Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => The Summit (IG Channel Discussion) => Topic started by: Graelyn on 12 Jun 2012, 19:43
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Some random Q & A.
WHAT IS THE SUMMIT?
'The Summit' is a heavily augmented and fortified node on a dedicated fluidcomm router system specifically optimized for capsuleer interfacing. Built by the CONCORD/Communications Relay Commision, the channel was built to the highest specifications and with the most state-of-the-art and sometimes even experimental fluidcomm technologies. It was eventually seen as a failure by CONCORD and was allowed to be purchased by the public sector. Due to it's origins, there are still aspects of the core code within The Summit that are not fully understood by it's operations staff...
It is not a physical place, but rather a virtual environment that can be distributed and accessed in several forms and versions. 'The Summit' can be linked into from the capsule, from any cam/vid interface out of a pod, or even in pure audio format while you wander around a station/planetside on business. Pilots without a visual feed can be represented by static images to those who are visually interfacing, and live feeds can be established from anyone just perusing the node from their desk somewhere.
Though baseliners can post data to The Summit (with some difficulty and tweaking), they are generally treated as outsiders by the node's users and operators, as they are not the intended demographic. Listening in to the channel however, seems to be a lucrative business for someone; millions of people from across the factions of EVE are apparenly aware of the channel's goings-on, if not listening in directly. The sources for such data leaks are unknown; certain invalidID node sessions have been trapped and closed, but more seem to appear. It is not certain if this flaw is the result of the node matrix's transition from CONCORD router hardware to a civilian shell.
What is OOC?
OOC actually pre-dates The Summit, but over time has been under the same moderators and ownership, and has eventually become the sister channel for The Summit. For the most part, Backstage/Inspiracy is seen as the behavior standard for the channel, with some allowed lenience. OOC also ends up being the 'staging point' for a lot of activity in other RP channels who don't have dedicated places for such activity. It's also the general hangout for a lot of players who are either interested in learning more about the RP community in EVE, and the old burnouts who no longer RP, but want to stay in touch with the pulse of things. As such it is often the first place aspiring RPers experience in EVE, and the last as well.
Where did it come from?
The Summit started back in 2005, started by a group of alts of die-hard RPers, called the CRC Auxiliary. IC-wise, it was to have been setup by CONCORD's Communications Relay Commission as a way to facilitate the interactions of factional loyalist capsuleers (and thus keep tabs on their business). During the administrations of Ashar Kor-Azor and myself, we have been slowly purging the code in the channel software to completely eliminate all CONCORD spying measures and packet tracing of logged-in users (we hope).
So Graelyn didn't found it?
Heck no. While I did eventually have an alt in the CRC Auxiliary to become a mod, I was not one of the founding members. PIE members are thought to have formed the core of the CRC Auxiliary.
Was it always so heavily moderated?
No. Different folks who have run the place have had different standards of conduct, but there have been long stretches (years even) where no one was really maintaining the place. This will hopefully never be the case again. Moderation standards on The Summit began to solidify at about the same time as Backstage/Inspiracy gained prominence, and The Chatsubo Project was being abandoned by the majority of the community, and for many of the same reasons as well.
What ARE the rules?
Sekrit.
WTF!
Every single time that a solid do/don't regulation has ever been uttered, a flood of mails have come to the current Operators from players who just don't like specific other players, with snippets of chatlogs that show said hated player toeing over the line, along with a demand that we operators 'deal' with that player permanently.
We would actually rather let certain incidents go unpunished than let The Summit become a tool for OOC grudges. As such, we moderators talk amongst each other, hash out a common sense 'standard' of behavior without a lot of specifics, warn folks when they are playing too long beyond that line, and discuss things after the fact when action becomes necessary, as we know that the moderators here at Backstage/Inspiracy also do; the two groups have a lot in common with our approaches, actually.
We put effort into not being too strict, and only punishing patterns of behavior (I don't consider a short muting as much of a punishment, although some folks get hilariously offended by it), instead of specific incidents which can be attributed to a number of temporary lapses in judgement. Also, over-applications of standards would make the place a bit boring...
However, as a result of these things, we do not put out a list of absolute rules. 99% of people know damn well when they're being a pain in everyone's ass, and assertions of "Well, the rules don't say I can't!" are a wonderful barometer to use in culling the problems before they cause other folks to not enjoy the channel.
I think a moderator has it in for me!
