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[Esna Pitoojee]

It's not about the materials - those are an entirely separate area. It's not even about Jump Clones - those can still be ferried around on a titan or rorqual.

This is about actually getting players out to a new area for the first time. The inability to recruit would be a virtual death knell for any alliance, no matter how well organized their logistics and escort is.

EDIT: To answer more completely, here's the issue with "you live in a remote corner of nullsec, you pay the price for it."

Objectively, some of those deep-nullsec regions are the worst to live in.

Not just because they're hard to get to - though that's certainly a part of it - but because they're devoid of valuable resources present in other regions. Oasa, Perrigen Falls, Scalding Pass - they've traditionally been the homes of "little guys" and renters because they are less valuable to begin with. Now you're asking the people those already-poorer positions to have difficulty getting new people to their space? Not helpful.

[Lyn Farel]

EDIT: To answer more completely, here's the issue with "you live in a remote corner of nullsec, you pay the price for it."

Objectively, some of those deep-nullsec regions are the worst to live in.

Not just because they're hard to get to - though that's certainly a part of it - but because they're devoid of valuable resources present in other regions. Oasa, Perrigen Falls, Scalding Pass - they've traditionally been the homes of "little guys" and renters because they are less valuable to begin with. Now you're asking the people those already-poorer positions to have difficulty getting new people to their space? Not helpful.

Ah, but that's another problem ain't it ? Are we trying to solve the resource inattractiveness of those remote regions by allowing them to recruit properly ? Aren't we a bit misleading on the real issue ?

Recruitment is just a red-herring.

[Esna Pitoojee]

In my opinion, the resource inattractiveness of those regions is not a "problem", per se. For a while after the Dominion expansion there was a period where almost all regions were largely identical in value; this created another bigger problem, though: Why invade another region when your own is just as good?

Especially with the drive to prevent conquering large swaths of territory, some regions need to be more valuable than others.

[Graelyn]

Finally, some balls.

Would have been pretty important if they'd done this 4-6 years ago.

Bit late now though.

[Silas Vitalia]

Finally, some balls.

Would have been pretty important if they'd done this 4-6 years ago.

Bit late now though.

Rearranging deck chairs on the titanic always has a certain appeal, though 

[Merdaneth]

This is about actually getting players out to a new area for the first time. The inability to recruit would be a virtual death knell for any alliance, no matter how well organized their logistics and escort is.

Your first dangerous journey into remote nullsec, only the wily, brave and lucky survive the first time. Isn't that a great initiation rite? Doesn't that create good gaming memories? I personally think that it's great gameplay. You should be scared for your first journey into deep nullsec, it will make for a memorable appearance. And yes, it will make deep nullsec regions less populated, I think that's an advantage too. True frontiers, not this geography-doesn't-matter stuff.

[Mizhara]

What Merde said. My first venture into nullsec was amazing. The nerves were taut, the maps were studied with care and the Rifter was... well, it sort of exploded in a Sabre's bubble, but it was one hell of an experience. Didn't even know about death cloning back then and if I had it'd have cheapened the experience so much. It was an achievement to navigate hostile nullsec to get to Deklein and it didn't take more than a little common sense and listening to the advice of those who'd made those runs before. Even found a camp near the end of the leg and had my new mates come scatter it. It made content.

Recruitment here is a bit of a red herring and so is the population numbers in the further regions. It really shouldn't be a game of "Yup, fast travel to us" or "Stuff every region with population". Getting a pack of (or even a solo) recruit to the area should be a bit of a job, an adventure even. A frontier region should be more sparsely populated than the central areas. It leads to variety and fun, even if it's harder.

[Samira Kernher]

Instead of death cloning to get newbies out to new regions, design an actual interactable gameplay element to accomplish the same thing. For example, instead of the 'once a year you can death clone' idea they've bounced around, how about an alliance can, once per year if it hasn't been destroyed, establish a single limited-strength stargate between one system in their null space and a low sec system. To prevent it from being used for much more than recruiting, give it a mass/ship limit like wormholes/accel gates--IE only pods, shuttles, and maybe frigates can use it. And of course, both ends should be destructable.

[Odelya]

Whatever makes CFC sad, makes me happy.

[Anyanka Funk]

They had it right the first time. Get rid of death cloning. Allow characters to install jump clones in stations that their alliance owns remotely or not. You can still get to null via Anoikis, people just want to be lazy recruiters and not scan them a way in.. I should add Anyanka lived in a C4>C4 for a year in a wormhole alliance.

[Mizhara]

Whatever makes CFC sad, makes me happy.

