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[Ché Biko]

This conversation started in another thread, but I dislike making off-topic posts, and I thought this topic was worth it's own thread, so I made it.

Side note: I consider most tranfers of pod and cargo and the like to be done with more advanced versions of Star Trek transporters. I think it's makes the most sense, immersion wise, for near instantanious transfer of goods across hundreds of meters.

Transporters do not work in the world of New Eden.

The Jovian body part event was about a prototype that clearly did not function.

Hmm, I was not aware of that event, but that particular device works on a much bigger scale then what I'm talking about. While I'm not totally conviced that that event indicates that transporters don't work in New Eden (news articles I've read now indicate that it was sabotage, not technical failure), it could indicate that they only work for distances no longer than a few kilometers.

[Graelyn]

Early EvE lore was rather specific about this tech not existing.

Much like alien races, it was meant to distinguish the universe from other pop-scifi.

[Ember Vykos]

While I think it would be cool...I also am glad we don't have them. I like imagining the dock workers and ships crews moving the stuff with MTACs and loaders.

I've never actually thought about it before, but given EVEs technology it's a surprise that we don't have something similar or that it's not being worked on by some group of scientists out there. Never heard of the event Lallara mention, but I'm guessing that was WAY before my time.

[Esna Pitoojee]

Even more significant than the failure of the initial device is the fanfare with which it was rolled out, and the utter lack of any mention of similar technology since then. If they'd gone on to develop a successful Mark II version, I think it'd have been highlighted as well.

[Ember Vykos]

Don't suppose there's any linkage to be found for the failed attempt? I'm suddenly curious.

[Graelyn]

Well, EVE's technology is advanced, but not 'that' advanced, especially given the 30,000+ years weve had to develop it. In fact, as sci-fi universes go, given that much time, I'd say technology has developed in EVE at an extremely limited rate. Even the most backward universe will develop laser guns given enough centuries, and EVE is really only a step up from WH4k in that regard.
EVE is no gleaming future world, it's a grimy shithole where almost any advancement in tech came specifically from military application.

The largest Empire in existence still relies on subjugated manual labor.
AI development (and super-high-end computing) is abhorred and illegal.
The first truly transhuman race (sleepers) met with a grisly fate.
The second transhuman species (Unbound eggers) are barely tolerated in 'proper' society.
Matter replication and energy/mass manipulation are a long way off.
Post-scarcity in resources is not achieved anywhere except the Alpha-cities/worlds where the Fed concentrates it's wealth.

Along with this is the thematic aspect of EVE in which the most powerful and threatening forces and technologies in the world come not from an uncertain future (as in most Sci-fi), but rather from a dark and brutal past (as in most fantasy). This world, despite all it's shields and cynos, looks to relics and ancient lore as it's frontiers.

It's an aspect of the universe I think is absolutely vital to what EVE is, and why I enjoy letting my brain live there from time to time.

[Z.Sinraali]

The 'splodey Jovian: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Year_YC106

[Sepherim]

Well, EVE's technology is advanced, but not 'that' advanced, especially given the 30,000+ years weve had to develop it. In fact, as sci-fi universes go, given that much time, I'd say technology has developed in EVE at an extremely limited rate. Even the most backward universe will develop laser guns given enough centuries, and EVE is really only a step up from WH4k in that regard.
EVE is no gleaming future world, it's a grimy shithole where almost any advancement in tech came specifically from military application.

The largest Empire in existence still relies on subjugated manual labor.
AI development (and super-high-end computing) is abhorred and illegal.
The first truly transhuman race (sleepers) met with a grisly fate.
The second transhuman species (Unbound eggers) are barely tolerated in 'proper' society.
Matter replication and energy/mass manipulation are a long way off.
Post-scarcity in resources is not achieved anywhere except the Alpha-cities/worlds where the Fed concentrates it's wealth.

Along with this is the thematic aspect of EVE in which the most powerful and threatening forces and technologies in the world come not from an uncertain future (as in most Sci-fi), but rather from a dark and brutal past (as in most fantasy). This world, despite all it's shields and cynos, looks to relics and ancient lore as it's frontiers.

It's an aspect of the universe I think is absolutely vital to what EVE is, and why I enjoy letting my brain live there from time to time.

+1

[Silver Night]

Mining lasers, on the other hand, do use something vaguely teleporter-esque. I think it is only good for raw materials, though. If I remember right, it basically vaporizes material, and then draws it in along the beam.

