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[Halete]

Excuse the minor rant.

So I have to ask if anybody has noticed this or if I'm just going crazy.

But whenever FW comes up on the IGS it just stinks of video-games.

And yeah, I totally get that sometimes it's because people who aren't RPers get wind of their corpies' threads or whatever and go on a 'let's shit up IGS with OOC' kick. I totally get that.

But the part that really jumps out at me and throws me into amber alert is that, there are a lot of RPer-types whose characters seem to come apart a bit at the edges in FW threads or discuss goings-on in a way that... just doesn't fit. It comes across too OOC, to me, even when it is intended to be IC.

Does anyone else have feelings on this? Or on the quality of FW threads in IGS in general?

[ArtOfLight]

As I've stated before, Faction Warfare is pretty much RP suicide. A good majority of active RPers have taken to the viewpoint that it's all pointless and only morons and short-sighted people participate in it. It's frustrated and can really discourage people from participating in it, which is sad.

There's a lot you can RP from it but it requires you to look past the "war never ends."

[hellgremlin]

Well, to be fair, anyone role-playing a character that they want to portray as halfway perceptive HAS TO see FW as a pointless war without end - because that's precisely what it is. There are no concrete victories to achieve, just systems changing hands, and any character that isn't consumed with bloodlust for "the enemy" would begin to see the futility of it.

[ArtOfLight]

Well, to be fair, anyone role-playing a character that they want to portray as halfway perceptive HAS TO see FW as a pointless war without end - because that's precisely what it is. There are no concrete victories to achieve, just systems changing hands, and any character that isn't consumed with bloodlust for "the enemy" would begin to see the futility of it.

Oh, I agree completely and I hope it didn't seem like I was suggesting otherwise.

What I mean is that it's entirely possible for a character to have a motivation for entering other than "winning" the unwinnable war. For example, Malcolm joined with the express purpose of securing some level of stability to state-side systems and keep them from changing hands, allowing the planet and stationside populations some measure of security and stability.

Azdan will likely join for similar reasons.

[Silas Vitalia]

I imagine patriotic capsuleers can be quite aware of the pointless nature. knowing they can never 'win' but also acknowledging that they must fight to prevent a 'loss' due to inaction...

Still the gameplay limitations for FW make it extremely difficult to not be cynical IC.

[Matariki Rain]

"It's hard to avoid the sense that this limited war is designed to 'keep the capsuleers busy'. Within that framework we can still hope to free each system for long enough to evacuate our people, even if that does leave a huge swathe of lowsec as the skeleton-staffed playground of podders."

"Alliances such as Nulli have treated this as a game."

[Esna Pitoojee]

I imagine patriotic capsuleers can be quite aware of the pointless nature. knowing they can never 'win' but also acknowledging that they must fight to prevent a 'loss' due to inaction...

This is pretty much where Esna is...

Still the gameplay limitations for FW make it extremely difficult to not be cynical IC.

...and why he won't be staying anyhow.

[Vieve]

"It's hard to avoid the sense that this limited war is designed to 'keep the capsuleers busy'. Within that framework we can still hope to free each system for long enough to evacuate our people, even if that does leave a huge swathe of lowsec as the skeleton-staffed playground of podders."

"Alliances such as Nulli have treated this as a game."

"'How are you ever going to be a proper terrorist if you only hit military targets?'

'I am not a terrorist.'

'You should be. You of all people should know that we are not just fighting this proxy war with the Caldari, but a very real one against the growing capsuleer oligarchies. The weaker they are, the more fragmented, the more 'free' from obligation to one another, the stronger the Federation becomes. Destroy their factories, their mines, their workers, their slaves, and they will...'

'I am not failing to follow your logic, I am just ... and the State becomes stronger. And the Empire. And the Republic. What of that?'

'Different fronts. Different wars. You have been given a unique opportunity to fight in this one. Do your damn job, Deputy! Yes, you are a monster. Quite so. It is beyond time for you to start acting like one, rather than luxuriating in fantasies of being...' "

[Alain Colcer]

I imagine patriotic capsuleers can be quite aware of the pointless nature. knowing they can never 'win' but also acknowledging that they must fight to prevent a 'loss' due to inaction...

