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[Lyn Farel]

If I understand correctly, Synthia and you seem shocked that people have always thought it was a video feed, while most of the time people actually did visual emotes all the time (I can confirm what Rek said, like most people could I guess) ?

And if I understand correctly some other people like Rek seem shocked to learn that some people have always thought it was text only ?

This thread confuses me a lot.

[Saede Riordan]

First off, this:

That doesn't answer the question Lou originally posed though, Simulacra modification, allowed, or are some sort of filters in place that force your appearance to be human?

Is a rephrasing of this

could you clarify something about teh "what is the summit?"

was some kind of kerfuffle about the nature of video/cameras.

Some people said that a camera shows the pilot. Other people were all doing weird stuff with appearing as virtual 3d rabbits and stuff.

Nothing in the MOTD suggests virtual stuff is possible, only cameras and such.

Don't presume to state whether or not my question was answered. That wasn't my question anyway.

Yes, it very clearly was your question. That is exactly the same thing you asked just phrased differently.

The channel MOTD does not state much about things:
[17:38:09] EVE System > Channel MOTD: ((For Out of Character discussion, join the 'OOC' channel. No 'bracketing' please. Remember, The Summit is not a place, it is a comms channel. As such, threatening bodily harm to fellow logged-in users may get you laughed at.))

"It is a comms channel", is all that's in the MOTD. All the description and stuff doesn't matter if it only appears here on Backstage.

That is something entirely offpoint. If you feel you can just ignore what Graelyn and the other moderators say about how the summit is because its listed here and not in the MOTD, then thats a personal thing to be brought up with with them and if they decide to add it into the MOTD.

So, Rek was trolling, someone said something that denied the existence of the troll comments, and people are now complaining that "A chronicle says I can do this!", so they can troll some more. I am not exactly impressed by this.

Rek's actions were entirely in character, and entirely within the realms of fiction. Just because you don't like the way someone RPs, doesn't automatically make it trolling. Also blocking, which is at the end of the day, what Synthia did there, is not a good way to express a problem with someone's RP. There were plenty of IC ways to take issue with that RP, and if it was really that big of a problem, something could have been said OOC, instead, Synthia ICly simply denied the possibility of the event at all, which is basically the definition of blocking

This is what I read, first hand.
 [ 2012.09.15 21:29:13 ] Louella Dougans > oh, people trolling summit again, eh?
 [ 2012.09.15 21:29:21 ] Louella Dougans > meh
 [ 2012.09.15 21:29:26 ] Shiroh Yatamii > Not as such
 [ 2012.09.15 21:30:24 ] Shiroh Yatamii > I did a VR-like emote whereby Shiroh changed his appearance. Synthetic Cultist was like "No, there's no video aspect. Is text only". Which doesn't appear to be the case, as everyone does visual emotes.
 [ 2012.09.15 21:30:38 ] Shiroh Yatamii > Tried discussing it in here with her, was ignored. *shrugs*

This is what I've been shown.
 [ 2012.09.15 21:20:10 ] Saede Riordan > When did the summit stop having a video component as an established IC fact?
 [ 2012.09.15 21:20:20 ] Shiroh Yatamii > Right? I have to call BS on that Synthia
 [ 2012.09.15 21:20:38 ] Shiroh Yatamii > People quite regularly emote things as though there was a video aspect.

saying "I call BS" doesn't count as "tried discussion" as far as I was aware. Not surprised it was ignored.

Now, lets get that one more time with the entire contents of the channel instead of just cherry picking certain lines:

[ 2012.09.15 21:20:09 ] Saede Riordan > When did the summit stop having a video component as an established IC fact?
 [ 2012.09.15 21:20:21 ] Shiroh Yatamii > Right? I have to call BS on that Synthia
 [ 2012.09.15 21:20:38 ] Shiroh Yatamii > People quite regularly emote things as though there was a video aspect.
 [ 2012.09.15 21:21:00 ] Garret Stormin > There's always been a video aspect.
 [ 2012.09.15 21:21:11 ] Garret Stormin > Now, it was always an option, you could not show your feed if you didn't want to.
 [ 2012.09.15 21:21:14 ] Amaitiyana Maranam > I always thought there was too
 [ 2012.09.15 21:21:15 ] Garret Stormin > But it's always been there.
 [ 2012.09.15 21:22:13 ] Garret Stormin > Oh! Right, back to this.
 [ 2012.09.15 21:22:13 ] Shiroh Yatamii > So...there we go. A little odd to say "No there isn't" IC when it's pretty well-established. I would have called it out IC but I couldn't think of any way to draw attention to it without going OOC
 [ 2012.09.15 21:22:29 ] Garret Stormin > /emote smacks Ama upside the head with a pillow.
 [ 2012.09.15 21:23:01 ] Louella Dougans > o/
 [ 2012.09.15 21:23:07 ] Garret Stormin > Hallo.
 [ 2012.09.15 21:23:08 ] Samuel Ourias > Hello Louella.
 [ 2012.09.15 21:23:08 ] Amaitiyana Maranam > /emote sits down and has a cry.
 [ 2012.09.15 21:23:21 ] Garret Stormin > /emote sits down with her and pats her back.
 [ 2012.09.15 21:23:29 ] Louella Dougans > sup?
 [ 2012.09.15 21:23:39 ] Carlani Hudson > Lou \o/
 [ 2012.09.15 21:23:50 ] Louella Dougans > me \o/
 [ 2012.09.15 21:24:23 ] Amaitiyana Maranam > /emote punches Garret.
 [ 2012.09.15 21:24:24 ] Amaitiyana Maranam > Meany.
 [ 2012.09.15 21:24:37 ] Garret Stormin > /emote hits her with the pillow again.
 [ 2012.09.15 21:25:13 ] Louella Dougans > hows things carlani ?
 [ 2012.09.15 21:25:18 ] Carlani Hudson > Pretty well, really
 [ 2012.09.15 21:25:37 ] Amaitiyana Maranam > /emote weeps louder.
 [ 2012.09.15 21:25:48 ] Carlani Hudson > What about you ?
 [ 2012.09.15 21:26:03 ] Louella Dougans > eh, alright
 [ 2012.09.15 21:26:45 ] Carlani Hudson > \o/ ?
 [ 2012.09.15 21:27:25 ] Amaitiyana Maranam > /emote lies on Louella's lap.
 [ 2012.09.15 21:27:31 ] Louella Dougans >
 [ 2012.09.15 21:27:34 ] Garret Stormin > /emote is left out again.
 [ 2012.09.15 21:27:37 ] Garret Stormin > /emote rolls around in the snow.
 [ 2012.09.15 21:27:57 ] Amaitiyana Maranam > Lou seems like she would be good at snuggles.
 [ 2012.09.15 21:28:18 ] Louella Dougans > o:
 [ 2012.09.15 21:28:24 ] Carlani Hudson > /emote snuggles Lou !
 [ 2012.09.15 21:29:14 ] Louella Dougans > oh, people trolling summit again, eh?
 [ 2012.09.15 21:29:21 ] Louella Dougans > meh
 [ 2012.09.15 21:29:26 ] Shiroh Yatamii > Not as such
 [ 2012.09.15 21:30:24 ] Shiroh Yatamii > I did a VR-like emote whereby Shiroh changed his appearance. Synthetic Cultist was like "No, there's no video aspect. Is text only". Which doesn't appear to be the case, as everyone does visual emotes.
 [ 2012.09.15 21:30:38 ] Shiroh Yatamii > Tried discussing it in here with her, was ignored. *shrugs*
 [ 2012.09.15 21:32:14 ] Stitcher > everyone emotes in that channel. *everyone*
 [ 2012.09.15 21:32:29 ] Stitcher > including, I must point out, synth/val/connie/etc
 [ 2012.09.15 21:32:44 ] Amaitiyana Maranam > Well
 [ 2012.09.15 21:33:06 ] Amaitiyana Maranam > This community wouldn't be what it is without a bit of rampant hypocracy.

IN any case, what Synthetic Cultist said:
[ 2012.09.15 21:17:33 ] Synthetic Cultist > the summit is a text channel, and does not show any simulacra.

Is arguably true.

Because the summit is subjective. You cannot compel anyone to see a rabbit if you emote being a rabbit. or Whatever.


