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[Silas Vitalia]

JinOtsi,

It looks based on your responses and focus on 'summit rules' and maneuvering in and around them that you are an alt of someone with issues with the channel in general.

I'm also going to assume a lot of this has more to do with that than anything else, and see my way out of this discussion.

It's a very familiar tone reminiscent of a lot of Leo posts, and as I happen to like Leo and am one of the few people on backstage and probably the only moderator that tries to stick up for him even when he's not being particularly nice, I'll see my way out.

[Aldrith Shutaq]

Actaully I agree, this seems perfectly plausible IC behavior for a capsuleer who is irreverent and unconcerned with much pretaining to non-capsuleers. The character could even have been drunk. After seeing the logs, I can't really say if there was OOC asshattery going on, but even if there was it was relatively minor and still within the realm of presenting a plausible character.

That character was certainly being a classless asshat, though.

[JinOtsi]

That character was certainly being a classless asshat, though.

Thank you. Mission accomplished.

And no, Silas. I have no issue with the channel, but when moderators (who weren't present at the time even) start calling me a troll and worse, as well as seeing CCP Falcon call me stupid publicly I get somewhat pissed off. It's completely unacceptable behavior by him and something I didn't expect from the mods.

[lallara zhuul]

The actor was RP'd at.

Not roleplayed with.

Makes all the difference.

[BloodBird]

Yes, one day we'll have a place where we only let the good people in.

Who would we allow on such a prestigious list?

Say to yourself "Me, of course", and maybe you can hear me laugh from all the way over here.

Don't put words in my mouth. Being frustrated by the lack of quality in a specific location and wondering if the lack of quality can ever be amended 'so that we can have nice things' (such as a worthwhile place to RP) is not the same as asking that we 'let only nice people in' - I would never ask something that dumb, simply because I would not be included in such an elitist 'in-group'.

People are allowed to be dissatisfied with the quality of things without being made fun off.

I doubt the dev actor left because he was trolled. If he did, that actually seems rather ridiculous to me, and I don't blame the trolls either.

EVE has been nurtured and fostered as a majority community of trolls. Trolling CCP is nothing new ingame. Dev actors get shot at, CCP fleets get smacked in local, and the forums are a cesspool... yet CCP seems to often encourage this behavior, oftentimes by trolling alongside players.

Why should they expect a pristine and perfect community in RP? I wouldn't understand why the RP community would be held to such lofty and strict standards by the very developers who have not only fostered this community, but also take part in it with their unofficial accounts.

If the dev actor ran away with his tail tucked between his legs because he got trolled in the Summit, boo-freaking-hoo. Grow some thick skin and put up your IC fisticuffs. If someone is really acting out of line, the Summit mods will step in.

Keep in mind I'm not defending trolls. I'm criticizing whoever that actor was for leaving 'because they got trolled', if indeed that is the reason.

TL;DR
I don't think the RP community should have to 'behave' any more than they usually do just because it's a dev actor.

I don't think we as RP'ers should have to behave better than 'the common players' either - I believe it's possible to expect something better than flaming, trolling and crap from your average player in general, despite what CCP may or may not endorse or allow or agree to. Hoping and wishing that the playerbase in general can rise above pointless trolling is not a crime and carries no penalty, bar perhaps constant dissapointment.

Without hearing from the actor him/herself, we will not know why exactly he/she left. Ergo, we can only draw conclusions based on what took place prior to the event itself. It is not hard to propose that the actor left because the only meaningful responce to their presence was ridicule over soem fact or other, and even leaving in that situation can be considered an IC act. "So, no-one here but trolls and none seem interested, I'll go ask elsewhere."

Lovely to see the Eve RP community in it's finest form, somehow managing to create entire fowlfarms out of a feather. The sheer hunger for things to drama about must be endless. Now how about someone who was actually involved provides a couple of details before the lynchmob gets too much momentum, shall we?

Jin Otsito, a relatively fresh egger spots something new and potentially interesting. Someone with no profile picture. She points this out with a bit of mirth, then as there's no answer fills the silence with a few terribly bad puns on face. Mostly they're even so bad they don't qualify as puns, instead just using the word face in appropriate spots in her statements.

There was no trolling. There was no teasing. There was no derisiveness or taunts. There was no hostility. There was nothing but a little bad and silly humor. In fact, let me dig up the logs for you ladies and gentlemen.