Still the gameplay limitations for FW make it extremely difficult to not be cynical IC.

exactly my dilemma

[Silas Vitalia]

Of course one possible solution to this is to flip the system properties and turn -every- empire system vulnerable to faction warfare.

You better believe every single RPer would get involved if we were talking about taking control of the home front.

[Desiderya]

I just think it's inviting the usual chestbeating and bringing in the not-really-RPers in the militias into the IGS, leading to a mixture of trolling and skirting the OOC line.

I also do not see FW as RP killer. It is easy to justify involvement from a patriotic as well as a practical viewpoint, and it is equally easy to say why you're a loyalist but not keen on contributing in the proxy war. In my opinion it's a win/win. What makes it problematic for RP is the usual situation that you'll have to interact with lots of people that are no roleplayers.
Having said that, everything except 100% IGS/Channel-RP is a roleplay killer if you apply high standards.

[Silas Vitalia]

I just think it's inviting the usual chestbeating and bringing in the not-really-RPers in the militias into the IGS, leading to a mixture of trolling and skirting the OOC line.

I also do not see FW as RP killer. It is easy to justify involvement from a patriotic as well as a practical viewpoint, and it is equally easy to say why you're a loyalist but not keen on contributing in the proxy war. In my opinion it's a win/win. What makes it problematic for RP is the usual situation that you'll have to interact with lots of people that are no roleplayers.
Having said that, everything except 100% IGS/Channel-RP is a roleplay killer if you apply high standards.

Disagree, it's the low standards set by the capture and control gameplay that kills the RP. 

[Merdaneth]

I just think it's inviting the usual chestbeating and bringing in the not-really-RPers in the militias into the IGS, leading to a mixture of trolling and skirting the OOC line.

I also do not see FW as RP killer. It is easy to justify involvement from a patriotic as well as a practical viewpoint, and it is equally easy to say why you're a loyalist but not keen on contributing in the proxy war. In my opinion it's a win/win. What makes it problematic for RP is the usual situation that you'll have to interact with lots of people that are no roleplayers.
Having said that, everything except 100% IGS/Channel-RP is a roleplay killer if you apply high standards.

Alt spies, people with high militia ranks without noteworthy contribution to the war, people moving from Crusade to TLF and back again multiple times, pirate members who target everyone, terrible inter-militia conflicts and horrible game mechanics. The best tactics invite absolutely unAmarrian RP behaviour, which is kinda problematic for a loyalist player. FW is RP-ing on Nightmare mode, an be a lot of fun though. Also, RP-ing with enemies often goes well, and, oddly, most 24th Crusade members have some grudging respect (even love?) for the Amarr Empire and everything around it as a vague RP concept.

Oddly enough, Empire seems to attract the most anarchistic and anti-authoritarian of corps/players. It seems getting noses to point in the same direction has always been harder in the 24th Crusade than in other factions.

[Graelyn]

Well, to be fair, anyone role-playing a character that they want to portray as halfway perceptive HAS TO see FW as a pointless war without end - because that's precisely what it is. There are no concrete victories to achieve, just systems changing hands, and any character that isn't consumed with bloodlust for "the enemy" would begin to see the futility of it.

I should agree...except for one caveat:

One side (AmCal/MilGal) has never held the field. One race or the other has won their side, but never both that are necessary.

If there is an endgame scenario, that is it. The little tiny childlike voice of innocence and hope I still have in me and haven't killed off yet says that once those conditions are met, a big red light will go off, klaxxons will sound throughout Reykjavik (to the utter confusion of the locals) and CCP Clover will burst from a fissure in the steaming earth to proclaim "EXECUTE PLAN R"...

Sorry, I don't know what came over me there...

[ArtOfLight]

"Plan R" for "Plan Reclaiming" right? Because that's how it's going to go down.