Shoot me a message, and I'll deal with it. The fact that a mod doesn't like you isn't grounds for dismissal, however, nor is them using a dirty word, or anything as banal (yes, I DO have a mailbox full of the smallest, most quibbling sort of complaints). I do receive valid complaints as well, and discussions are had to keep certain situations from repeating. Your feedback DOES make a difference.
Is The Summit run as a democracy?
Fuck No. I am a TrueBlood Holder and I treat the place as such. Still, the moderators I appoint are considered due to their ability to adjudicate responsibly, and as such they enjoy a great deal of trust from myself and each other.
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could you clarify something about teh "what is the summit?"
was some kind of kerfuffle about the nature of video/cameras.
Some people said that a camera shows the pilot. Other people were all doing weird stuff with appearing as virtual 3d rabbits and stuff.
Nothing in the MOTD suggests virtual stuff is possible, only cameras and such.
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What I'd established Lou, was that Saede wasn't using a direct video line in, she was using a Simulacra. Very simply put, instead of generating a video feed from a camera, the video feed was a generated rendered video. It has nothing to do with the summit software itself, simply the source of the image the summit displayed was modified. This is something that has long been established (http://community.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=15-06-10) as possible in canon and I can't see any reason why there would be an issue with this happening. If your character has a problem with it, call the behaviour out as immature but there is no OOC reason for it to be impossible.
Also what actually started the kerfuffle was Synthia saying this in the summit:
[ 2012.09.15 21:17:33 ] Synthetic Cultist > the summit is a text channel, and does not show any simulacra.
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How does synthia knows that ? Graelyn told him ? :eek:
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To be fair, it was me who started doing more surreal emotes. I mostly did them for humor's sake, and also because my character is a complete troll and target paints the fourth wall whenever possible. That being said, given that people emote actions which would require a video aspect to the channel, Synthetic Cultist's statement simply cannot be correct. Additionally, since most people RP in the Summit while in a ship (and thus in pod), a physical video camera pointing at their face just doesn't make sense. How many people roleplay it such that you see a half-naked pilot surrounded in goop?
As the chronicle Xenocracy supports, capsuleers are damn well able to display a likeness of their choosing, regardless of how silly it may be. Of course in a moderated channel like The Summit one still has to keep their display-likeness decent and rated PG/PG-13, but changing it into a glasses-donning hipster fedo smoking on a corn pipe should be fine, if just silly. Moderators are of course the ones to decide at the end of the day, but the very act of having a virtual representation is supported by PF.
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[ 2012.09.15 21:01:45 ] Evelyn Meiyi > /emote taps away at a datapad, then passes it off to an unseen hand in exchange for another.
[ 2012.09.15 21:04:18 ] Evelyn Meiyi > /emote leans off-screen. "Erica! Erica! This quote is far too high -- go back to the supplier and get a new estimate!'
[ 2012.09.15 21:05:15 ] Samuel Ourias > Hmm.
[ 2012.09.15 21:05:36 ] Evelyn Meiyi > Sorry. I'm trying to keep business out of the Summit, but.....
[ 2012.09.15 21:07:26 ] Vaun Erryk > But you sit in front of a camera doing it, eh?
[ 2012.09.15 21:07:50 ] Evelyn Meiyi > I rarely have any free time.
[ 2012.09.15 21:10:25 ] Vaun Erryk > See, now that just makes me wonder why you bother with it at all.
[ 2012.09.15 21:11:01 ] Evelyn Meiyi > With work?
[ 2012.09.15 21:11:43 ] Vaun Erryk > Not quite - unless the Summit is your work, in which case, I apologise, and it's exactly what I mean.
[ 2012.09.15 21:12:21 ] Evelyn Meiyi > Well, I suppose I just need something that doesn't drive me crazy to look at, occasionally.
[ 2012.09.15 21:12:23 ] Evelyn Meiyi > /emote smiles.
[ 2012.09.15 21:12:58 ] Saede Riordan > You know, I connect to the summit via a simulacra, hence not having to worry about what my physical body is doing, the channel is rendered in my optic implants.
[ 2012.09.15 21:13:00 ] Vaun Erryk > I'd gently suggest you may be in the wrong line of work.
[ 2012.09.15 21:14:37 ] Synthetic Cultist > Hello.
[ 2012.09.15 21:14:55 ] Evelyn Meiyi > Hello, Synthia.
[ 2012.09.15 21:14:57 ] Shiroh Yatamii > Hmm....simulacra.
[ 2012.09.15 21:15:41 ] Synthetic Cultist > How are you, Vaun Erryk ?