[Horatius Caul]

Mining lasers, on the other hand, do use something vaguely teleporter-esque. I think it is only good for raw materials, though. If I remember right, it basically vaporizes material, and then draws it in along the beam.

Mining lasers are lasers + tractor beams. This is especially evident with the new mining graphics - you see the rotating cutting lasers and the tractor beam in the middle pulling in the ore.

As for teleportation... No, not in the Star Trek transporter sense of the technology. Jump drives, bridges, stargates and other wormhole transit methods are technically forms of teleportation, as they instantaneously transport matter across space. They are all wormholes though, so there's no matter-to-energy transfer going on.

Loot extraction is a gameplay > lore situation, but I believe the handwavium for it is "cargo drones."

[Ember Vykos]

The 'splodey Jovian: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Year_YC106

Thankies!!

[Mithfindel]

Yep, transporting/loading goods in EVE is drones and workers doing the lifting. Any teleportation is via wormholes. I guess technically some kind of a "hyperspace jump" might be on the very edge of what is possible, but would be very risky (as in, sending matter to the wormhole before it has stabilized and starting to close the wormhole from the origin before the matter has got thru, skipping the stable wormhole phase).

Even the Sansha, who are pretty much the most advanced wormhole-using race in the universe (perhaps save the Jove, who still were unable to prevent the Sansha from entering their systems) are unable to use transporters, and "uplifted" people with tractor beams.

There is one way, however, to "transport" a living being: Namely, doing a mind scan, killing the origin body (in case of slower scans, mainly for legal reasons), and then uploading the mind state to the target host body. Naturally, this approach does not work for goods. However, assuming enough raw materials are available or possible to generate using reactors, you could probably use nanites to construct relatively complex mechanisms. (Not sure if constructing a body or at least a sufficiently advanced brain in a jar would be possible with nanites.)

[lallara zhuul]

Doesn't the current (IRL) theories about wormholes suggest that they can also work through time as well as space?

Meaning that Sleepers could be from the future of the cluster?

This world, despite all it's shields and cynos, looks to relics and ancient lore as it's frontiers.

Also this, very much this.

All invention is done from decrypting ancient tech.

[Aelisha Montenagre]

Wormhole temporal dislocation is, (theoretically according to Schwarzchild et al.) the result of a persistent two-end connection experiencing relative difference in acceleration.  The two ends are subject to special relativity as are all bodies in motion throughout space time, with a 0.60C relative velocity (taking one end as 'at rest') a noticeable deviation in the rate of time experienced at both ends may be seen over time (Thorne, Kip 1994). 

This means that at high enough relative velocities, a 'present' (anchored) point would lead to a past (relativistic speed 'slowing' time) point.  There are conditions to this:

• The distance you can travel back/forth through time is bound by the lifespan of the wormhole.  The 'shared point of origin' is the backwards limit, I am unsure (due to this not being my field) if forwards travel is possible, as thinking on it, both ends would be in 'relative motion' from the perspective of one another.  Vaun (Kyber) would possibly have bigger academic stones to throw into that pond.
• We're employing eve-online handwavium to overcome the current 'Schwarzchild observation problem' (light cannot get over the event horizon before the wormhole collapses).  Mass-boson is an example of such handwavium.

IMO this means that the EVE gate, as a long lived wormhole MAY have had temporal dislocation properties, but the current naturally forming wormholes, with only 24 hrs lifespan, would not have sufficient time to form the relativistic properties required for this theoretical model to apply.  Of course we have other models and 'space magic' all of which are valid arguments in a fictional setting, but this is the general theory I apply (under several racial pseudonyms for the pre-warp scientists involved in theories when really pressed). 

Linkage for great justice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormhole) - citations available on demand (not many open journals and a lot of pseudoscience to trawl through for the very interested). 

Disclaimer: Yes, wikipedia, I know.  But it presents the nitty gritty in a pretty well edited way.

[Mithfindel]

I think this article is public. Or then my university just has the license to an odd journal, since we don't do space things here (might well be the case, if we share the license with other technical universities in Finland).

Also there is this: http://michaelakruis.blogspot.fi/2012/01/rja-2b.html (has very bad reference critics, though, linking to an astral mumbo-jumbo article - no offense if someone believes those things, but this far I don't think we can measure angels & spirits, therefore it is not science)