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[Lyn Farel]

This is a question now that I have asked myself for a long time and I decided to share it when I read today the thread on the IGS where Bastian got stomped by the whole mob once again for being a politician.

Why are characters like Seriphyn, Bastian Valoron, or Diana Kim, Rodj Blake almost universally despised, except maybe by their side ? Is that too much factionnalism or bias ? I thought it could be, but they are nothing compared to a lot of other characters. Is that because they are out of the loop OOCly ? Is that about IC/OOC bleedovers ? I mean, why more than anyone else speaking on the IGS ? I mean, why all the bloodthirsty minmatar barely get any flak everytime they open their mouths ?

I have my own ideas on the subject, but I would be interested to hear your thoughts about it, because to be honest, it almost makes no sense to me.

[Kybernetes Moros]

When a heavily politicised face is the one exposed IC, they will tend to get a lot of IC flak for it. I've seen the same happen to more or less any faction's supporters.

OOC, I have no particular issue with the characters beyond finding reappropriating First they came... for the Caldari particularly distasteful.

[Jev North]

Diana Kim is an obvious Gallente plant.

[Lyn Farel]

When a heavily politicised face is the one exposed IC, they will tend to get a lot of IC flak for it. I've seen the same happen to more or less any faction's supporters.

What do you mean ? I am not sure to understand.

OOC, I have no particular issue with the characters beyond finding reappropriating First they came... for the Caldari particularly distasteful.

How is that distateful ? Because it is an obvious reference to RL History ?

[Ken]

In the case of Kim and Valoron, many characters dislike (even despise) them because often enough they say things that are offensive IC.  These are characters who either hold outlying views and/or who have the audacity to express more extreme views in public.

Kim regarding Gallente a politician (Valoron actually ):

The proper solution would be cutting his hands off. That will stop him for some time at least.
Well, and his nose too.

Valoron regarding the Caldari:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1797199#post1797199

Take note that Valoron wasn't "stomped" in this case for being a politician.  He was "stomped" for being a racist.  Personally, I am happy to see characters with unshakeable and unpopular opinions, but everyone should expect the more moderate heads in the crowd to treat them with some measure of IC disapproval.

I've never had a character that despised Seriphyn and I think it's fair to say his politics are quite a bit less extreme than either of the two above.  Never interacted with Rodj so I can't comment on him either.

[Tiberious Thessalonia]

When a heavily politicised face is the one exposed IC, they will tend to get a lot of IC flak for it. I've seen the same happen to more or less any faction's supporters.

What do you mean ? I am not sure to understand.

OOC, I have no particular issue with the characters beyond finding reappropriating First they came... for the Caldari particularly distasteful.

How is that distateful ? Because it is an obvious reference to RL History ?

Because it is a trivialization of an important quote and real history of one of the worst things humanity has ever done to itself. to score cheap political points in internet spaceships lolrp.  That's pretty damn offensive.

[Ken]

Because it is a trivialization of an important quote and real history of one of the worst things humanity has ever done to itself. to score cheap political points in internet spaceships lolrp.  That's pretty damn offensive.

I personally don't find the variation on the RL statement "First they came..." to be offensive OOC.  I extracted a WW2 quote for use when writing the Hitchhiker's Guide and I think it did its job fairly well.  Valoron made a bit of a mess of "First they came..." by dragging it on and on and using it perhaps at a less than optimal opportunity, but any moral objection I have toward it is purely IC.

[John Revenent]

Diana Kim is an obvious Gallente plant.

I doubt that, Diana Kim became active in the RP community during the I-RED - Wolfsbrigade war becoming the main voice to speak out against I-RED on the side of the Caldari Militia. She does a alright job being a Provist.

As for people being stomped it comes with the job, I know I have had my fair share of IC conflict on the IGS, be it from personality clashes or just because of something I said that went against mainstream RP of that month. The ones who can handle the flak have my respect and are some of my favorite RPers tbh.

[Jev North]

Diana Kim is an obvious Gallente plant.

I doubt that, Diana Kim became active in the RP community during the I-RED - Wolfsbrigade war becoming the main voice to speak out against I-RED on the side of the Caldari Militia. She does a alright job being a Provist.

Butbut, sowing dissent between Caldari while appearing like a perfect patriot is exactly what a Gallente plant would do.