[ 2012.12.03 17:08:46 ] Anderes Duellene > Good evening, Ladies and Gentlemen.
 [ 2012.12.03 17:09:12 ] Solarienne > Sasieni
 [ 2012.12.03 17:09:52 ] Jinari Otsito > Did you know you have no face?
 [ 2012.12.03 17:10:13 ] Lasairiona > /emote giggles, "Hello."
 [ 2012.12.03 17:11:44 ] Scherezad > "Um, hello, sir. My, uh, my deepest, um. Condolences."
 [ 2012.12.03 17:12:19 ] Jinari Otsito > Don't get too misty, I'm sure he can find his face someday.
 [ 2012.12.03 17:12:34 ] Jinari Otsito > Or has something happened, maybe?
 [ 2012.12.03 17:15:30 ] Scherezad > "Um, the, the events at, um, Evaulon."
 [ 2012.12.03 17:15:41 ] Jinari Otsito > Ah. I suppose he lost face.
 [ 2012.12.03 17:16:02 ] Lasairiona > /emote waves, "Hi Schere."
 [ 2012.12.03 17:16:31 ] Scherezad > "Um, he, he lost, um, a lot more. Than, um, face. Oh, um, hello."
 [ 2012.12.03 17:16:54 ] Dardalou Tokila > He might have lost his face and honor after the mentioned events?
 [ 2012.12.03 17:17:05 ] Jinari Otsito > Well, I'm sure the Serpents will show themselves for a... face off.
 [ 2012.12.03 17:18:35 ] Lasairiona > I think you scared him off.
 [ 2012.12.03 17:19:00 ] Jinari Otsito > And I didn't even have to make a scary face.
 [ 2012.12.03 17:20:01 ] Anderes Duellene > Perhaps I'll return later, when conversation reaches the appropriate level of maturity for what I have to say.
 [ 2012.12.03 17:20:06 ] Anderes Duellene > Good evening, pilots.
 [ 2012.12.03 17:20:14 ] Anderes Duellene > /emote disconnects
 [ 2012.12.03 17:20:41 ] Jinari Otsito > Hmm. Would have thought he could face worse than that.
 [ 2012.12.03 17:23:20 ] Lasairiona > /emote groans and shakes her head.

So as you can see, quite clearly, there was no trolling. There was a character acting perfectly IC in a slightly silly way. Frankly, having seen what can go on without comment in The Summit, this is Shakespearean prose. I have in the short life-span of Jinari seen people get farted on(!) for christ's sake. I also have yet to spot any rules against jokes or bad humor. If the above isn't acceptable, I'm going to have to go ahead and ask the moderators to look over this thread, because it's getting dangerously close to urdoinitrong which the rules do in fact prohibit.

As for CCP Falcon, calling paying subscribers stupid (exact word used) for RPing with his actor without going stoneface serious business right off the bat, I find quite unacceptable from an official representative of CCP. Players in moderator positions and such get some leeway for being simply that. Players in voluntary positions. Official CCP representatives should act more professional in my opinion.

Don't worry, though. I'll leave the Summit to the completely serious business that is the hallmark of the channel while there's Yellow there, shall I?

It is perfectly possible to be trolled IC.

You trolled the actor IC, said actor decided to leave and (perhaps) return later, IC. All perfectly valid - he even made a point out of detailing that he disconnected from the summit, instead of just leaving without a word.

As for you personally Jinari, arguing that trolling is not A-OK and pointing out that your displeased with it having effectively 'scared off' a Dev (or a new player, or another older player or ANYONE really) is not saying 'yourdoingitwrong' it's voicing an opinion that happen to be negatively charged towards you as the one engaging in said trolling.

You seem very eager to have the rules of this forum protect you from anyone who voices displeasure towards your actions, but you will want to consider that just because the summit should not be 'stone-faced srsbiz' all the time, people have a right to hope it will be more than baseless fooling around as well - while perfectly okay as an IC action, it's not mandatory, and one can lay off when we actually get some CCP love in the form of dev actors, hopefully leading to great RP.

Tell me again how ofthen that happens, would you? It won't kill you to cut them some slack.

To finish this, kindly tell me where CCP Falcon supposedly called you stupid for RP'ing with him.

[Katrina Oniseki]

After reading the logs, I found Jin's posts to be amusing, actually. Hell, Katrina might have joined in too!

I still stand by what I said earlier also. If Jin's no-face comments are what drove CCP Falcon off, that's ridiculous. It takes all of one minute to type, "Apologies. CONCORD can be slow to provide NEOCOMS with portrait updates." Instead, we see a minor hissyfit and disconnect?

He literally only said hello. Offered no real meat of conversation, then expected everyone IC to gather around and listen intently to what he has to say? Sure that makes sense OOC... dev actor and all, rare appearance. But point out to me why some guy from Combined Harvest should expect and DEMAND the immediate and completely serious attentions of every capsuleer in that channel simply by saying hello. I'll answer myself for you. There is no reason. He's just another face that's connected, yellow text or not. He doesn't even represent an entity that's particularly important.

Let me spell this out clearly for everyone following along still:

OOC - the Dev actor should grow some thicker skin when connecting to The Summit. Assuming the actor was actually CCP Falcon, he knew what to expect walking into that channel. It's not difficult to come up with an IC response or dismissal of a single person being too playful. It wasn't a dogpile, or an attack, or even a trivialization of the live event. It was standard fare Summit RP. I mean that literally... that's the usual for Summit RP, not the worst or even the bad. Just people being silly and enjoying themselves.

