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Author Topic: Memory tampering and downloading  (Read 4219 times)

Arista Shahni

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Re: Memory tampering and downloading
« Reply #15 on: 07 Dec 2013, 02:07 »

All I read is prOn.

Christ I"m tired. ;)
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V. Gesakaarin

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Re: Memory tampering and downloading
« Reply #16 on: 07 Dec 2013, 06:58 »

I think there was an old chron... Doppleganger? I think it was that described how the Pend Insurance CEO was being investigated by CONCORD and asked some questions by DED types about if he had two clones active at the same time or if someone else was trying to impersonate him.

That seemed to imply it was possible to have multiple copies and that CONCORD took a very dim view upon it. So what's wrong with softcloning? It ties into the whole multiple copies thing, and why would CONCORD make something illegal that could not occur with the technology available?
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Arista Shahni

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Re: Memory tampering and downloading
« Reply #17 on: 07 Dec 2013, 07:27 »

Can someone beter define a softclone?  I thought it was more like jumppcloning before they ninjaeditigned the definition of jumpcloning -- or even a 'clone  without jacks'.  - not a clone that exidtss in a concious state at the ame time as another (any more than a jumpclone used to.. becuase rippning out   implans and putting in new biomass so SO not a waste of resources.)
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Saede Riordan

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Re: Memory tampering and downloading
« Reply #18 on: 07 Dec 2013, 07:51 »

Can someone beter define a softclone?  I thought it was more like jumppcloning before they ninjaeditigned the definition of jumpcloning -- or even a 'clone  without jacks'.  - not a clone that exidtss in a concious state at the ame time as another (any more than a jumpclone used to.. becuase rippning out   implans and putting in new biomass so SO not a waste of resources.)

A softclone doesn't say anything about the nature of the clone itself, any clone can be a softclone, from the most basic and generic to the most expensive and customized. What makes a clone 'soft' is the process used to generate the mental data that goes into the clone. 'Hard' cloning involves the clone burn scanner in the capsule and kills the user but delivers absolutely up to date information to their new body. 'Soft' cloning involves using some manner of less invasive scanner, likely some high powered futuristic MRI type device to generate the mental state data. However, you can't be updating all the time, so if you die out of pod and are 'soft cloned' you lose the memories from everything after your backup was made.
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Kohiko Sun

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Re: Memory tampering and downloading
« Reply #19 on: 07 Dec 2013, 07:55 »

Quote
not a clone that exidtss in a concious state at the ame time as another
Two clones at once would be something else, called forking.
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Morwen Lagann

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Re: Memory tampering and downloading
« Reply #20 on: 07 Dec 2013, 08:04 »

The term originated out of a term used to describe a non-lethal brain scan - a 'soft' scan as opposed to the 'hard' scan described in the capsule/clone tech article.

Essentially you're talking about a clone whose brain imprint is that of a soft scan - a backup. Instead of being activated when the capsuleer dies in the capsule, it's activated after the capsuleer dies outside of the capsule, and only contains memories up to the point of the last soft scan. It's similar to getting podded while you have more SP than your medical clone can hold.

Veik: What CONCORD views as illegal is one person having more than one 'instance' walking around at the same time. There's nothing wrong with having backups or spares in their eyes, it's when you have them walking around that they start to take issue. There was an AURORA event series a number of years back involving someone named Hyota Vasy over this specific issue.
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V. Gesakaarin

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Re: Memory tampering and downloading
« Reply #21 on: 07 Dec 2013, 08:55 »


Veik: What CONCORD views as illegal is one person having more than one 'instance' walking around at the same time. There's nothing wrong with having backups or spares in their eyes, it's when you have them walking around that they start to take issue. There was an AURORA event series a number of years back involving someone named Hyota Vasy over this specific issue.

Well yeah, what I was saying was logically there has to be some kind of "soft" cloning procedure in order to actually have some kind of multiple clone instance situation for CONCORD to make illegal in the first place.

Otherwise it makes no sense: There is no such thing like having a backup clone of yourself, it's impossible, but just to make sure it's impossible CONCORD thinks it's illegal to have multiple clones of yourself active.

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Ollie

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Re: Memory tampering and downloading
« Reply #22 on: 08 Dec 2013, 08:28 »

Apologies if I've missed the point or the reference somewhere else on the boards, but what's the PF case against having an out-of-date 'backup' of your infomorph data stored somewhere to be activated in the event of death outside the capsule?

edit: Nevermind, I got off my lazy backside and went and read Morwen's post on the first page of this thread :)

To get around the CCP view of it, why not just do away with the concept of soft-cloning/hard-cloning altogether?

ie, instead of preserving your brain you deliberately undergo induced brain death and brain-scan in a cloning facility similar to how it was presented in one of the recent expansion launch videos I think?

In the non-emergency situation (ie, not involving pod-breach) your static infomorph data could then be stored/backed-up/copied and activated at a later date. I suppose that method might also offer a reasonable explanation for the possibility of either memory modification or lockout.

I don't know of any PF that suggests the infomorph data must be deleted or destroyed after being transferred into a clone blank.