[ 2012.09.15 21:16:09 ] Shiroh Yatamii > /emote renders himself first as taller, then shorter. Pretty soon he presents himself as a Fedo donning glasses.
[ 2012.09.15 21:16:24 ] Shiroh Yatamii > Grrrgggleegrrrgglle.....I'd tell you what I eat, but you've probably never heard of it....grrrglglle...
[ 2012.09.15 21:16:38 ] Evelyn Meiyi > 'Anything'?
[ 2012.09.15 21:17:20 ] Saede Riordan > /emote blinks.
[ 2012.09.15 21:17:33 ] Synthetic Cultist > the summit is a text channel, and does not show any simulacra.
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I always understood that the summit isn't a virtual place, so it would be renderings of avatars - who could very well display anything you like. Although while that being possible, it is also very possible to enforce *reality filters* that forbid artificial modifications and override them into the "CONCORD File" appearance if it's not a live feed.
But yeah, that's up to the Summit team.
I also question the need to strike the fourth wall on purpose, but vOv.
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Right, if any filters were put in place by the moderators then of course my character would be forced to remain in a certain guise, and I as a player would respect that. But until then I see no reason why people have to call it out simply because it's a little silly. There has been worse, after all. As for deliberately poking at the fourth wall, read my character concept thread (http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=3563.0) :P
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It is not a physical place, but rather a virtual environment that can be distributed and accessed in several forms and versions. 'The Summit' can be linked into from the capsule, from any cam/vid interface out of a pod, or even in pure audio format while you wander around a station/planetside on business. Pilots without a visual feed can be represented by static images to those who are visually interfacing, and live feeds can be established from anyone just perusing the node from their desk somewhere.
A text version is an easy extension.
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That doesn't answer the question Lou originally posed though, Simulacra modification, allowed, or are some sort of filters in place that force your appearance to be human?
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I've always worked on the assumption that that sort of thing is possible.
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Additionally, since most people RP in the Summit while in a ship (and thus in pod), a physical video camera pointing at their face just doesn't make sense. How many people roleplay it such that you see a half-naked pilot surrounded in goop?
Hah yes, very true, but you also have people connecting on the summit that are not in pod at the time. This is probably why people have different visions.
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I'm not a moderator or anything, but I've always operated under the impression that virtual simulations were pretty much par for the course in the Summit. A lot of times, Malcolm is connecting from in the pod and rather than showing his naked body suspended in biofluids, he projects himself doing out-of-pod activities.
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I am grossly disappointed that protoplasm-covered full frontal Mal is not a feature of the summit. Ergo I shall remain absent from it.
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That doesn't answer the question Lou originally posed though, Simulacra modification, allowed, or are some sort of filters in place that force your appearance to be human?
Don't presume to state whether or not my question was answered. That wasn't my question anyway.
The channel MOTD does not state much about things:
[17:38:09] EVE System > Channel MOTD: ((For Out of Character discussion, join the 'OOC' channel. No 'bracketing' please. Remember, The Summit is not a place, it is a comms channel. As such, threatening bodily harm to fellow logged-in users may get you laughed at.))
"It is a comms channel", is all that's in the MOTD. All the description and stuff doesn't matter if it only appears here on Backstage.
So, Rek was trolling, someone said something that denied the existence of the troll comments, and people are now complaining that "A chronicle says I can do this!", so they can troll some more. I am not exactly impressed by this.
This is what I read, first hand.
[ 2012.09.15 21:29:13 ] Louella Dougans > oh, people trolling summit again, eh?
[ 2012.09.15 21:29:21 ] Louella Dougans > meh
[ 2012.09.15 21:29:26 ] Shiroh Yatamii > Not as such
[ 2012.09.15 21:30:24 ] Shiroh Yatamii > I did a VR-like emote whereby Shiroh changed his appearance. Synthetic Cultist was like "No, there's no video aspect. Is text only". Which doesn't appear to be the case, as everyone does visual emotes.
[ 2012.09.15 21:30:38 ] Shiroh Yatamii > Tried discussing it in here with her, was ignored. *shrugs*
This is what I've been shown.
[ 2012.09.15 21:20:10 ] Saede Riordan > When did the summit stop having a video component as an established IC fact?
[ 2012.09.15 21:20:20 ] Shiroh Yatamii > Right? I have to call BS on that Synthia
[ 2012.09.15 21:20:38 ] Shiroh Yatamii > People quite regularly emote things as though there was a video aspect.
saying "I call BS" doesn't count as "tried discussion" as far as I was aware. Not surprised it was ignored.
