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[GoGo Yubari]

If the implant costs more than... say a Kameiras, it is not cost effective and would not be implemented by any empire.

It's just... pfffft.

The moment one empire realizes that the enemy has supersoldiers who never die, becoming more and more powerful with time, while their own troops are consigned to inferiority through mortality is the day they must have those soldiers, too. Then the ISK will be there.

[Graelyn]

Yes, and what prevents me to use their fabulous cloning implants ? I am a capsuleer and rich enough to get one. Unless their access is restricted in some kind of way ?

Need PF info on this.

I believe Templar One detailed some massive changes to a major cerebral cortex that was necessary for the implants to function. I would assume that capsuleers rather need that chunk of protein for other things.

Confirmation would be nice, but that's where it sits for me.

[lallara zhuul]

That's the thing, they won't be supersoldiers.

They will just be soldiers that respawn, that they would learn anything from their death is debatable (since they will be controlled by fps players, they won't be very... co-operative or tactically minded.)

It's pretty much a farce

[GoGo Yubari]

That's the thing, they won't be supersoldiers.

They will just be soldiers that respawn, that they would learn anything from their death is debatable (since they will be controlled by fps players, they won't be very... co-operative or tactically minded.)

It's pretty much a farce

Their game mechanical skills get better. They become more and more like supersoldiers as time goes on.

[BloodBird]

Technically, that still don't make them SUPER-soldiers, merely soldiers that become more experienced and gain veterancy, much like any other surviving soldier of any era. However, the dust tech allows them the option of respawning from death that would otherwise cut that learning trip off for any other soldiers. Their only improvement over normal soldiers is their quasi-immortality, unless DUST514 has some PF info about training regimes/modifications/superior gear that actually improves their combat effectiveness beyond anyone else.

And even then all those other soldiers could also be trained/geared/modified like the dusters are, but they still die for good when shot, so back to square one.

[Gottii]

Yes, and what prevents me to use their fabulous cloning implants ? I am a capsuleer and rich enough to get one. Unless their access is restricted in some kind of way ?

Need PF info on this.

I believe Templar One detailed some massive changes to a major cerebral cortex that was necessary for the implants to function. I would assume that capsuleers rather need that chunk of protein for other things.

Confirmation would be nice, but that's where it sits for me.

I vaguely remember hearing something that being a DUST soldier or being a capsuleer was mutually exclusive.  I'll try to find the post.

[Morwen Lagann]

In terms of gameplay it will be, and it's kinda extendable to IC stuff as well.

In order to make it so that DUST and EVE players can share various resources on the Tranquility server - including corporations, alliances and chat channels, DUST characters and EVE characters need to share the same namespace on the Tranquility database, which means you won't be seeing any DUST soldiers running around with our EVE characters' names.

[GoGo Yubari]

Technically, that still don't make them SUPER-soldiers, merely soldiers that become more experienced and gain veterancy, much like any other surviving soldier of any era. However, the dust tech allows them the option of respawning from death that would otherwise cut that learning trip off for any other soldiers. Their only improvement over normal soldiers is their quasi-immortality, unless DUST514 has some PF info about training regimes/modifications/superior gear that actually improves their combat effectiveness beyond anyone else.

And even then all those other soldiers could also be trained/geared/modified like the dusters are, but they still die for good when shot, so back to square one.

Well... I bet that when Dust rolls in, and once my Duster is super experienced in a few years time, he will be killing regular troops in-game like a super-soldier and the only thing that can stand in his way will be another Duster.

So yeah, I think all the empires need to get in on this shit pronto.

[Silas Vitalia]

Regarding the Dusties,

They took time in the novel to give a description of their capabilities, if I recall they had a substantially reinforced skeletal and muscular system / semi-cyberization putting them well into the league of 'super soldier' when compared to normal humans. Extreme strength to carry enormously heavy weaponry with ease, augmented reflexes, augmented agility (leaping and running extremes), and more importantly portable nanotech repair in the form of injectable canisters that would field-stitch and repair normally grievous wounds.

