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[Ghost Hunter]

"urdoingitrong" starts at character creation, for player characters. (CCP actors have the ability to get around this)

The limitation of game mechanics, means that everyone went to the same 12 schools.

There is no such thing as a Khanid Kingdom native pilot, mechanics wise. They all trained at Imperial Academy, Hedion Uni, or the RAI.

It means any Khanid kingdom loyalist, can be asked "So, why did you abandon your Duty to the Empire to support King Khanid?".

Happens with many other factions too. esp. the pirate factions, like the blood raiders. Anyone that says they are a blood raider supporter, mechanics wise, has to have trained at e.g. Imperial Academy. And so, must have turned their back on the Empire, having been an Imperial citizen initially.

Mechanics wise, there are only 2 kinds of player character. "Big Four" citizens, and former "big four" citizens.

If you say there are more, then you are adding something that cannot be proven by game mechanics, and that is something that will, eventually, be called on.

Thereafter, it is all about cliques and in-groups, as to whether or not player X's character is what the mechanics say they are, or what player X says they are.

In my opinion, the limitation of game mechanics means that everyone appears to have gone to the same 12 schools. You can choose to acknowledge and incorporate that your character passed through the school at some time, or 'shady shenanigans' occurred. See also : using what you're given versus ignoring it.

At the end of the day, some people would like to ignore the starting restrictions so it better fits 'their way' of doing things. I think it's important to incorporate these starting restrictions, however, because it keeps things flowing. Rather than think of it as dealing with people who pointedly don't respect what you would like to do, think of it as keeping it clear for people who don't know what you are doing.

A new roleplayer or someone unfamiliar with you might use that part of your employment history as a hook in. If you take them aside OOCly to say 'that isnt actually so' then it breaks flow and jarrs them out of what might be a good exchange. If you take it in stride in character, you can adapt the situation and play with it to suit your whims and generate :RP:. It's not ideal, obviously, but it appears to be the healthy bridge between What Is So and What I Say So.

[Matariki Rain]

What Ghost said. Also what I said in the thread on roleplay and real-play:

If someone tells me that something that I can see in-game isn't correct, I'm not blocking when I question it: I'm grounding our play in our shared world.

They might then go "Yes, and... it's some stupid CONCORD regulation" or "Yes, and... *wide-eyed stare* let me find a new corp: I didn't realise that would happen to my licence when I left".

The responsibility rests with them to present a reason why the public, shared information is, in that instance, not to be taken at face value.

I think there's lots of potential here. "The CONCORD treaties recognise only 12 accredited training organisations for pod pilots, require you to list one-and-only-one race/ethnicity, and tie the two together. It's bizarre, but if you want to fly you need a CONCORD licence, so those are the rules to work with or around. We think it was part of a negotiating ploy by <insert theory here: the Gallente to ensure that all ethnic Minmatar pod pilots would be "free"; the Caldari to ensure that all Caldari pod pilots would be theirs; whatever>. It's <insert view of CONCORD's pragmatism or corruption> and <insert view of what, if anything, should be done about it>".

We can work with this stuff. We can come up with terse Ammatar comments about "Ridiculous CONCORD requirements for licensing". We can ponder whether Khanid should try to become a CONCORD treaty partner in its own right, and what the unlikeliness of that happening means for regional politics and alliances.

[Lyn Farel]

It is easy to work around the capsuleer school indicated on each character info. I did it myself and found a clumsy excuse to explain why the Republic Military School.

What is not possible however, is to find a solution for a secondary bloodline that is not available at the character creation. So in the same vein, should I completely scratch my ammatar background because it has no common ground in our shared world ? Or does saying that CONCORD did a mistake/has a restrictive list of bloodlines is ok ?

[Matariki Rain]

What is not possible however, is to find a solution for a secondary bloodline that is not available at the character creation. So in the same vein, should I completely scratch my ammatar background because it has no common ground in our shared world ? Or does saying that CONCORD did a mistake/has a restrictive list of bloodlines is ok ?

The bloodline one is annoying. The world definitely has people with a whole range of backgrounds that we can't register. I'm not aware of anything suggesting that Krusual, Ealurians, Mannar, Thukker, Udorians, etc, are genetically or otherwise unsuited to the pod ( ... although wouldn't that make for some fascinating plot arcs?). There are good stories to be told by bringing them in.

I'm inclined to play it that CONCORD's registration doesn't reflect the social/cultural/genetic reality in those cases, and work out the reasons case-by-case. Some of them will play the "bone-headed bureaucracy" card hard, but dealing with CONCORD's quirks and nuttiness is something we're used to, and one of the things we share despite our otherwise very different interests.