IN any case, what Synthetic Cultist said:
[ 2012.09.15 21:17:33 ] Synthetic Cultist > the summit is a text channel, and does not show any simulacra.
Is arguably true.
Because the summit is subjective. You cannot compel anyone to see a rabbit if you emote being a rabbit. or Whatever.
And now we have a full page of people arguing they should be allowed to do whatever kind of whatever, and the MOTD is unchanged.
vOv
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If I understand correctly, Synthia and you seem shocked that people have always thought it was a video feed, while most of the time people actually did visual emotes all the time (I can confirm what Rek said, like most people could I guess) ?
And if I understand correctly some other people like Rek seem shocked to learn that some people have always thought it was text only ?
This thread confuses me a lot.
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First off, this:
That doesn't answer the question Lou originally posed though, Simulacra modification, allowed, or are some sort of filters in place that force your appearance to be human?
Is a rephrasing of this
could you clarify something about teh "what is the summit?"
was some kind of kerfuffle about the nature of video/cameras.
Some people said that a camera shows the pilot. Other people were all doing weird stuff with appearing as virtual 3d rabbits and stuff.
Nothing in the MOTD suggests virtual stuff is possible, only cameras and such.
Don't presume to state whether or not my question was answered. That wasn't my question anyway.
Yes, it very clearly was your question. That is exactly the same thing you asked just phrased differently.
The channel MOTD does not state much about things:
[17:38:09] EVE System > Channel MOTD: ((For Out of Character discussion, join the 'OOC' channel. No 'bracketing' please. Remember, The Summit is not a place, it is a comms channel. As such, threatening bodily harm to fellow logged-in users may get you laughed at.))
"It is a comms channel", is all that's in the MOTD. All the description and stuff doesn't matter if it only appears here on Backstage.
That is something entirely offpoint. If you feel you can just ignore what Graelyn and the other moderators say about how the summit is because its listed here and not in the MOTD, then thats a personal thing to be brought up with with them and if they decide to add it into the MOTD.
So, Rek was trolling, someone said something that denied the existence of the troll comments, and people are now complaining that "A chronicle says I can do this!", so they can troll some more. I am not exactly impressed by this.
Rek's actions were entirely in character, and entirely within the realms of fiction. Just because you don't like the way someone RPs, doesn't automatically make it trolling. Also blocking, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blocking_(improv)) which is at the end of the day, what Synthia did there, is not a good way to express a problem with someone's RP. There were plenty of IC ways to take issue with that RP, and if it was really that big of a problem, something could have been said OOC, instead, Synthia ICly simply denied the possibility of the event at all, which is basically the definition of blocking
This is what I read, first hand.
[ 2012.09.15 21:29:13 ] Louella Dougans > oh, people trolling summit again, eh?
[ 2012.09.15 21:29:21 ] Louella Dougans > meh
[ 2012.09.15 21:29:26 ] Shiroh Yatamii > Not as such
[ 2012.09.15 21:30:24 ] Shiroh Yatamii > I did a VR-like emote whereby Shiroh changed his appearance. Synthetic Cultist was like "No, there's no video aspect. Is text only". Which doesn't appear to be the case, as everyone does visual emotes.
[ 2012.09.15 21:30:38 ] Shiroh Yatamii > Tried discussing it in here with her, was ignored. *shrugs*
This is what I've been shown.
[ 2012.09.15 21:20:10 ] Saede Riordan > When did the summit stop having a video component as an established IC fact?
[ 2012.09.15 21:20:20 ] Shiroh Yatamii > Right? I have to call BS on that Synthia
[ 2012.09.15 21:20:38 ] Shiroh Yatamii > People quite regularly emote things as though there was a video aspect.
saying "I call BS" doesn't count as "tried discussion" as far as I was aware. Not surprised it was ignored.
Now, lets get that one more time with the entire contents of the channel instead of just cherry picking certain lines:
[ 2012.09.15 21:20:09 ] Saede Riordan > When did the summit stop having a video component as an established IC fact?
[ 2012.09.15 21:20:21 ] Shiroh Yatamii > Right? I have to call BS on that Synthia
[ 2012.09.15 21:20:38 ] Shiroh Yatamii > People quite regularly emote things as though there was a video aspect.
[ 2012.09.15 21:21:00 ] Garret Stormin > There's always been a video aspect.
[ 2012.09.15 21:21:11 ] Garret Stormin > Now, it was always an option, you could not show your feed if you didn't want to.