[Kybernetes Moros]

I personally don't find the variation on the RL statement "First they came..." to be offensive OOC.  I extracted a WW2 quote for use when writing the Hitchhiker's Guide and I think it did its job fairly well.  Valoron made a bit of a mess of "First they came..." by dragging it on and on and using it perhaps at a less than optimal opportunity, but any moral objection I have toward it is purely IC.

It's just a personal reaction -- I'm not trying to say "No! This is objectively bad!". I feel it was in poor taste to use (and moreover, butcher by dragging it out) to basically go "lol, Caldari are Nazis", but if others are okay with that, I've no issue there. If everyone reacted to things like I do, I worry that the world would be a pretty poor place.

[Lyn Farel]

In the case of Kim and Valoron, many characters dislike (even despise) them because often enough they say things that are offensive IC.  These are characters who either hold outlying views and/or who have the audacity to express more extreme views in public.

Kim regarding Gallente a politician (Valoron actually ):

The proper solution would be cutting his hands off. That will stop him for some time at least.
Well, and his nose too.

Valoron regarding the Caldari:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1797199#post1797199

Take note that Valoron wasn't "stomped" in this case for being a politician.  He was "stomped" for being a racist.  Personally, I am happy to see characters with unshakeable and unpopular opinions, but everyone should expect the more moderate heads in the crowd to treat them with some measure of IC disapproval.

I've never had a character that despised Seriphyn and I think it's fair to say his politics are quite a bit less extreme than either of the two above.  Never interacted with Rodj so I can't comment on him either.

Yes, I know that Diana and sometimes Bastian are sometimes extreme. That sounds also like a convenient excuse to me, but it is however very true, I guess. My own conclusions are more centered around OOC social groups that are precisely constructed around moderated OOC fashionable ideals of the moment, but I am probably being paranoid.

Sometimes I just tell myself that it would have been 100 times easier (and 100 times more dull) without any OOC interaction, never signing on this forum, never talking OOC to people, never befriending them so that every OOC/IC bleedover would have been avoided. And at the same time I am pretty sure that the way characters adress to my own would have been totally different too.

Because it is a trivialization of an important quote and real history of one of the worst things humanity has ever done to itself. to score cheap political points in internet spaceships lolrp.  That's pretty damn offensive.

Okay... I personally found it quite brilliant, but I guess sensibilities differ on that kind of thing.

I reminds me another similar case when Nardieu made a whole post on how "all cultures are not equal". Obvious reference to a political current sensitive debate in my own country, which I personally find obnoxious OOCly. I still found it quite brilliant too, nevertheless.

I doubt that, Diana Kim became active in the RP community during the I-RED - Wolfsbrigade war becoming the main voice to speak out against I-RED on the side of the Caldari Militia. She does a alright job being a Provist.

As for people being stomped it comes with the job, I know I have had my fair share of IC conflict on the IGS, be it from personality clashes or just because of something I said that went against mainstream RP of that month. The ones who can handle the flak have my respect and are some of my favorite RPers tbh.

Yes, I like your philosophy on the matter. I doubt however that it is shared by many.

[Ciarente]

As far as Rodj is concerned, I OOCly love the character. He's tremendous fun! Given how exceptionally offensive he has been to Cia (c) - awesomely so, <3 Rodj - it would be OOC bleedover for Cia not to dislike him ICly.

[ArtOfLight]

I think the majority of people that get lambasted on IGS has to do more with what they say than whom they are.

Kim and Valoron, for example, constantly say things that are very politically (if not racially) charged and they do it on purpose. I love the characters from an OOC perspective, but from an IC perspective they are saying things in order to get people to respond the way they do.

[Katrina Oniseki]

Diana Kim is an obvious Gallente plant.

To the OP though. I feel like this thread is not actually about those other characters being disliked IC - but is in fact another thread about you having issues with roleplay. Because of this I am hesitant to take this seriously.

Your supporting point is that Minmatar extremists don't get any flak, which is patently untrue. I've seen several threads with several pages of heated argument between extremists and moderates on the Minmatar side.

Aside, I'd be willing to wager that most of the players you've mentioned play their characters this way on purpose, and intend for these sorts of responses. That's my guess though.

[Silas Vitalia]

Why is it a bad thing for people to be IC 'stomped' for opinions they express IC?

Frankly we don't see enough hostility as it is, and the IGS resembles more of a group hug these days than people actually getting angry and constantly fighting and trying to destroy each other like they should be.