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Author Topic: CSM minutes  (Read 7375 times)

Morwen Lagann

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Re: CSM minutes
« Reply #15 on: 29 Oct 2014, 19:52 »

I see zero issue with gender-swapping certs, not even lorewise. Our clones are sculpted from human cadavers, among other things - they're not just grown in vats. For a society that is capable of these things, I have serious doubts that the ability to make a clone of someone that is effectively them, just with a swapped chromosome, is exceedingly difficult. Obviously some funky genetic engineering and biology work would be necessary to make it viable - you can't just go swapping an X and a Y chromosome blindly - but I really don't see that as being outside the realm of possibility, either technologically or economically, for capsuleers at least. Speaking in terms of game mechanics though, gender in EVE as far as our characters go matters in like, three places that I can think of: sculpting meshes, available/usable clothing, and for roleplayers. I'm not even really sure that this should require a certificate/purchase, but then again I don't really see the point in swapping back and forth every other day so maybe that's just me.

Race changes I am very, very iffy on. Again, much like gender, this is something that after a certain amount of time has little to zero relevance to anything except sculpting meshes, available default clothing items and hair styles, and roleplayers. Because it seems less of a super-personal attribute, I personally don't see the point to having these yet, but if CCP ever got around to adding the race-blending features to the character creator that were talked about once upon a time, I would definitely consider supporting it.

I can see a number of possible issues with name-swapping certificates, some potentially major, most minor. I'd be OK with this under certain specific circumstances - like having it attached to a gender-swapping cert to be used during the swap or sometime after. Name changes should largely be kept out otherwise, imo - save the obvious cases of abusive/inappropriate names or the occasional one-off "okay I really fucked up on this" that I feel should have to go through the GMs as is the current policy afaik.

Hats/clothes... obvious yes.

There was also a mention about people complaining that the old pirate log items were no longer in the loot drop tables. Hopefully that means they'll get updated and re-added at some point.

Standings: I don't like standings decay as a concept. I also don't really like removing them as a gateway to higher-level missions - I would prefer to lower the bar instead (current values are 1.0 for L2, 3.0 for L3, 5.0 for L4, fuck knows for L5) and just make it require less work. I want standings to become visible again - as an optional thing. Add a thing to our character sheets that lets us mark factions and corporations to show off our standings for.
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Morwen's Law:
1) The number of capsuleer women who are bisexual is greater than the number who are lesbian.
2) Most of the former group appear lesbian due to a lack of suitable male partners to go around.
3) The lack of suitable male partners can be summed up in most cases thusly: interested, worth the air they breathe, available; pick two.

Samira Kernher

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Re: CSM minutes
« Reply #16 on: 29 Oct 2014, 20:01 »

But things like a gender change? They better write new PF making that realistic. A lot of it. With scientific World News, development, execution. Everything.

Race and gender changing are already described in Source as possible.

Also, no, it doesn't really require a huge amount of science articles. It's possible IRL already, if slow.

As for dysphoria issues, I don't think that'd exist much, because with such an easy way of changing there is no permanent and unalterable change, thus giving people the freedom to explore without lasting commitment. Dysphoria is principally being stuck as something you're not, forced to forever live life as a gender you aren't. But for capsuleers, where changing bodies "is like changing clothes", I don't think dysphoria would cause too much issue. Afterall, one would expect that it would primarily only be those who already have dysphoria who would change, or those who are androgyne (don't classify into the typical gender roles. Pangender, gender fluid, etc). One would expect that the people who are bothered by such a thing so as to develop a severe dysphoria simply would be the ones who don't do the change, or regret the change and immediately change back.

In other words, there's really no issue with this at all.
« Last Edit: 29 Oct 2014, 20:10 by Samira Kernher »
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Jace

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Re: CSM minutes
« Reply #17 on: 29 Oct 2014, 22:53 »

But things like a gender change? They better write new PF making that realistic. A lot of it. With scientific World News, development, execution. Everything.

Race and gender changing are already described in Source as possible.

Also, no, it doesn't really require a huge amount of science articles. It's possible IRL already, if slow.

As for dysphoria issues, I don't think that'd exist much, because with such an easy way of changing there is no permanent and unalterable change, thus giving people the freedom to explore without lasting commitment. Dysphoria is principally being stuck as something you're not, forced to forever live life as a gender you aren't. But for capsuleers, where changing bodies "is like changing clothes", I don't think dysphoria would cause too much issue. Afterall, one would expect that it would primarily only be those who already have dysphoria who would change, or those who are androgyne (don't classify into the typical gender roles. Pangender, gender fluid, etc). One would expect that the people who are bothered by such a thing so as to develop a severe dysphoria simply would be the ones who don't do the change, or regret the change and immediately change back.