[ 2012.09.15 21:21:14 ] Amaitiyana Maranam > I always thought there was too
[ 2012.09.15 21:21:15 ] Garret Stormin > But it's always been there.
[ 2012.09.15 21:22:13 ] Garret Stormin > Oh! Right, back to this.
[ 2012.09.15 21:22:13 ] Shiroh Yatamii > So...there we go. A little odd to say "No there isn't" IC when it's pretty well-established. I would have called it out IC but I couldn't think of any way to draw attention to it without going OOC
[ 2012.09.15 21:22:29 ] Garret Stormin > /emote smacks Ama upside the head with a pillow.
[ 2012.09.15 21:23:01 ] Louella Dougans > o/
[ 2012.09.15 21:23:07 ] Garret Stormin > Hallo.
[ 2012.09.15 21:23:08 ] Samuel Ourias > Hello Louella.
[ 2012.09.15 21:23:08 ] Amaitiyana Maranam > /emote sits down and has a cry.
[ 2012.09.15 21:23:21 ] Garret Stormin > /emote sits down with her and pats her back.
[ 2012.09.15 21:23:29 ] Louella Dougans > sup?
[ 2012.09.15 21:23:39 ] Carlani Hudson > Lou \o/
[ 2012.09.15 21:23:50 ] Louella Dougans > me \o/
[ 2012.09.15 21:24:23 ] Amaitiyana Maranam > /emote punches Garret.
[ 2012.09.15 21:24:24 ] Amaitiyana Maranam > Meany.
[ 2012.09.15 21:24:37 ] Garret Stormin > /emote hits her with the pillow again.
[ 2012.09.15 21:25:13 ] Louella Dougans > hows things carlani ?
[ 2012.09.15 21:25:18 ] Carlani Hudson > Pretty well, really
[ 2012.09.15 21:25:37 ] Amaitiyana Maranam > /emote weeps louder.
[ 2012.09.15 21:25:48 ] Carlani Hudson > What about you ?
[ 2012.09.15 21:26:03 ] Louella Dougans > eh, alright
[ 2012.09.15 21:26:45 ] Carlani Hudson > \o/ ?
[ 2012.09.15 21:27:25 ] Amaitiyana Maranam > /emote lies on Louella's lap.
[ 2012.09.15 21:27:31 ] Louella Dougans > :o
[ 2012.09.15 21:27:34 ] Garret Stormin > /emote is left out again.
[ 2012.09.15 21:27:37 ] Garret Stormin > /emote rolls around in the snow.
[ 2012.09.15 21:27:57 ] Amaitiyana Maranam > Lou seems like she would be good at snuggles.
[ 2012.09.15 21:28:18 ] Louella Dougans > o:
[ 2012.09.15 21:28:24 ] Carlani Hudson > /emote snuggles Lou !
[ 2012.09.15 21:29:14 ] Louella Dougans > oh, people trolling summit again, eh?
[ 2012.09.15 21:29:21 ] Louella Dougans > meh
[ 2012.09.15 21:29:26 ] Shiroh Yatamii > Not as such
[ 2012.09.15 21:30:24 ] Shiroh Yatamii > I did a VR-like emote whereby Shiroh changed his appearance. Synthetic Cultist was like "No, there's no video aspect. Is text only". Which doesn't appear to be the case, as everyone does visual emotes.
[ 2012.09.15 21:30:38 ] Shiroh Yatamii > Tried discussing it in here with her, was ignored. *shrugs*
[ 2012.09.15 21:32:14 ] Stitcher > everyone emotes in that channel. *everyone*
[ 2012.09.15 21:32:29 ] Stitcher > including, I must point out, synth/val/connie/etc
[ 2012.09.15 21:32:44 ] Amaitiyana Maranam > Well
[ 2012.09.15 21:33:06 ] Amaitiyana Maranam > This community wouldn't be what it is without a bit of rampant hypocracy.
IN any case, what Synthetic Cultist said:
[ 2012.09.15 21:17:33 ] Synthetic Cultist > the summit is a text channel, and does not show any simulacra.
Is arguably true.
Because the summit is subjective. You cannot compel anyone to see a rabbit if you emote being a rabbit. or Whatever.
And now we have a full page of people arguing they should be allowed to do whatever kind of whatever, and the MOTD is unchanged.