And now we have a full page of people arguing they should be allowed to do whatever kind of whatever, and the MOTD is unchanged.

What the discussion is about is what should be allowed to constitute the shared reality of the summit. If we decide that people can't manipulate their image into a rabbit, then so be it. But if you want to actually be able to interact with other people, you need to be able to agree upon what is true and possible in the universe and what is not. If we start down the road of 'your RP isn't real because I disagree with it' then you can easily say that Ava Starfire isn't a shaman, Tiberious Thessalonia is not Sansha, and you are not a space nun. The point of RPing is to establish an objective reality for our characters to interact with each other inside of. If you cannot come up with an acceptable shared reality, then you cannot RP.
The summit is a public channel, people will say all sorts of things in there that do not, and cannot have any basis in fact game mechanically. While Evelyn Meiyi claims she is talking to her accountant, what she actually is doing is sitting at a desk somewhere playing an MMO, and we know that. There is an instinctive awareness that it is just a game, and in order to accept anything that is said there, requires the wilful suspension of disbelief. If people start poking holes in that, then all possibility of RP falls apart, and it devolves into a he said she said pissing match.

So no, I'm not arguing to be able to be allowed to do whatever kind of whatever, if it is decided that modifying ones appearance should not be allowed, then that becomes a rule, and we abide it. I would just like to know what is and what is not allowed in order to better everyone's shared reality.

[Louella Dougans]

If I understand correctly, Synthia and you seem shocked that people have always thought it was a video feed, while most of the time people actually did visual emotes all the time (I can confirm what Rek said, like most people could I guess) ?

And if I understand correctly some other people like Rek seem shocked to learn that some people have always thought it was text only ?

This thread confuses me a lot.

No. I'm pointing out the MOTD doesn't contain information about what it is supposed to be, and asking for that to be clarified, since there seems to be something that's causing friction.

[Graelyn]

I should probably weigh in on this.
However, given the simpering triviality of the arguement, I would rather keep things vague, as the two sides inevitably escalate into full blown bite-your-kids type hatred, preferably with knife violence.

The Summit has voice, text, video, audio, the whole works. You can keep tabs on it anywhere, in text or audio or anything you like.

The only things it doesn't have are hook-ups with force-feedback for your sex toys...and there's probably an app for that.

Some people connect IC'text', being they are typing (ie it's the only connection method available, maybe they're in a WH or something). Some capsuleers only receive this way. To them in the pod, I'm sure it appears much as it does in game; a floating box in your general field of view, chattering away like a hundred other such boxes.

When out of the pod, you can set up a cam and broadcast video, or whatever. People sure do seem to get muted a lot from what follows when they are doing this in Summit....

If there is a limit to widely available interfaces, I'm sure the Super-rich can afford to broadcast whatever data they want to the feed. All can be blocked, or opened at will by a user or sender, etc.

There isn't a lot of limits. Someone can visually represent themselves IC as any weird ass shit they want to, but any user of the channel can just...r-clik...showinfo...and see you...

Is any of this unreasonable? 

[Graelyn]

[edits!]

[Saede Riordan]

No, that seems reasonable and fine to me.

[Streya]

Of course, that's fine Graelyn.

So, Rek was trolling, someone said something that denied the existence of the troll comments, and people are now complaining that "A chronicle says I can do this!", so they can troll some more. I am not exactly impressed by this.

This just reeks of "Ur doing it wrong". Whether or not you're impressed is irrelevant; if the PF supports in-universe actions that may not be to your liking (both IC and OOC), then you have to deal with it. Not everyone wants to play a prim and proper Space Nun, or constructed capsuleer who is queen of Kaztropol. Other people play and think differently than you. That's part of what makes this game great. And no, I wasn't trolling. If your feelings were hurt in any way, then I apologize. I was being silly, because my character can be rather silly. If you disagree with how I play my character, then you may tell me so directly. Making the blanket statement "this is text only" while in-character was just confusing as hell and led to this thread's discussion. If Synthia had simply said "I'm receiving text-only" then that would have been fine and dandy. Instead, by saying "this is text only", the implication is that my character didn't do what he did, and that's someone else placing limits on the actions of my character. You can see why my feathers were a tad ruffled, particularly when the community at large agrees that the emote in question was possible (even if silly).

