damn near dead and non-existent compared to all the peace-loving hippies.

[Deitra Vess]

With me, the realism thing would stem more so from myself. I expect it from people like miz and a few others. Its been addressed in a way my character would say "alright that makes sense." Its more so having random person #52 saying such things. I don't fault them (a lot of it comes from my own laziness I fully admit) it more so would have my character scratching their head saying "where the hell did you come from?"

The zeroing in thing laerise mentioned I can understand, especially with as fractured race as the minmatar, but is that the only faction with in this it? It really seems like that's where everyone gravitates to aside from samira, val, and a few others, even if they don't have a reason to. The fact that it's one of the few non "crush to fit" topics out there I can understand but when its randomly tacked into things, really? Enslavement is one thing (yes, a massive thing) but they also leveled every monument where they went, tried to eradicate the whole tatoo culture, really just wipe out their culture in general. There's a lot of other ways people could go but don't. Sorry if this is considered a rant or something, I don't mean it to be. It's just things I've noticed and find myself wondering.

[ValentinaDLM]

I think the health of Minmatar groups continues to grow, I know I have seen two new FW alliances, Matari Safari, and Starkmanir Unification. Not terribly certain on the RP behind them aside from being FW, but particularly interested in seeing more Starkmanir Unification as I assume the RP is related to the Starkmanir tribe which is not something we have really had much of in the RP community.

I have to say, I really like the idea of Minamtar RPers working towards ends that might include violence against the Amarr, but aren't defined by the Amarr. That being said, Val is going to keep doing her thing, of moving culturally more and more away from her Ammatar roots, and closer to more tribal traditions, but isn't going to be overtly aggressive towards the Amarr mainly because her boyfriend is in PIE, and beyond anything she has always sought to please the people in her life even if it means compromising her convictions.