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[Ken]

This is a follow-up to Merdaneth's thread.  Please bear with the wall of text.

[P]layer influence on wider events is diminished.

I was looking for this article because it touched on the consequences of that fact.  Le found: http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/02/03/storyboard-you-guys-must-be-the-party/ 

For me, this reinforces my feeling that the years-long drought of storyline advancement, lore-player interaction, and player influence over the story in EVE should be an encouragement to devise and weave more intricate tales of our own even if doing so requires some OOC backroom planning and a healthy dose of crazy.  I see laudable initiative in those players that craft and publish PF-friendly news articles and, hoping my earlier post in this thread isn't taken for the exact opposite, I think Merdaneth is right in that we ought to pay more IC attention to things like the SF-Goon war or the Goons defrauding of FW.

With an external force providing some story, the player characters can never really change certain things. No matter how many times your group beats back the Horde, there will still be Horde forces to send against you. It means that there's no real way to resolve that conflict by your lonesome. In a purely player-generated story, however, you can solve these problems, sometimes permanently.

EVE may not have an exciting and changing story involving the empires and their struggles (right now), but one thing you can say for it is that it does have a story.  The conflicts that go on between characters, corps, and alliances all over the cluster is different every single day, and they have the potential to be much more interesting.  Most of these conflicts are purely OOC competition between players, but they can be viewed through an IC lens.  Not to say it isn't done, but I think we can all be better at RPing those day-to-day conflicts and bringing others into them.  I think we can be better at crafting and running much larger scale storylines as well.

That's it, time to wardec some people!

I was semi-serious about that comment.

A year ago Nikita's Risen Angels wardec'd the T2 indy corp I started up shortly after coming back from overseas.  It was more or less out of the blue and from where we were sitting there was no way to effectively carry on an in-space war with her corp.  I think Hamish threw some mercs at them on his own dime, but whether that turned into any genuine PvP on Nikita's side of the cluster I don't know.  What I do know is that we talked it out and RPed a corporate office bombing and followed up with a covert infiltration of Risen Angels' HQ station and hacking of their servers.  Though effectively bloodless, the storyline ran for a week or more and directly involved our then neighbors IPI and I-RED.  Never did learn who hired RIA to dec us.

This is the main reason I don't involve myself much in the actual RP side of EVE any more. Because most EVE RP is pointless and has no connection with the actual game... I still get pulled into some in-game RP on occasion, but it's rare, which is unfortunate because I like doing it when it actually has consequence.

I tell the above story because I think it is an example of EVE RP that was not pointless (several enjoyable and story-building character and corp-level interactions took place) and did have a connection with the actual game (brand new T2 indy corp tromping into a competitive lowsec market was forced to react to a wardec; two nearby RP alliances involved themselves to various extents).  Part of pulling that off was publicity.  In character, we reached out for help.  We ran IC news articles about it.  The other big part was in having a healthy OOC interaction with the other side.  Nikita was happy to play out a PnP style scenario where we attacked her network in exchange for bombing our offices.

Now I'd like to start a more in depth conversation about player-driven storylines.  Rather than talk about them in an academic way, going back and forth about how entertaining/feasible/meaningful they are, what I really want to hear is stories.  I'd like to ask you to share your experiences with RP interactions like the one I described above.  What worked well?  If something didn't work, why do you think it flopped?  How did the events impact your character and their relationships?  How was the OOC interaction, if any?  Aurora might still be in suspended animation, but we're fairly decent tale weavers ourselves.  I know you do things.  Let's hear it.  With any luck, we might just spark some fresh ideas.

[Casiella]

I think that bellyaching about the lack of influence on the wider storyline misses the point. Most of us don't influence national policy and events within our own countries, much less world changing news. But that doesn't mean we don't have effects on the world around us. Maybe a corp can work to pacify a small area IC by ratting, anti pirate work, and even taking over the customs offices. Or maybe an industrial corp focuses on research and production of a particular category of item.

[Halete]

I think that bellyaching about the lack of influence on the wider storyline misses the point. Most of us don't influence national policy and events within our own countries, much less world changing news. But that doesn't mean we don't have effects on the world around us. Maybe a corp can work to pacify a small area IC by ratting, anti pirate work, and even taking over the customs offices. Or maybe an industrial corp focuses on research and production of a particular category of item.

This.
RP is what you make of it.

[Seriphyn]

Minmatar clan, Amarr minor Holder, Caldari megacorporate subsidiary, Gallente minor state.

I think all four of those can be used for having 'in-space' worldbuilding RP. Pick a backwater Gallente system no one uses, state "This capsuleer corporation has been hired by the local system government to develop the territory on their behalf", and use that RP to justify it being your homebase, having PI, having a POS, etc.