What the discussion is about is what should be allowed to constitute the shared reality of the summit. If we decide that people can't manipulate their image into a rabbit, then so be it. But if you want to actually be able to interact with other people, you need to be able to agree upon what is true and possible in the universe and what is not. If we start down the road of 'your RP isn't real because I disagree with it' then you can easily say that Ava Starfire isn't a shaman, Tiberious Thessalonia is not Sansha, and you are not a space nun. The point of RPing is to establish an objective reality for our characters to interact with each other inside of. If you cannot come up with an acceptable shared reality, then you cannot RP.
The summit is a public channel, people will say all sorts of things in there that do not, and cannot have any basis in fact game mechanically. While Evelyn Meiyi claims she is talking to her accountant, what she actually is doing is sitting at a desk somewhere playing an MMO, and we know that. There is an instinctive awareness that it is just a game, and in order to accept anything that is said there, requires the wilful suspension of disbelief. If people start poking holes in that, then all possibility of RP falls apart, and it devolves into a he said she said pissing match.
So no, I'm not arguing to be able to be allowed to do whatever kind of whatever, if it is decided that modifying ones appearance should not be allowed, then that becomes a rule, and we abide it. I would just like to know what is and what is not allowed in order to better everyone's shared reality.
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If I understand correctly, Synthia and you seem shocked that people have always thought it was a video feed, while most of the time people actually did visual emotes all the time (I can confirm what Rek said, like most people could I guess) ?
And if I understand correctly some other people like Rek seem shocked to learn that some people have always thought it was text only ?
This thread confuses me a lot.
No. I'm pointing out the MOTD doesn't contain information about what it is supposed to be, and asking for that to be clarified, since there seems to be something that's causing friction.
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I should probably weigh in on this.
However, given the simpering triviality of the arguement, I would rather keep things vague, as the two sides inevitably escalate into full blown bite-your-kids type hatred, preferably with knife violence.
The Summit has voice, text, video, audio, the whole works. You can keep tabs on it anywhere, in text or audio or anything you like.
The only things it doesn't have are hook-ups with force-feedback for your sex toys...and there's probably an app for that.
Some people connect IC'text', being they are typing (ie it's the only connection method available, maybe they're in a WH or something). Some capsuleers only receive this way. To them in the pod, I'm sure it appears much as it does in game; a floating box in your general field of view, chattering away like a hundred other such boxes.
When out of the pod, you can set up a cam and broadcast video, or whatever. People sure do seem to get muted a lot from what follows when they are doing this in Summit....
If there is a limit to widely available interfaces, I'm sure the Super-rich can afford to broadcast whatever data they want to the feed. All can be blocked, or opened at will by a user or sender, etc.
There isn't a lot of limits. Someone can visually represent themselves IC as any weird ass shit they want to, but any user of the channel can just...r-clik...showinfo...and see you...
Is any of this unreasonable? :cube:
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[edits!]
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No, that seems reasonable and fine to me.
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Of course, that's fine Graelyn.
So, Rek was trolling, someone said something that denied the existence of the troll comments, and people are now complaining that "A chronicle says I can do this!", so they can troll some more. I am not exactly impressed by this.
This just reeks of "Ur doing it wrong". Whether or not you're impressed is irrelevant; if the PF supports in-universe actions that may not be to your liking (both IC and OOC), then you have to deal with it. Not everyone wants to play a prim and proper Space Nun, or constructed capsuleer who is queen of Kaztropol. Other people play and think differently than you. That's part of what makes this game great. And no, I wasn't trolling. If your feelings were hurt in any way, then I apologize. I was being silly, because my character can be rather silly. If you disagree with how I play my character, then you may tell me so directly. Making the blanket statement "this is text only" while in-character was just confusing as hell and led to this thread's discussion. If Synthia had simply said "I'm receiving text-only" then that would have been fine and dandy. Instead, by saying "this is text only", the implication is that my character didn't do what he did, and that's someone else placing limits on the actions of my character. You can see why my feathers were a tad ruffled, particularly when the community at large agrees that the emote in question was possible (even if silly).
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Ummm.
Wouldn't it just be simpler that the channel is exactly what it is, a text based channel.
And the characters could choose themselves to react to the /emotes just like the players do?
Instead of forcing people to state constantly to any interaction on how they perceive them?
(It was Gaven that was heading the Summit project in PIE.)
I do find it a tad hilarious that someone calls their own character a troll, when they are referred to as a troll by another person their friend gets huffed up about it and they themselves get huffed up about it as well.
:roll:
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Ummm.
Wouldn't it just be simpler that the channel is exactly what it is, a text based channel.
