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[Svetlana Scarlet]

Because it doesn't make much sense, mostly, and because it continues the way CCP has been writing the Caldari for the last 5 years where they seem to have forgotten how the Caldari were set up in the first place. You know, where there's no central authority and the central government only exists at the whim of the megacorps because they each have personal armies that dwarf the State's military? Instead, we have another boring fascist government where the ones with actual power seem to have forgotten they have the ability to tell a demagogue dragging them down "go fuck yourself". I get tired of the legitimate states of the cluster being made out to be horrible places, full of idiots and sneering villains, but the parasites that live on the fringes of society and survive by sponging off it are really not that bad and totally super awesome, man. Down with the system!

Fuuuuuuck that. Svetlana may not like the Federation or the Republic (or the Empire entirely, for that matter), but she still puts them head and shoulders above any of the "pirate empires." And it's been far too long since any of the empire RPers have had anything they could truly rally around. Give us something to fight for rather than fight against, for crying out loud. You want to know why Caldari RP has been sucked out? Because most Caldari RPers have gotten tired of trying to justify or go along with the utterly retarded and pointless acts of their faction. Why has Federation RP had such a shitty time since forever? Because CCP has made them so fucking bland for so long, and then turned them into incompetent boobs and caricatures of the worst parts of post-9/11 America that it's hard for anyone to actually feel passionate about their ideals. The Amarr and Minmatar have easy rallying cries (religion and abolition, respectively), but even they could use something more meaty.

[Ollie]

Fair enough and good answer. Rather than potentially derailing this thread, I'll make a new one to see if anyone's interested in discussing 'possible' plotlines or ideas we'd like to see in events that focus on Empire/Fed/State/Republic RP?

[Nicoletta Mithra]

The Amarr and Minmatar have easy rallying cries (religion and abolition, respectively), but even they could use something more meaty.

I don't mean to derail this thread, but really, this is so making me twitch. The Caldari and the Federation aren't portrayed sophisticated enough and that's bad for numerous reasons, but it's good that the Amarr and Matar have 'easy rallying cries'? Amarr RP is suffering for quite some time under how the Amarr are portrayed by PF. I heared the Matari did, too and I'd agree. The Caldari (and Feds) aren't the only ones suffering here.

I mean, really, if the simple rallying cires ar OK for you, Heth is offering plenty of these, it's nothing meaty, but hey: It's not that bad, is it?

[Svetlana Scarlet]

I did say that the Amarr and Minmatar could use something more meaty, but they do have something to fall back on if that doesn't come through. The Caldari and Gallente do not really have that. I agree, I would like to see the Amarr have a reason to fight other than "rawr, for god!" and the Minmatar have something other than "rawr, slavery", but at least you HAVE that. Can you tell me what the Caldari and Gallente are fighting over now?

[Desiderya]

Rawr, for the homeworld.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

Rawr, for the homeworld.

That, exactly, Svetlana. Thanks Des.

Feds have:

Rawr, for Freedom.
Rawr, for individuality.
Rawr, for democracy.
Rawr, for human rights.

I can go on...

[Svetlana Scarlet]

Rawr, for the homeworld.

Except that CCP spent the first five years of Eve's existence claiming that most Caldari didn't seriously consider Caldari Prime worth fighting over. And now, it's not under any sort of actual threat.

And yes, Nicoletta, the Gallente have that, but...that's not a reason really to fight AGAINST anyone. They aren't at war with the Caldari because of any of those reasons. They're at war because...well, who knows. They certainly aren't under an existential threat from the Caldari (or at least, they shouldn't be).

[Nicoletta Mithra]

Of course it is, the Caldari are against freedom, against democracy, against individual human rights.

The cheap lines are cheap lines, true, but that's as well going for the Matari and Amarr.

[Anslol]

Rawr, for saving face and reinforcing the population view that we are avenging the people of Nouvelle Rouvenor...even though we started it all by being dicks.

That's basically the motivation. That and hurrhurr affront to our ideals from a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT RACE. Hey let's kill them all and teach them a lesson!

Yes, I'm jaded/bitter. Sue me.

[ArtOfLight]

Malcolm often chooses to argue that the Caldari are fighting against the hypocritical Federation. A Federation that espouses freedom, but only if you do it their way. A Federation that champions individual liberty and equality, but only if you have good representation in Congress. A Federation that continues to assert their superiority over anyone else.