IC - Anderes Duellene is a no-name nobody from an agricultural food supply corp. He's got no reputation preceding him, nor any visible sign of importance. All he said was a simple hello. No news or announcements were made following that. Nothing was said that other characters might say "Oh wait, this is serious." There was only a greeting.... then silence. What was the purpose of him connecting? Why does my character even care what he has to say? Considering my character is generally one of the more serious types (most of the time), if I can't find a reason why Katrina would care... that tells you something.

The simple implication is that the dev actor expected us all to sit down and shut up just because there was yellow text. No. If that's true, that's not cool.

[Khloe]

His first mistake was to come to the Summit for mature roleplay.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

Gyra has spoken!

[Tiberious Thessalonia]

Look, no one was banned or even formally warned over it.

I just wanted this out here.  The RP community has been waiting for years for some sort of interaction with CCP.  Falcon and Eterne are providing that and being kind enough to come into one of the main RP channels to interact with us, rather than ignoring us.

[JinOtsi]

Look, no one was banned or even formally warned over it.

I just wanted this out here.  The RP community has been waiting for years for some sort of interaction with CCP.  Falcon and Eterne are providing that and being kind enough to come into one of the main RP channels to interact with us, rather than ignoring us.

Which is all well and good. Being condemned as a troll by the moderators is not. That's just a douche move given the complete lack of IC or OoC trolling. Falcon's comments in OoC are now a non-issue, though. I've talked with him and that's dealt with. He's shown himself to be more professional than that indicated, afterwards.

[BloodBird]

You have yet to show us where a CP employee alligedly called you stupid in an OOC situation. Would you kindly provide, or do I have to assume that you were just spreading libel?

[JinOtsi]

You have yet to show us where a CP employee alligedly called you stupid in an OOC situation. Would you kindly provide, or do I have to assume that you were just spreading libel?

The issue has been dealt with directly with CCP Falcon through the petition system. I consider the subject closed and dealt with. If you really can't handle a lack of information on the subject, you'd be better off asking others for logs, as logs from me could be just as fictitious as the words I'm typing right now.

[BloodBird]

That was not really the point, I don't - or rather did not - care if you had settled the issue or not. You claimed that a dev actor had insulted you personally in an OOC, not IC, manner, and pointed out how bad this was of a CCP employee. Obviously you expected us to believe this and take your side and agree that this was a bad thing to do.

So all I have to say is, I agree. It would be bad to make such a remark from a CCP employee to a 'paying customer' of said corporation, but you never provided any proof to back this claim up.

As such I wondered if this was possibly just an attempt on your end to get attention away from your actions (that was being discussed in this tread) and onto a different topic. The entire situation might be resolved by now, but I would still have desired a clear answer on this question, if I had not stopped caring wether you lie or not at this point.

And I dont care anymore. So whatever, carry on.

*EDIT* Should add that I actualyl am glad to see the issue resolved. Thanks for dealing with that in a civilized manner, I hope he returns to the Summit soon and are met with some good RP time.

[Ollie]

After reading the logs, I found Jin's posts to be amusing, actually.

First and foremost, I agree with this. Jin's comments were in keeping with the level of maturity of the character and can't really be made to reflect on the player behind Jin. Yeah, it was borderline trolling - maybe that's what Jin is designed to come off as in-character though.

That said ...

If Jin's no-face comments are what drove CCP Falcon off, that's ridiculous. It takes all of one minute to type, "Apologies. CONCORD can be slow to provide NEOCOMS with portrait updates." Instead, we see a minor hissyfit and disconnect?

Not sure it was a rage disconnect. Maybe just a 'I've got better things to do, including update my portrait maybe'. Admittedly, I haven't seen logs of the alleged 'stupid' comment made OOC afterwards but even if that is true a lot worse stuff gets said on OOC imo.

Perhaps the benefit of the doubt could be applied here?

Here's a character who has just lost thousands of people who were friends and colleagues in a terrorist incident of unprecedented scale. Maybe he had a short fuse even before that. Maybe he's always been a prick. Maybe he's in the acute stages of grief. Maybe he's been thrust into a position by the events in Evaulon that he's hopelessly underprepared for. Or, outside of EVE, maybe his kid fell off the slide out back and he needed to go check on that instead of playing around with wise-cracking pixels on a screen. Whatever the case can't we simply take it on spec that he might be acting within the boundaries of his character and in turn react ICly ourselves?

Or do we just label him with the 'urnotdoinitrite' tag? Because we all know how much we appreciate that being applied to ourselves.

[Alain Colcer]

I love the fact CCP attempted some mild RP interaction and we just started a whole drama with petitions involved...

nothing like EvE