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[Ciarente]

I *think* that kresh is also a Herko invention that became canon when CCP published 'Cold Wind' as a chronicle.

[Svetlana Scarlet]

I do not know if I am going against the grain here, but the idea of non-Caldari getting poisoned by hak'len/kresh sounds like quackery, what with the amount of time the Caldari have been in space.

Well, kresh is a tree...so I don't think anyone was eating it (considering the climate, trees may even have been something imported from elsewhere). As far as the whole "non-Caldari being poisoned by XXX," why is that so hard to believe? There are certain populations in the world right now more prone to certain allergies or dietary problems, and why would you expect that you could transport humans halfway across the galaxy and have them be able to eat the local flora and fauna with no issue? There's nothing that says Earth amino acids, proteins, and other nutrients are the only ones out there. Besides, considering how long it has been since the original genemod and how long the Caldari have likely been interbreeding with non-Caldari, it's quite likely that ability is not restricted to Caldari anymore.

What does the amount of time Caldari have been in space have to do with that?

[orange]

There's nothing that says Earth amino acids, proteins, and other nutrients are the only ones out there.

Added wikipedia link - 500 amino acids are known to exist.  Terran, stock humans currently use 22 of these.

[Lyn Farel]

The problem for me is not that it makes it hard to believe (maybe just confirms their status of special snowflakes I have always the feeling to read when it's about Caldari) but the fact that a lot of Caldari players made up stuff starts to be used by groups of people, which gets us back to the exact same thing we had to deal with the last Tovil-Toba character or Napanii, and which is enforcing your own RP inventions on others.

I am fine with made up stuff that does not concern a whole faction or bloodline, but remains merely local.

I am also fine with world building concerning a whole faction (as opposed to local) as long as it is to discuss and imagine things OOCly.

I, however, take issue when that kind of world building starts to get used as PF.

[Matariki Rain]

I'm a little unsure of which things in the EVElopedia are canon and which aren't, but in addition to the brief article on Kresh trees there's also the clearly-canon article on Heart of the Forest: "Heart-of-the-Forest is the spirit of the mighty kresh trees, of things that are green and growing".

Neither of these sources directly mentions the toxicity of the plant, but the section on Tea - Caldari gives us:

Traditional Caldari tea is prepared from the leaves of the kresh trees that can be found in the Kaalakiota Peaks on Caldari Prime, the home of the precursors of the modern Caldari known as the Raata. It has a strong and very bitter taste, and is an integral part of traditional Caldari culture. Practices like the Tea Maker Ceremony, for example, are carried out by citizens and corporate heads alike, used as a form of divine judgement with potentially lethal consequences. Kresh tea is thus regarded as divine amongst the Caldari [....]

I read this as strongly suggestive of the toxicity of kresh, but not conclusive. The article on the Tea Maker Ceremony itself refers to "poisoned tea" rather than "poisonous tea", carrying the possible implication that poison has been added to the tea rather than that it's an inherent part of the tea.

Personally, I've been enjoying seeing the development of the Caldari relationship with kresh. Kresh is the protecting mother-figure which can also poison you if you're not Caldari enough. I'd previously found the assertions about how only Caldari could drink it to be a bit on the implausible side, but the idea of gene-modding the early colonists to make them more compatible with the biosphere of their harsh new planet makes an appealing kind of sense to me. I can see how the rituals around kresh could develop out of that -- Herko describes it as part of the coming-of-age ceremony -- and how they would in turn select for people who were better-able to tolerate kresh.

[Hamish Grayson]

A lot of us have RPed that it's not that poison was added but that there is a method of preparing it known to the tea makers that makes it poison or not.   Like blowfish.

I like Herko's works and will continue to use them in my RP, whether anyone takes issue or not.  It's also been my experience that the special snowflakes pop up less often in the Caldari community than others.