In other words, there's really no issue with this at all.

I'll have to do a search in the PF for the mentions of dysphoria. It is in there, somewhere. But note that I do mention that I don't see that as being an IC issue for trans* folks - because in a sense, the change would be solving a form of dysphoria. It is the rapid changes for other reasons that seems like it would throw out the previous PF that mentions dysphoria. I'll have to find it. Perhaps I am remembering it being mentioned more than it actually is.

At any rate, I agree with the notion that labeling the issue the lore discusses as 'dysphoria' was an unfortunate choice of terminology given the connotations.
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Samira Kernher

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Re: CSM minutes
« Reply #18 on: 30 Oct 2014, 00:05 »

See my post in the other thread, seeing as this topic has apparently split across two different threads.
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Jace

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Re: CSM minutes
« Reply #19 on: 30 Oct 2014, 00:21 »

See my post in the other thread, seeing as this topic has apparently split across two different threads.

Yeah, I responded and agreed.
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Lyn Farel

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Re: CSM minutes
« Reply #20 on: 30 Oct 2014, 10:07 »

Standings decay ? All that work for naugh'... o_O
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Jace

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Re: CSM minutes
« Reply #21 on: 30 Oct 2014, 10:20 »

Standings decay ? All that work for naugh'... o_O

I actually like the idea of it having to be maintained. It makes little sense to me that someone should be able to grind it and keep it for years. What entity doesn't ask "what have you done for me lately?"
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Morwen Lagann

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Re: CSM minutes
« Reply #22 on: 30 Oct 2014, 10:28 »

Over the course of years, maybe. But in order for it to be a meaningful mechanic it would have to be an unrealistically fast rate of decay along the lines of "you didn't run a mission for us last week, so screw you, you traitor."

There are not enough benefits to high standings to merit continual work to keep them high, though. Having high standings with a station used to be good for 3 things - jump clones, taxes and refining rates. Refining rates are not worth mentioning anymore with the nerf, and taxes have always been negligible unless you're a fancypants market tycoon who's funneling ISK around in extremely large amounts, so that really just leaves jump clones - and those are an occasional one-off thing, too, since you only need the standings to install them, not use them. Once they're created your standings are no longer relevant.

Add substantial, tangible benefits to having high standings, and then decay might make sense as far as gameplay goes.
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Morwen's Law:
1) The number of capsuleer women who are bisexual is greater than the number who are lesbian.
2) Most of the former group appear lesbian due to a lack of suitable male partners to go around.
3) The lack of suitable male partners can be summed up in most cases thusly: interested, worth the air they breathe, available; pick two.

Jace

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Re: CSM minutes
« Reply #23 on: 30 Oct 2014, 10:34 »

But, but, the trader tears. Oh they would be sweet.
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Mizhara

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Re: CSM minutes
« Reply #24 on: 30 Oct 2014, 10:36 »

Wait, what? Standings decay?

Fuck. That. Noise.

I worked damn hard on getting the standings to squeeze out the best margins in Jita with the expectation that it was something I had to do once and be finished, much like skilling up etc. My industrialist is an industrialist, not a fucking mission runner. And what about inactivity? "lol, you didn't log in other than skillqueueing for a while, so fuck you and the ship you rode in on".

Horseshit. "What have you done for me lately?" other than paying fuck knows how much in taxes in any given week?

@Jace Go grind the standings in courier missions for tradehub corps and come talk to me again.
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Jace

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Re: CSM minutes
« Reply #25 on: 30 Oct 2014, 10:41 »

You say this like I don't spend 10 hours in a day running distribution missions for standings.
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Karmilla Strife

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Re: CSM minutes
« Reply #26 on: 30 Oct 2014, 11:35 »

Name change please! Finally a change that I want.
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Samira Kernher

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Re: CSM minutes
« Reply #27 on: 30 Oct 2014, 12:32 »

Fuck standings decay. Fuck it. Just no.
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Anyanka Funk

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Re: CSM minutes
« Reply #28 on: 30 Oct 2014, 12:41 »

Ditto Samira. At least if they do this make the decay to corp only. Grinding pirate faction standing is a bitch and a half!
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Louella Dougans

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Re: CSM minutes
« Reply #29 on: 30 Oct 2014, 13:16 »

capitals in highsec.

lol
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