« Last Edit: 08 Dec 2013, 08:43 by Ollie »
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Ché Biko

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Transgressive Nikilaiki

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Re: Memory tampering and downloading
« Reply #24 on: 08 Dec 2013, 12:35 »

I think there was an old chron... Doppleganger?
Retconned out of existence by TonyG if I recall correctly. Basically, "it gives too many hints as to who The Broker is." That's really beside the point though. >.< Carry on!

Quote
I think it was that described how the Pend Insurance CEO was being investigated by CONCORD and asked some questions by DED types about if he had two clones active at the same time or if someone else was trying to impersonate him.
It seemed more like they were just confirming what they already knew, that someone used a clone that looked like him in order to get access somewhere.

Quote
That seemed to imply it was possible to have multiple copies and that CONCORD took a very dim view upon it. So what's wrong with softcloning? It ties into the whole multiple copies thing, and why would CONCORD make something illegal that could not occur with the technology available?
C3 article states it's possible to have multiple copies in existence at once. Clonejumping is a loophole in the laws preventing the keeping of multiple active clones.

You can have multiple clones around, but they can't be active copies with memories and feelings and --potentially the worst of all-- legal status. Without proper training/pharmaceuticals/medical facilities it leads to pretty nasty side effects as well. Long and the short of it, they don't want a "Insane zombie clone apocalypse".

Actual brain rewiring wouldn't be hard given that it's necessary to be able to use cybernetic implants (at least, understanding how NOT to rewire someone's brain negatively by shoving a circuit board into someone's spinal column and deep within the brain in order to allow them to fly a freakin' ship with their brain). It exists in multiple forms within chronicles and short stories (as well as one of TonyG's novellas). However, in my personal opinion, it does walk the line of godmodding even if done well EDIT: by players.

Is it necessary for SoCT RP? Definitely not. There are multiple ways to achieve greater awareness ("Hyperconsciousness", if you will), and a lot of what makes SoCT interesting is the fact that they seem to be interested in technological advancement as a means to enlightenment and evolution of humanity. SoCT wouldn't necessarily find Sansha's Nation aberrant, for instance. They're just doing what they can to overcome the limits of biology in the search for knowledge.

The SoCT might see the ends as noble even if the means are horrendous and deplorable. Does humanity always act in it's own self interest? No. Do individuals act in the self interest in others at all times? No. Why not enforce such until a time comes that humanity can do so themselves? That's the reason for laws, is it not? Altering the brain to be able to think about something greater first and their own preservation second isn't a bad thing, is it?

In the end, proper context is key to any plot device. Is there a moral or ethical conflict? How is this moral or ethical conflict addressed? Furthermore, would the fact that there are altered memories present even be something that would be known or be knowable by others? If it is not knowable, why pursue it as a plot point?
« Last Edit: 08 Dec 2013, 12:37 by Transgressive Nikilaiki »
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Lyn Farel

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Katrina Oniseki

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Re: Memory tampering and downloading
« Reply #26 on: 15 Dec 2013, 13:08 »

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=304334&p=2

Here we go again.  :(

Since that character belongs to a friend of mine and I have assisted the player with creating that character from the ground up, I'll answer this for you.

Saya Ishikari's eidetic memory has nothing to do with the learning skills or anything else in this thread. The Saya character is a genetics experiment (that somewhat failed) by the State using the tube child program, and having an eidetic memory is one of the intended results of her creation, along with a few other significant perks. Genetic engineering and rigorous training gave her those traits. It took years of planning, experiments, and a brutal childhood filled with too-sterile laboratories, testing, and training to get it. Not learning a skill ingame. She's also the only surviving subject of those experiments, and suffers greatly under countless side-effects and traumatic experiences. It's part of a roleplay backstory, not god-modding. Her memory is probably one of the very few things Saya has going for her, being almost completely inept in most other facets of life.

Don't be so quick to judge.
« Last Edit: 15 Dec 2013, 13:13 by Katrina Oniseki »
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Memory tampering and downloading
« Reply #27 on: 15 Dec 2013, 13:58 »

Memory not to just recall/store images/sounds/objects (as per wiki definition) like any storage memory implant, but to absord and process... a whole culture ?  :|

Feels like a strong déjà vu...

Or did I understand wrong somewhere ? My apologies if so...
« Last Edit: 15 Dec 2013, 14:04 by Lyn Farel »
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Katrina Oniseki

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Re: Memory tampering and downloading
« Reply #28 on: 15 Dec 2013, 16:52 »

Memory not to just recall/store images/sounds/objects (as per wiki definition) like any storage memory implant, but to absord and process... a whole culture ?  :|

Feels like a strong déjà vu...

Or did I understand wrong somewhere ? My apologies if so...

The post you linked blatantly invited you to come RP with her so that both the player can help develop the backstory more and so you can learn more about it. Perhaps you can take the player up on the offer and go work it out IC to a mutually reasonable solution instead of making a call-out here.

Lyn Farel

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Re: Memory tampering and downloading
« Reply #29 on: 15 Dec 2013, 17:01 »

Considering the IC answer I got to an invitation to clarify/explain/elaborate, I got the complete opposite feeling...

Well then, i'm happy it was not the case then... Sorry. :/
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