[Svetlana Scarlet]

I will point out that I don't think it's particularly implausible that all of the Eve races are genemods in some way; the Caldari may have the most extensive ones owing to the relative inhospitability of their homeworld, but there's nothing out there to dispute the fact that part of the reason the races have differentiation is because they were made to be that way 30000 years ago. The Ni-Kunni, if I remember right, come from an extremely arid world; I would not be surprised if they were originally genemodded to retain water better or tolerate warmer climes. The only reason I have though about this more with regard to the Caldari is...well, they are my primary area of concern. Being able to tolerate colder weather, thinner air, or digest food that suits their particular niche is hardly a "superpower."

[orange]

I, however, take issue when that kind of world building starts to get used as PF.

Do you take issue with CCP taking those world building efforts and turning it into PF?  Because it happens.

[Lyn Farel]

I do not take issue anymore when it becomes official.

Hak'len stuff, however, is not.

As I said, world building is fine as long as you don't start to enforce it on others that do not share that view. The only reason that made me stop opposing to that kind of things ICly is that from my last experiences on the matter, I do not have a high enough ratio on the popularity contest anymore, so better to shut up ICly rather than being ostracized permanently.

[Silver Night]

I would tend to consider the attributes of something player made also official when the thing itself is made PF, as with Kresh, unless there is reason not to. CCP looking at a player made idea and going 'Can we publish this?' is a pretty decent endorsement.

[Desiderya]

Does it matter whether Hak'len is PF or just cycled into use through player created fiction?
It's a minor thing and the impact on someone elses rp is rather miniscule, unless you explicitly want to go against that player created fiction because... not being able to drink a certain tea and/or kresh derivated drink is severely limiting your playstyle?
I'm kind of puzzled how this story arc thread has devolved into a discussion about hak'len.

[Lyn Farel]

It stops being minor when you stumble across a RP involving something you disagree with. Be it napanii or hak'len.

I mentioned it especially because it already happened to me. Caldari characters speaking about hak'len and telling non caldari people "you won't survive it". So, what is my character reaction ? It can only be based on an OOC feeling since it does not exist in PF and yet, impacts the whole race. What do I do ? Shrug it off ? Yes, I could. That's what I did by the way. I stepped out of the discussion pretty quick and the character though "I don't know that drink, I should seek more info on it". Of course, since it is quite obvious that info on such a drink impacting the whole Caldari race (and even the rest of the cluster too since they die of it) would be easily accessible. So my character should know after looking for it. But I, the player, can not accept it exists.

See the annoyance ?   

But yes, hak'len remains quite minor. Unlike Napanii. I am somehow fortunate that I do not mind Napanii too much as a player creation.

[Katrina Oniseki]

With all the gene modding available, you're suggesting to me that you can't get Lyn at least some resistance? Various implants and pills and :nanites: exist. there are a metric ton of ways you can work around the toxicity to emulate natural Caldari resistance to it.

That said, if you do that, prepare to be regarded with disgust and offense by actual Caldari, for doing that.

Nobody is saying YOU CAN'T EVER DRINK KRESH STUFF EVER EVER EVER. We're saying it's normally a Caldari-only thing, generally accepted by the Caldari RP community (as far as I can tell), and partially backed by CCP with mentions in the wiki.

[K_Wiroshoda]

This really does not read like sound science. I'm no immunologist, but what is being proposed is that the default human physiology does not agree with kresh. For some reason, the Caldari can consume it. This would infer they consumed it repeatedly, poisoned themselves repeatedly, killed themselves repeatedly, to gain an immunity to it? Why would they do that? How did they gain the immunity in the first place?

It seems very special snowflake-y for me to RP, but if other Caldari agree with it, it puts my own interactions in a difficult position, because I with a Caldari character do not agree with the idea.

[Pieter Tuulinen]

Human beings can easily form a RESISTANCE, not an immunity, to something that is toxic to humans who have not formed a resistance or compatibility.

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/tolerance

It is called acquiring a tolerance. Tolerance can be acquired over the lifetime of an individual and a higher than average tolerance can be passed down - especially in a marginal ecosystem like Caldari Prime, where the toxic foodstuff might be an important subsistence crop during the hard times.