As an example, Thukker were outlaws from the Republic at the time the treaty was drafted, so maybe Thukker heritage didn't get on the registration list and any Thukker pilots since then have had to do some sort of weirdness to get registered. (Sucks to be Krusual, though: only three spots permitted per treaty partner, and they were the smallest of the original four?) Originally, that weirdness might have involved finding a Brutor great-great-grandfather in your family tree, or being sponsored or (extreme measures!) adopted by another tribe. These days maybe that's one of the reasons behind the certificate where all the tribes offer your their sponsorship: it means you can technically register as any one of them. (If you want places to go looking for fruitful conflict between tribal identities and pragmatic realities, this sort of stuff can be useful, too.) Some people will resent this; others will be pretty mellow about it, or shrug and move on since it's just dealing with outlander administration.

[BloodBird]

That's always a possibility however...

Explain the Mannar, again.

[Natalcya Katla]

IMO, there's a good measure of either pettiness or OCD required to make a fuss about people claiming to belong to a bloodline which clearly seems plausible from a PF standpoint, but which simply isn't supported by game mechanics.

Sure, it's always possible to come up with some excuse for why your pilot's license says Sebiestor while you claim to be Krusual, but honestly, it's often less silly and always a lot easier to simply take otherwise uncontroversial claims of ethnicity at face value.

[Casiella]

IMO, there's a good measure of either pettiness or OCD required to make a fuss about people claiming to belong to a bloodline which clearly seems plausible from a PF standpoint, but which simply isn't supported by game mechanics.

This precisely illustrates the point I tried to make in the OP.

[Silver Night]

[mod]Thread cleaned up. Most of the removed comments referenced the several comments that broke the rules. Feel free, as always, to repost constructive content. [/mod]

[Rodj Blake]

"urdoingitrong" starts at character creation, for player characters. (CCP actors have the ability to get around this)

The limitation of game mechanics, means that everyone went to the same 12 schools.

There is no such thing as a Khanid Kingdom native pilot, mechanics wise. They all trained at Imperial Academy, Hedion Uni, or the RAI.

It means any Khanid kingdom loyalist, can be asked "So, why did you abandon your Duty to the Empire to support King Khanid?".

Happens with many other factions too. esp. the pirate factions, like the blood raiders. Anyone that says they are a blood raider supporter, mechanics wise, has to have trained at e.g. Imperial Academy. And so, must have turned their back on the Empire, having been an Imperial citizen initially.

Mechanics wise, there are only 2 kinds of player character. "Big Four" citizens, and former "big four" citizens.

If you say there are more, then you are adding something that cannot be proven by game mechanics, and that is something that will, eventually, be called on.

Thereafter, it is all about cliques and in-groups, as to whether or not player X's character is what the mechanics say they are, or what player X says they are.

The schools thing has made me uneasy as well.  Personally, I tend to take the view that if someone's employment history says they were trained by School X, then they were trained by School X and it's down to the player to come up with something to explain their subsequent disloyalty.

However, the specific example of the Khanid pilot isn't a big problem since the Kingdom and the Empire became best buddies - it's quite possible that the Kingdom now sends people to the Empire for training.

[Louella Dougans]

The schools thing has made me uneasy as well.  Personally, I tend to take the view that if someone's employment history says they were trained by School X, then they were trained by School X and it's down to the player to come up with something to explain their subsequent disloyalty.

However, the specific example of the Khanid pilot isn't a big problem since the Kingdom and the Empire became best buddies - it's quite possible that the Kingdom now sends people to the Empire for training.

A thing I've seen is the idea of "pilot's exam", and instead of being trained as such by the Imperial Academy, an individual received training elsewhere, and only sat the "exam" at the Academy.

but yes, it still looks like disloyalty.

[Louella Dougans]

Also, Mannar capsuleers exist. http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=2887

In Navy service anyway.

Why then, can you not create one ingame? Who Knows ?

[Natalcya Katla]

If I remember correctly, back when background selection was still part of the character creation process (it's not anymore, is it?), one of the background options for a Gallente character was "immigrant". I'd say that's at least an argument in favor of being able to play a character who's classified as Gallente on paper, but who doesn't share the genetic heritage of "real" Gallente (Gallenteans?), while still staying within the boundaries set by the game.

[Casiella]

Natalcya, yes, it's still part of the process (and "immigrant" is still a valid option).

[Z.Sinraali]

All alleged discrepancies between RP and IG appearances are because of falcon.

[Louella Dougans]

I had a thought today, about things, it made sense.

A setting has polygons as the entities that do things. The game rules as released only mention how triangles do things, and the developer mentions something that gives the impression that they expect everyone to play triangles, at least at first.

So people are off, playing triangles, and exploring the ideas behind being isosceles in a world of right angled triangles, or the oppression of the equilaterals by the scalene.

And then someone wants to play a square. Squares are mentioned briefly in the prime fiction, but not to any great extent.
Then someone wants to be a triangle with rounded corners.
And someone else wants to be a circle.
What happens here? especially if the developer has talked about squares being in a future expansion?

And then someone wants to be a cube, saying it would add a new dimension to their roleplay. Is that allowed?

Then someone takes it too far, and wants to be a tesseract.

At this point, anyone being a plain triangle may feel excluded, as if no-one's playing the same game anymore.

and this is what some things feel like to me. That some things are polyhedrons in a world of polygons.