And the characters could choose themselves to react to the /emotes just like the players do?
Instead of forcing people to state constantly to any interaction on how they perceive them?
(It was Gaven that was heading the Summit project in PIE.)
I am not sure but it seems to me that's precisely because the channel remained vague as such that these problems occured.
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The more 'advanced' interaction in the sphere of RP is younger than the channel.
Including the PF, so I would think that originally such concepts were not part of the original concept of the channel.
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I personally don't know why you'd want to argue in favour of limiting the scope and potential for RP in an RP room rather than the broadening of it, but whatever.
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I do find it a tad hilarious that someone calls their own character a troll, when they are referred to as a troll by another person their friend gets huffed up about it and they themselves get huffed up about it as well.
:roll:
In my mind, there are actually two different things behind the word 'troll' one of which is fine, one of which is not, and saying 'he was trolling' or 'she was trolling' in an OOC context does a discredit to the issue,
There is IC trolling, which is, to remain IC, remain within the rules of the channel, and be a troll anyway. This in my mind is just fine and dandy and if it causes problems they should be dealt with IC.
Then there is OOC trolling, which is to be out of character in an in character channel specifically for the purpose of frustrating people OOCly and ruining their roleplay. This is obviously not allowed, and this is something that as a CEO, I definitely do not allow, and instances of this should be brought to me.
So when people out of character say "Rek was trolling" there, then I look at the logs, see that he was entirely IC, and say "yeah, Shiroh was trolling. But Shiroh is a crazy space captain who talks to his drones and does all sorts of weird things. Rek wasn't OOC trolling, and wasn't trying to ruin anyones RP.
If people OOC have a problem with something IC, then that is something that needs to be brought up here.Its what people did with the Stillwater issue, its what Louella did here, and I consider that all well and good, and am perfectly willing to abide by the decisions made here, because it is better for everyone involved if I do so. There was a question of what was allowed in the channel, and it was answered.
In short: troll RP is still RP until such a time as its decided that the channel must be entirely for super serious spaceship captains. If that gets decided, then so be it, but until that time, calling people OOC trolls because you don't like their RP does them a tremendous disservice.
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I am not sure but it seems to me that's precisely because the channel remained vague as such that these problems occured.
No problems have occured.
A tiny handful people (some of whom no longer play EVE anyways) are having a little RPers tiff over something irrelevant, which is just so darned uncommon...
If it seems like I'm not all that concerned over manufactured drama, well...
Note: Those of you using this section of Backstage to get shots in on other people...you just keep that up and see what happens.
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Ummm.
Wouldn't it just be simpler that the channel is exactly what it is, a text based channel.
Feel free to connect to it in text-only mode, which I'm sure is the default, and ignore anything that isn't text (since you wouldn't see it).
Just because you want to be limited doesn't mean I'm going to blanket suppress everyone.
Do you even play EVE anymore Lallara?
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I am not sure but it seems to me that's precisely because the channel remained vague as such that these problems occured.
No problems have occured.
A tiny handful people (some of whom no longer play EVE anyways) are having a little RPers tiff over something irrelevant, which is just so darned uncommon...
If it seems like I'm not all that concerned over manufactured drama, well...
Note: Those of you using this section of Backstage to get shots in on other people...you just keep that up and see what happens.
I was merely refering to this specific topic and the logs posted here, nothing more.
If that's not a problem and a matter a semantics, well, call it as you wish, I don't know what other word to use. vOv
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From what I see here, I'd say that roleplaying a Fedo with glasses (Fedos have no eyes, by the way, just to point out) is sorta asking for trouble. I'm sure you expected this in some form when you created a character designed to poke at the fourth wall. Some roleplayers don't want to be reminded of the 4th wall IC as well as OOC. It breaks immersion, and can ruin the experience for others.
That said, I read your character's bio and like the idea. I think it's a good one, but I am saying that by nature you will run into people who really don't like the less immersive (or is it MORE immersive, to explain OOC content?) methods used. In the end, you'll be called a troll, and you'll be called out for things your character did that people just don't like.
I personally think improv blocking is a perfectly legitimate way to handle these things. This is a game after all, and people owe you no responsibility to hash it out in a long discussion about what they think you should do with your character. If people don't like your character, and improv block you, perhaps it is saving them from drama they don't want to be involved in. Not everyone wants to discuss this sort of stuff in their free time. At least they didn't actually -block- you, which is also a legitimate option (though extreme).