[lallara zhuul]

Ummm.

Wouldn't it just be simpler that the channel is exactly what it is, a text based channel.

And the characters could choose themselves to react to the /emotes just like the players do?

Instead of forcing people to state constantly to any interaction on how they perceive them?

(It was Gaven that was heading the Summit project in PIE.)

I do find it a tad hilarious that someone calls their own character a troll, when they are referred to as a troll by another person their friend gets huffed up about it and they themselves get huffed up about it as well.

 

[Lyn Farel]

Ummm.

Wouldn't it just be simpler that the channel is exactly what it is, a text based channel.

And the characters could choose themselves to react to the /emotes just like the players do?

Instead of forcing people to state constantly to any interaction on how they perceive them?

(It was Gaven that was heading the Summit project in PIE.)

I am not sure but it seems to me that's precisely because the channel remained vague as such that these problems occured.

[lallara zhuul]

The more 'advanced' interaction in the sphere of RP is younger than the channel.

Including the PF, so I would think that originally such concepts were not part of the original concept of the channel.

[Tiberious Thessalonia]

I personally don't know why you'd want to argue in favour of limiting the scope and potential for RP in an RP room rather than the broadening of it, but whatever.

[Saede Riordan]

I do find it a tad hilarious that someone calls their own character a troll, when they are referred to as a troll by another person their friend gets huffed up about it and they themselves get huffed up about it as well.

 

In my mind, there are actually two different things behind the word 'troll' one of which is fine, one of which is not, and saying 'he was trolling' or 'she was trolling' in an OOC context does a discredit to the issue,

There is IC trolling, which is, to remain IC, remain within the rules of the channel, and be a troll anyway. This in my mind is just fine and dandy and if it causes problems they should be dealt with IC.

Then there is OOC trolling, which is to be out of character in an in character channel specifically for the purpose of frustrating people OOCly and ruining their roleplay. This is obviously not allowed, and this is something that as a CEO, I definitely do not allow, and instances of this should be brought to me.

So when people out of character say "Rek was trolling" there, then I look at the logs, see that he was entirely IC, and say "yeah, Shiroh was trolling. But Shiroh is a crazy space captain who talks to his drones and does all sorts of weird things. Rek wasn't OOC trolling, and wasn't trying to ruin anyones RP.

If people OOC have a problem with something IC, then that is something that needs to be brought up here.Its what people did with the Stillwater issue, its what Louella did here, and I consider that all well and good, and am perfectly willing to abide by the decisions made here, because it is better for everyone involved if I do so. There was a question of what was allowed in the channel, and it was answered.

In short: troll RP is still RP until such a time as its decided that the channel must be entirely for super serious spaceship captains. If that gets decided, then so be it, but until that time, calling people OOC trolls because you don't like their RP does them a tremendous disservice.

[Graelyn]

I am not sure but it seems to me that's precisely because the channel remained vague as such that these problems occured.

No problems have occured.

A tiny handful people (some of whom no longer play EVE anyways) are having a little RPers tiff over something irrelevant, which is just so darned uncommon...

If it seems like I'm not all that concerned over manufactured drama, well...

Note: Those of you using this section of Backstage to get shots in on other people...you just keep that up and see what happens.

[Graelyn]

Ummm.

Wouldn't it just be simpler that the channel is exactly what it is, a text based channel.

Feel free to connect to it in text-only mode, which I'm sure is the default, and ignore anything that isn't text (since you wouldn't see it).

Just because you want to be limited doesn't mean I'm going to blanket suppress everyone.

Do you even play EVE anymore Lallara?

[Lyn Farel]

I am not sure but it seems to me that's precisely because the channel remained vague as such that these problems occured.

No problems have occured.

A tiny handful people (some of whom no longer play EVE anyways) are having a little RPers tiff over something irrelevant, which is just so darned uncommon...

If it seems like I'm not all that concerned over manufactured drama, well...

Note: Those of you using this section of Backstage to get shots in on other people...you just keep that up and see what happens.

I was merely refering to this specific topic and the logs posted here, nothing more.

If that's not a problem and a matter a semantics, well, call it as you wish, I don't know what other word to use. vOv