What you'd get for all this would be -extremely- worthwhile spec ops teams and small units to carry out dirty and behind enemy lines work, but when it really hits the fan with the main armies and 'large' weapons ripping apart whole divisions of men I don't see their usefulness.  The problem with the respawning is you need a mobile clone van close enough to be useful, and on a battlefield of many you better believe that would be the first thing targeted by a numerous enemy.  I'd rather have 1,000 khaimeras than take a risk on 100 of the dusties for x10 the cost catching an errant missile to their clone vat and wiping the whole batch in one go.

Now...these guys would make -incredible- forward scouts, and on-the-ground commanders. 

No more need to keep your general and tacticians in the rear for risk of injury.  Make them dusties and send them to the front lines to get a -real- sense of the battle and make the proper adjustments, if they catch a shell or get shot, it's of little consequence.

[Gottii]

I think people are overlooking the fact that DUSTies simply wouldnt fear death, and really, really downplaying what that would mean in actual combat.  Combat is not a video game.  Its intensely scary, frightening, visceral, emotional, even for the best and most well trained soldiers.  People dont want to die.  Dont fool yourself, even the most elite soldiers will literally shit their pants and whimper during say a brutal and intense artillery barrage.

Fear makes people do dumb things, makes their hands shake, makes it hard to make good decisions.  Its mammalian, instinctual, it happens even in the best units. Even units trained "to not fear death" are often indoctrinated to a point were their battlefield performance suffers in other ways. (ex: Japanese soldiers in WWII were indoctrinated to not fear death....which is one reason why the US Marines killed them at a ratio literally greater than 20 to 1.  They wanted to find death in battle, and they did.)

DUSTies wouldnt have that.  They simply wouldnt worry about it.  Its not an emotional event for them.  They could be completely rational and calculating at all times.  I think their battlefield performance would reflect it, would give them a huge edge, to the determent of even the most elite opponents.

I'll take 100 DUSTies over 1000 elite soldiers any day of the week.

[GoGo Yubari]

Spot on, Gottii.

[lallara zhuul]

If the DUSTies are highly augmented then it makes them even more less viable economically.

I personally don't buy the fact that just because death is easily overcome by a DUSTie, it will ever become trivial.

There is no training in the world that can overcome the traumatizing effects of being wounded.

A DUSTer will be traumatized by each and every death and will be completely useless in the long run, unless they are doped up with combat drugs into oblivion. If they remain functional just because of those drugs, then why are they not applied to regular soldier to make them more effective in combat and unafraid of death.

The traumatizing effects of death could be eliminated by editing the download of the consciousness (few seconds before death are erased from the memory) but then most of the important bits of learning would be missed and a memory buffer of a predetermined time would not help in case a DUSTer gets trapped (or tortured after capture.)

Also the suicide pill option in these cases would start to encourage suicide in the long run, leading to DUSTers offing themselves when things start to go up shit creek and they are without a paddle.

If the soldiers do not have the reason to fight for their lives or even the instinct of survival left because of the triviality of death, through respawnage or constant use of suicide pills, they will be completely ineffective.

[Lyn Farel]

Same than capsuleers ?

[lallara zhuul]

Capsuleers have plenty of different emotional incentives of keeping their ship intact, iskies, team needs you, holding space and whatnot.
Also the capsuleer does not feel the pain of its death, the death is instantaneous once the breach happens, therefore no damage happens to the body of the capsuleer.
(I don't believe that the capsuleer feels anything that is happening to the ship, like it was its body.)

[Desiderya]

(I don't believe that the capsuleer feels anything that is happening to the ship, like it was its body.)

Actually I was thinking about that one yesterday. I know it's in TEA, in an absolutely absurd way ( Capsuleer feeling whats going on in the ship not by being in the pod, but by TOUCHING it with his skin. ) and was looking for PF references outside of that book. I am unsure how to use it, because the TEA description is 'magic' and I haven't actually found a real description how the interfacing works yet, although it was a rather quick research. If someone has some PF snippets I'd be grateful.
I could see it working akin to rigging in Shadowrun, which kind of routes the drone/vehicles sensory inputs through the rigger's brain which makes him experience - feel - the world through the sensors of the drone.
With the use of biofeedback filters and other tech magic like that no capsuleer would be distracted by pain, which would be impractical.