[Malcolm Khross]

Very good post and responses. My own viewpoints are moving more in this direction after some talking with some trusted RP friends and some OOC reflection on things.

Thankfully, WHG's stated purpose is basically right in line with this. Anit-piracy and strong-defense stances allow us to focus on faction warfare from a different angle than just "kill and conquer" and gives us a lot of IC motivation to set up in-character patrols, reports and activities. It also gives us a lot of RP devices to work with (training, ultimatums to pirates, vendettas, etc).

There's a lot for us to do in this vast expanse of virtual space we call "New Eden."

[Halete]

I like the way you think, Malcolm.

Unfortunately, since Halete is more or less a Wildcard in the grand scheme of things, I struggle with this.

As it happens, I am actually taking private contracts for medicine supplies, slave-moving and so on, but that doesn't happen in the spotlight.

Beyond that, it's hard to get the ball rolling.

[Jev North]

What tweaked my RP bits, recently -

Visiting the third Seylin conference, as an ANSH probie. The presentations were impressive (Project Compass, holy sheeeit). Hanging with the security squad did not involve a lot of deep immersion roleplay, but there were several very nice moments - talking to uninvolved but interested passers-by, scaring newbies with my l33t flashiness, that sort of thing.

Pirating it up in Black Rise. A lot of it is private headspace stuff I really need to write up some time, but it had a few charming public moments as well. For example, I had a short, polite conversation with a former alliance mate now in WHG, while trying to scan her down and blow her up. Meant every word, too.

My one regret so far is not finding the time to interact with WHG more. But I'm sure there'll be time for that, after the current shenanigans we're up to. And 'm sure these will lead to a nice moment or two as well..

[Malcolm Khross]

I like the way you think, Malcolm.

Unfortunately, since Halete is more or less a Wildcard in the grand scheme of things, I struggle with this.

As it happens, I am actually taking private contracts for medicine supplies, slave-moving and so on, but that doesn't happen in the spotlight.

Beyond that, it's hard to get the ball rolling.

[shameless plug]

You know, Halete can always consider fighting for a cause outside of the Republic if the Republic can't look after itself, maybe she'll need to look after it from the outside. Sadly, this would involve making you a WT to the MinMil and probably not prudent or wise - but hey, it's an option.

[/shameless plug]

Jev,

I am quite sure we'll have more opportunities to shoot at one another. I'm even considering trying to "upset" your shipments of booster coffee to Intaki. >.> ANSH has been awesome to RP with, shoot at and get shot at by so far and I'm particularly fond of how we can chat and laugh OOC then turn around and try exterminating one another IC. This is the kind of distinction I hope to see a lot of in the RP community and I'm hoping we can inspire others to do the same.

[Jev North]

Malcom - well, aside from being all gentlemanly, one of the concrete things both corporations seem to have going for us is that we both seem to be mucking about in small groups and small ships, and have plenty of other targets in the area. Nobody's ego or assets are invested too deeply. And given mobility, any engagements we're in are likely to be "fair", or at least well-executed traps or pounces. In case of blue-balling, we can simply roam right on. There's always something to do in Black Rise. (Even if most of the time, it's exploding.)

Edit: also, sorry - will stop the theorizing, am curious to hear more actual stories.

[Victoria Stecker]

I think one of the problems you encounter with this is the desire for publicity ("we're doing cool shit and want people to know and participate") vs the need for secrecy ("we're doing cool shit but this is EVE and if anyone finds out we'll get ganked to hell and back"). For example, a while back PIE had a thread on the IGS about building a medical ship in a providence. Immediately, there were dozens of people saying "we're gonna gank that bitch." Being that this is EVE and pissing in other people's cheerios is the way so many people enjoy this game, secrecy and security are paramount - which means that, at best, you can tell people about what you're doing after you've done it.

This manifests itself even in things like the Seyllin conferences – you can get together and present your findings and it’s really cool, but while you’re doing the research and such like, you have to keep a lid on any details beyond “I’m studying X”.

For anther example, take Federation day. Any large scale event like that is, these days, going to attract the Goons. As far as I heard they didn’t do anything particularly awful, but it’s kind of always there in the back of your mind – anything I do that attracts attention might suddenly get shat upon by other people.

Obviously, there are examples of stuff that works – but with the cesspool that the IGS tends to be, and the pile of shitpoasting that tends to follow any public announcement by any ever, the tendency is to keep it quiet. Ken’s story is cool – I think I remember when it happened, as I was peripherally associated with RIA, or maybe just OOC friends with them at the time – but what sort of response do you think it would have garnered if it had been discussed publicly?