If your character is pushing the boundries of commonly accepted RP to try something new, I think you should be prepared for people to not want to RP with you. Some won't like your ideas, and some won't bother dealing with them. Pushing the issue won't help.
TL;DR
Neither Rek nor Synthia was in the wrong to do what they did.
Rek was exploring new RP possibilities. Bravo for creativity.
Synthia was avoiding something she didn't feel obliged to deal with. Bravo for picking your fights.
Meh. Just my opinion though, and I probably got some facts wrong anyways.
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or is it MORE immersive, to explain OOC content?
That was, in fact, the entire intent behind the character. When 99% of the EVE population acts a certain way, I thought it'd be neat to take such behavior in-character and try to figure out how a common baseliner of Caldari background becomes "an EVE player" in mindset. But as the idea has been met with increasing hostility, I've basically abandoned the concept as can be seen in my updated character concept thread. A character who acts like the other 99% of players is just weird and not received well. I find this to be a shame because I feel as though the RP community is rather insular; it is hard for "very serious" characters and their players to really interface with the non-roleplayers (it would be rather hard for an IC Amarr loyalist to go on a "just for fun" fleet with Autocannons Anonymous, for example).
I don't want to tie my gameplay down to the same group of 50-some people who aren't going to join my corp and be in my fleets and actually play with me. So that's why I made my character a certain way, and I see that it has failed.
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I can kind of empathise with your situation Rek, but have found that it is quite possible to interact with the 'meta' of the game and conslidate it into your gameplay, although such is usually not 'Summit material'. For example, Solarienne participates in RVB ganked as it is effectively an 'out of CONCORD Jurisdiction' Blood sport - combat sports and violence based gambling being very attractive entertainment in the State. It is, of course, ethically and morally dubious, but due to the nature of most null sec operations, it is virtually an anti-pirate operation combined with capsuleer sponsored gambling services (through SOMER blink).
Additionally, SHARE have multiple pirate allies that they rp quietly about as 'associates and allies' if required. The key isp laying to your target audience - after all, do they really need to know the details?
That isn't to say it is not difficult, evidently it is as you are no slouch when it comes to roleplaying. I think the key element is an environment of support in any rp - in which I have found WHG and NISYN roleplayers to be my 'bros who have my back' if I feel that I am not being received well, and people who are unafraid to say it how it is, if the problem is the transmitter and not the receiver. I have to say though, RP is almost as elitist as null sec, but with far different qualifiers. Protip is basically 'don't play their game' - find people who think like you do, have a great time and just put on the right filter in the right environment (or detonate their spess shaps).
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Way back, the operator of The Summit was Ashar Kor-Azor, and iirc, she described the summit as being like a teleconference. Wall of portraits, and one of them would flash if someone said something.
Was a conference at one point where Ashar created a virtual environment with seats and lecterns, was discontinued after a while.
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Note: Those of you using this section of Backstage to get shots in on other people...you just keep that up and see what happens.
I want to preface this with a positive comment. The Summit can be a fun place. It is a great place to meet other people ICly in game.
There seem to have been many positive changes in the channel lately, and the organization and dedication of its moderators is commendable.
I personally don’t visit “The Summit”. I don’t because I had a bad experience with a moderate.
I admit on reflection that “initially” it was my ignorance and arrogance that caused the issue.
I suppose this will be considered a troll, and will get me “banned”. But it’s this attitude of arrogance that keeps a lot of “less desperate” RPers away from The Summit.
Threats Graelyn? Really?
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I like to warn people before I get all moderator-ey.
Fret about it if you like, but it seems like wasted energy...
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To correct your rumor of founding. Gaven funded Alianora Dushan and personally founded the channel. I don't believe this has ever been information shared IC though.
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I know this sounds insane, but I've been looking all over the forums and Google. I can't find out how to actually get into The Summit. I'm new to EVE roleplaying, and I wanted to watch and read, but I can't figure out how/where I need to be to join.
If someone could direct me that would be fantastic.
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Join the channel 'The Summit'
If you need help joining channels, then you do it from the chatbox window.
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Thank you! I found the channel, but there is no one here. Sad face.
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There's always people in it, it's just whether they feel like talking is the question. Every channel has downtimes.
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It's actually been fairly busy today (and tonight). I saw you in the userlist, so I dunno how long you were paying attention.
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It's also worth noting, for new players, that the channel has a delayed user list. So when you first join, you're unlikely to see how many people are even present in the channel unless/until someone speaks. Just as every closed eye ain't sleep, every empty user list ain't empty.