Well, out of all the nullbears, CFC is getting the best deal here actually. They can still hold their space through sheer density of numbers and pack a decent wallop outside of it. It's the (relatively) smaller entities that will be less able to project their power across huge parts of null/low both because they just don't have the wast swathes of geography already covered and because they don't have the numbers to spread their efforts across a large number of fronts.

If CFC are crying, they're kind of stupid, because they're better off than anyone else in null right now.

[Victoria Stecker]

- Low Sec DDs: Under the proposed system, there would be little to stop the prevalance of "drive-by doomsdaying" - jumping in, firing off a quick doomsday, warping out as soon as the 30s timer is up, and getting clear. It basically forces anyone who is living in low and wants to use a capital to own a heavy interdictor and be friends with someone who can kill a titan. Not sold on this one.

I don't think this will be as big a deal. A couple reasons:

DD are still limited to hitting caps only. So they can be used against dreads and carriers, but that's it.

The titan gets a timer when it jumps in. If it jumps out before waiting out that timer (which could take anywhere from 10 to 50 minutes) it ends up with an even bigger timer. If they aren't planning to use it for anything else, people will be ok with this. But it also presents some interesting tradeoffs - deciding whether a quick gank is worth limiting the use of that particular asset later in the day.

Over on FHC (which I can't see at work anymore :fistshake:) people were copying over CCP Greyscale's posts from the EVO thread. It's pretty epic, Greyscale is awesome.

I'm not sure this will get me to consider resubbing, but it's an awesome change either way.

[Esna Pitoojee]

I don't think this will be as big a deal. A couple reasons:

DD are still limited to hitting caps only. So they can be used against dreads and carriers, but that's it.

The titan gets a timer when it jumps in. If it jumps out before waiting out that timer (which could take anywhere from 10 to 50 minutes) it ends up with an even bigger timer. If they aren't planning to use it for anything else, people will be ok with this. But it also presents some interesting tradeoffs - deciding whether a quick gank is worth limiting the use of that particular asset later in the day.

I guess it depends on how you "expendable" you view the use of a titan.

On the one hand, you have a point.

On the other hand, titans warping off to safes and cloaking to cap-up has been a thing since forever anyhow, and with sudden far-reaching strikes becoming a far less likely thing in the near future you could more reliably say "I doubt I'll be needing my titan to defend the homeland in the next 24 hours."

[BloodBird]

Finally!

It was high time they removed the ability to airdrop Tiger Tanks anywhere across the Russian front in a manner of minutes.

Yes, it will change your gameplay, that is the whole idea.

THIS.

One of the things that have pissed me off the most with this game is the absurd idea that you can go anywhere in low-sec and a possibly infinite number of capitals and supers can be dropped on you by any random alt from some nub-school a any time.

You wanna use your carrier as a logistics boat to haul your stuff around? Now you can do that with a bit less risk of bored supers pilots gang-banging you with practically no risk involved because they have hundreds of damn titans ready to save them.

I shed no tears of compassion for anyone unsubbing over this, I am however shedding tears of joy as I laugh at anyone raging at this.

On the flip side, dooms-days in low? Yep, they can't drown you in capitals to easily, but they got new ways to possibly grief available now.

Well, I'll adapt. Everyone has to

[BloodBird]

What Merde said. My first venture into nullsec was amazing. The nerves were taut, the maps were studied with care and the Rifter was... well, it sort of exploded in a Sabre's bubble, but it was one hell of an experience. Didn't even know about death cloning back then and if I had it'd have cheapened the experience so much. It was an achievement to navigate hostile nullsec to get to Deklein and it didn't take more than a little common sense and listening to the advice of those who'd made those runs before. Even found a camp near the end of the leg and had my new mates come scatter it. It made content.

Recruitment here is a bit of a red herring and so is the population numbers in the further regions. It really shouldn't be a game of "Yup, fast travel to us" or "Stuff every region with population". Getting a pack of (or even a solo) recruit to the area should be a bit of a job, an adventure even. A frontier region should be more sparsely populated than the central areas. It leads to variety and fun, even if it's harder.

Me and my corp's first runs into null included smuggling a SINGLE HAULER worth of our corporate assets (yeah we were rather pitiable) past a tackle-camp to get deep into stain where we joined STAIN- Alliance while the members braved the camp itself. This ofc was before bubbles so we worked out a few frigate fits built to insta-align and warp away before we got tackled and killed. Took us 2-3 tries each on average.

Getting to Stain was an adventure at the time.

Today, I'm moving 60 times those assets, PERSONAL assets, out of null. Using a carrier and several jumps through jump bridges and such.

This change will help make EVE "bigger" again, where logistics matter again. Maybe we will even get back the times when large convoys of ships with escorts to get assets from A to B is a thing once more.

I surely can't hurt.