The above bitching aside, I think I’m starting to see more IC conflicts and I like it. It took a while and a bit of attrition, plus some long, extended breaks from EVE for some of us, but stuff™ does indeed seem to be happening again. There seem to be fewer massive IC conflicts – CVA vs U’K has been dead for a good while, PIE vs EM, SF vs whoever. Aside from some posting on the forums, the major conflicts seem to have burned out. But the smaller ones seem to be getting going again – as mentioned, Anshar has somehow survived more than a year (*applause for Milo*) and is now expanding it’s ability to piss in the Placid region’s cheerios. WHG is growing and has a great idea and great leadership behind it, needs to learn to kill stuff and it’ll be awesome . Aegis Militia is back from the dead in Amarr FW, building it’s core and might be a force to do more than plex before long.

I’m sure I had a point. This is what I get for writing while I’m at work, I forget why I’m doing it.

[Graanvlokkie]

... what I really want to hear is stories.  I'd like to ask you to share your experiences with RP interactions like the one I described above.  What worked well?  If something didn't work, why do you think it flopped?  How did the events impact your character and their relationships?  How was the OOC interaction, if any?  ...

The best RP I ever had was when my corp [ISPEC] lived in wormhole space. As some may know I have long been a Sansha sympathiser, and in the years before the Sansha incursions started my corp truly believed in Sansha's Utopian vision.

ISPEC decided to take some tourists, militants, slaves, exotic dancers, supplies of Quafe and assorted other "livestock" we had bought and collected and conquer and claim a wormhole system to build our version of Utopia in, shielded from the influence of the different empires and Concord. We erected our POS'es for industry and everything was set up nicely and epic corp RP ensued. When PI was introduced we celebrated because now we could manufacture most of our POS fuel in the WH, so our reliance on empire space was further reduced.  This was the public press release that the corp issued:

Unknown Space - On 112.06.19 the first planetary colony was established in unknown space controlled by the Interspacial Specialists [ISPEC]. Sources confirm that payloads of enriched uranium and mechanical parts have already started to make their way from the surface of the planet to the ISPEC space station.

Graanvlokkie, CEO of ISPEC, stated that ”while the resources extracted from the planets in no way signify any technological advantage held by the corporation, this step is an important one allowing ISPEC to become more self sufficient in our wormhole space. Also, one must not lose sight of the human success story. It was not that long ago that our first settlers, many of whom were rescued from the dregs of society, came to live in our space station. With the establishment of these colonies we have been able to not just provide jobs for our settlers, but also an improved way of life exceeding that which was available within the empires in known space”.

Major RP ensued when members of a large 0.0 sec SOV holding corp in the Northern Coalition decided that invading our WH and erecting towers to run PI production chains was a good idea. We launched a preemptive attack on their towers and managed to place them into reinforced and incapacitate their defenses.

After that the invading pilots initiated diplomatic discussions and we agreed to co-inhabit the WH, working together to launch attacks on neighboring systems and acting in defense of our system.

Epic RP done in space with non-roleplaying pilots for a period of about three months before they moved out.

This is the reason that whenever someone mentions perhaps starting a RP wormhole alliance I get very interested, but it has never happened to my knowledge.

[Kybernetes Moros]

Coincidentally, I was discussing this with a friend on MSN just last night.

The general agreement was that people do tend to lean on CCP for RP drive a bit more heavily than would be ideal -- even allowing for that CCP has dropped the ball on a few occasions. Take a small section of a faction and write for them, if the mood takes you; a paragraph or two could spur some interesting discussion. Hell, even shooting each other if it highlights an ideological difference. (Yes, yes, I've been promising Milo that I'd get some ANN stuff for longer than I want to admit, but :RL: has always intervened...)

As for stories, hm, hm. TS-F is rather insular as a product of its (IC) history, but there have been some great moments. Messing around in backwater Gallente low-security and later Minmatar FW space had some excellent opportunities for internal RP, and I often found it unfortunate that it was difficult to get other corporations involved "realistically", i.e. avoiding sudden catastrophic failures in secrecy or remarkable incidences of OOC-orchestrated IC providence.

Is there a thread on that theme of getting one corporation entwined in the machinations of another -- and if not, would there be any interest therein?

[Victoria Stecker]

 

...I often found it unfortunate that it was difficult to get other corporations involved "realistically", i.e. avoiding sudden catastrophic failures in secrecy or remarkable incidences of OOC-orchestrated IC providence.

Is there a thread on that theme of getting one corporation entwined in the machinations of another -- and if not, would there be any interest therein?

I think it's been mentioned and I kinda hit on it above, but a dedicated thread is probably worthwhile... an I'm bored at work. Gimme a couple minutes.