Fighting for Caldari Prime is well and good, given the cultural importance to the Caldari, but Caldari Prime is simply a symbol, representing all that the Caldari are APART from the Federation.

[BloodBird]

Because it doesn't make much sense, mostly, and because it continues the way CCP has been writing the Caldari for the last 5 years where they seem to have forgotten how the Caldari were set up in the first place. You know, where there's no central authority and the central government only exists at the whim of the megacorps because they each have personal armies that dwarf the State's military? Instead, we have another boring fascist government where the ones with actual power seem to have forgotten they have the ability to tell a demagogue dragging them down "go fuck yourself". I get tired of the legitimate states of the cluster being made out to be horrible places, full of idiots and sneering villains, but the parasites that live on the fringes of society and survive by sponging off it are really not that bad and totally super awesome, man. Down with the system!

Fuuuuuuck that. Svetlana may not like the Federation or the Republic (or the Empire entirely, for that matter), but she still puts them head and shoulders above any of the "pirate empires." And it's been far too long since any of the empire RPers have had anything they could truly rally around. Give us something to fight for rather than fight against, for crying out loud. You want to know why Caldari RP has been sucked out? Because most Caldari RPers have gotten tired of trying to justify or go along with the utterly retarded and pointless acts of their faction. Why has Federation RP had such a shitty time since forever? Because CCP has made them so fucking bland for so long, and then turned them into incompetent boobs and caricatures of the worst parts of post-9/11 America that it's hard for anyone to actually feel passionate about their ideals. The Amarr and Minmatar have easy rallying cries (religion and abolition, respectively), but even they could use something more meaty.

There should be a like system for posts like this.

Why is there not a like system for posts like this?

Rawr, for the homeworld.

Except that CCP spent the first five years of Eve's existence claiming that most Caldari didn't seriously consider Caldari Prime worth fighting over. And now, it's not under any sort of actual threat.

And yes, Nicoletta, the Gallente have that, but...that's not a reason really to fight AGAINST anyone. They aren't at war with the Caldari because of any of those reasons. They're at war because...well, who knows. They certainly aren't under an existential threat from the Caldari (or at least, they shouldn't be).

Well, frankly they are at war because the State invaded them. If the invasion had never happened there would still be peace and quiet. They had no reason to go to war at all, and as far as EVE's history is concerned, the only time the Fed has been aggressive about starting a conflict was to stomp Sansha, otherwise all their conflicts have been started by others.

They did not even care to deck the Serpentis despite countless reasons to do so :/

[Svetlana Scarlet]

The Caldari didn't really have any reason to fight either. This is the issue with the whole thing...the entire conflict between the Caldari and Gallente is a contrivance, and it feels like a contrivance. Both sides have no long term interest in the fighting continuing...yet they have to go through the motions because CCP demands it.

[Gesakaarin]

Right now I sometimes think if it would be far more interesting if all the Empire's get brought to the negotiating table by CONCORD to declare official ceasefires (but not an actual end to the official wars) and have the CEWPA zones turn into the New Eden version of the Koran DMZ where capsuleers fight an actual proxy conflict in a new cold war. Then make it clear that from an official standpoint at least all the CONCORD signatories will say, "There is no war, we're at peace, everyone is happy now."

With no more official war, the occurrence of violence in the CEWPA zones are simply minor disagreements by "Sanctioned Peacekeepers". It would also be more fun where if FW was more about fighting an ambiguous war more about new profit opportunities for armaments sales for corporate mercenaries than the current contrivance where it has to be pushed primarily through factional extremists.

[Svetlana Scarlet]

Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel. Turn all lowsec into disputed territories, end the "war" and return to the cold war posture from before TEA with privateers.

[Gesakaarin]

I also think what would be interesting is if there was a brokered peace so to speak if there was an ability for the pirate factions to get involved in FW. What I mean by this is that with the pullout of military assets from the CEWPA zones would be seen as opportunity for criminal cartels to move in and make use of the chaos and devastation.

You could have them used as opposing proxies and sometime allies, as in the State helping to fund the Serpentis activities in Placid and the Fed funding Gurista in Black Rise. It would certainly add scope for all sorts of shenanigans in low-sec as government mercenary "peacekeepers" and their "pirate" allies attempt to screw each other over, all the while denying that any such dubious activities are in fact taking place in the former warzones.