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[Bastian Valoron]

For most of modern human history long distance communications has been handled via messengers of some kind.  Occasionally, depending on local conditions signaling mechanisms could be used.   In other words, a trusted person (or animal) carried the message over long distances.

Different peoples and cultures develop technologies at different rates and may even encounter a scientific phenomena or principle, but not recognize its practical application/lack the technology to use the practical application.  An example of this was the principles behind a steam engine during the Greek Classical era.

My understanding is the Caldari, for whatever reason, were technologically behind the Gallente at first contact.

Sure. In some fan fiction pieces the technological difference has been portrayed to be smaller. I guess it's more likely to have been a steam punk vs cyber punk style encounter then.

[orange]

Sure. In some fan fiction pieces the technological difference has been portrayed to be smaller. I guess it's more likely to have been a steam punk vs cyber punk style encounter then.

Exactly the aesthetic I think of.

Re: Amarrian vs Luminarian Advancement

I think part of the reason for the Caldari & Gallente being relative upstarts (and in some veins surpassing the Amarr) is the amount of internal division they both faced (and continue to face).  I do not picture any particular Caldari or Gallente pre-space empire establishing a successful world spanning imperium.

I would go far as to argue that the first Gallente to make contact with the Caldari did not represent a completely unified Gallente populous.

The Amarr conquered their world and then continued to press outwards must have been driven by scripture/religious fervor.  Perhaps radio signals from nearby people spurred their advancement into the stars to reclaim all!

[Hamish Grayson]

An equivalent to Galileo’s telescope, invented in 1610, should have been enough to discover a civilization capable of space flight within the same solar system.   PF does say that the Caldari were entering the industrial era (mid 1700’s), but because of the lack of a Galileo like telescope it’s my personal opinion that the Caldari had not advanced their understanding of mathematics or physics past the early 1600s.

I suppose that could mean that some of the technologies of the industrial era had been invented but had not yet become widely used.

According to Wikipedia certain discoveries in coal and steel lead the way to the industrial era, and I believe it was Herko who suggested that the  reason the Caldari lagged behind was because Caldari Prime was terraformed into a habitable planet and therefore didn’t have a lot of fossil fuels to begin with.   This may tie into the significance steel has in the Caldari culture.  It may represent strength, power and technological advancement. 

It’s also my personal opinion that the original authors of Caldari PF pulled heavily from the events that lead to Japan’s industrial revolution; the Meiji Restoration and Satsuma Rebellion for inspiration of the time period between first contact up to the start of the Caldari-Gallente war.

When the Satsuma-Chōshū Alliance overthrew the Tokugawa Shogunate they used the slogan sonnō jōi or  “restore the Emperor, expel the barbarian.“   

Japanese knew that they were behind the rest of the world when American Commodore Matthew C. Perry came to Japan to try to issue a treaty that would open up Japanese ports to trade. Perry came to Japan in large warships with armament and technology that far outclassed those of Japan at the time. The leaders of the Meiji Restoration, as this revolution came to be known, acted in the name of restoring imperial rule in order to strengthen Japan against the threat represented by the colonial powers of the day.

Although the Satsuma Domain had been one of the key players in the Meiji Restoration and the Boshin War, and although many men from Satsuma had risen to influential positions in the new Meiji government, there was growing dissatisfaction with the direction the country was taking. The very rapid and massive changes to Japanese culture, language, dress and society appeared to many samurai to be a betrayal of the jōi ("expel the barbarian") portion of the sonnō jōi justification used to overthrow the former Tokugawa shogunate.

Two conflicting goals here; the need to learn from the technologically advanced society inorder to survive and the need to isolate themselves from the that society inorder to survive as a culture.   

Despite still being very xenophobic, the Japanese of this era still sent thousands of students abroad and hired westerners to help modernize their technology.     

Similarly, I believe during the Caldari’s time as part of the Federation they would have distrustful of the Gallente and resentful of the influence their culture had on Caldari society but keenly aware of how outclassed they were in terms of technology.    Because they were so much stronger, they realized they had no choice but to learn their secrets even if it meant playing ball for the time being.

[orange]

An equivalent to Galileo’s telescope, invented in 1610, should have been enough to discover a civilization capable of space flight within the same solar system.   PF does say that the Caldari were entering the industrial era (mid 1700’s), but because of the lack of a Galileo like telescope it’s my personal opinion that the Caldari had not advanced their understanding of mathematics or physics past the early 1600s.

I disagree that a Renaissance-era telescope would be sufficient to identify a civilization capable of spaceflight within the same solar system.  As an example, the first maps of Mars in 1877 had features that were optical illusions, but (along with poor translation) led other scientist to speculate about the existence of intelligent life on Mars.

Recently, MRO took a photo of Earth & Moon from Mars orbit using HiRISE.  You can't really tell if Earth has a civilization or not from the image.

Mars is ~20x as close to Earth as Caldari Prime is to Gallente Prime.  (CCP really needs to hire someone to clean up some of their solar system & planet data.)

[Casiella]

They did... I hope they didn't spend much money on him because I think they'd have done a better job with a physics undergrand from any decent university.

[Ken]

Recently, MRO took a photo of Earth & Moon from Mars orbit using HiRISE.  You can't really tell if Earth has a civilization or not from the image.

Had not seen this.  It is awesome.

[Vieve]

An equivalent to Galileo’s telescope, invented in 1610, should have been enough to discover a civilization capable of space flight within the same solar system.   PF does say that the Caldari were entering the industrial era (mid 1700’s), but because of the lack of a Galileo like telescope it’s my personal opinion that the Caldari had not advanced their understanding of mathematics or physics past the early 1600s.

I disagree that a Renaissance-era telescope would be sufficient to identify a civilization capable of spaceflight within the same solar system.  As an example, the first maps of Mars in 1877 had features that were optical illusions, but (along with poor translation) led other scientist to speculate about the existence of intelligent life on Mars.

Recently, MRO took a photo of Earth & Moon from Mars orbit using HiRISE.  You can't really tell if Earth has a civilization or not from the image.

Mars is ~20x as close to Earth as Caldari Prime is to Gallente Prime.  (CCP really needs to hire someone to clean up some of their solar system & planet data.)

A thought:  since the Gallente are allegedly pioneers in robotics and drone technology, the first visual evidence of the Caldari might have been transmitted back to Gallente Prime from a space survey craft (a la the Voyagers), rather than captured by a planet-based or near-orbit telescope.

[Jev North]

I could be wrong, but it seems to me an industrial society will likely be lighting up the night half of the planet in quite noticeable ways. Doubly so when someone aims a spectrograph at those funny points of light; so if it weren't for the (completely stupid) 10 AU minimum distance, late 1800s tech might be enough for proof positive of an alien civilization.

[Casiella]

* Casiella wonders if a Gallente probe like our Mars rovers might not have found the Caldari

[Mithfindel]

I could be wrong, but it seems to me an industrial society will likely be lighting up the night half of the planet in quite noticeable ways. Doubly so when someone aims a spectrograph at those funny points of light; so if it weren't for the (completely stupid) 10 AU minimum distance, late 1800s tech might be enough for proof positive of an alien civilization.

Our society most certainly is lighting up a whole lot of our planet at night. However, at the picture taken from Mars orbit, looks pretty dark to me.

So, theory: It might be possible, but only if viewing the dark side only. (Because the illuminated side, at those distances, is so bright that artificial lights just vanish.)

[Jev North]

I expect that's more of a photography than an observation issue. The stars in between the earth and moon in that picture haven't 'vanished,' for example; you just can't photograph them at the same time as the bright sides of the planets without saturating the image. Same reason there's no stars showing on photographs taken on the Moon.

[Vieve]

* Casiella wonders if a Gallente probe like our Mars rovers might not have found the Caldari

Welll, if I remember correctly, we did lose one or two on Mars before we got images back, spawning some comedy and speculation about their being destroyed by little green men.

[Casiella]

You do remember correctly, although fortunately we have enough going on there that the possibility of LGM is fairly well excluded. Arthur C. Clarke wrote some great short stories on the idea, though.

[Gottii]

I think it would be awesome if first contact for the Caldari came in the form of Gallente reality TV.

Would explain a lot of the hostility.

[Malcolm Khross]

I think it would be awesome if first contact for the Caldari came in the form of Gallente reality TV.

Would explain a lot of the hostility.

Hahahahahaha

I normally try to contribute something to a thread when I post but this was just funny and I had to comment on it.