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[Kiki Truzhari]

So, I really don't feel like fucking with more tables and mirroring the information over on a second website just yet, so here is the topic for the language, it has what we've worked out so far.

http://teraamatar.userboard.net/t105-i-m-making-a-language#367

I'm going to expand it bit by bit over time. Comments, critiques, and criticisms are welcome. I want to make something shiny and useful.

[Katrina Oniseki]

Oh so that's what Astrid was saying the other day to Kat. I just.... didn't reply... because I didn't want to be caught in the "IS YOUR TRANSLATOR NOT WORKING?!" trope. I thought it was a Napanii word I didn't know.

Good stuff.

[Matariki Rain]

I know you really want a synthetic language. I appreciate that you've taken feedback from last time and are trying to localise your language so it's no longer all-Matari. It so happens that you've chosen a localisation--especially further on in your write-up, where you refer to it as "sebiestor" rather than "Northern Region Sebiestor"--that would most likely affect a number of us with clans established in Mikramurka.

More to the point, from my perspective, the language you're devising is nothing like the elements we have in-game that are supposedly Sebiestor. Since you're describing it as a heritage language, I think it's valid to use the Sebiestor bynames offered in the character generator as a resource and comparison, and I've copied those below. Since you're saying it's a contributor to Modern Standard Matari it's at least interesting to compare it with the wider pool of Matari placenames (system names) and personal names (agent names) in EVE. Your language and these examples do not appear to come from the same language group. Look at the sounds and letters used in each: your "sh", "q", double vowels, apostrophes (for a glottal stop?), and pattern of ending words with vowels, versus Sebiestor's consonant clusters and pattern of ending words with consonants.

From what I can see in EVE, "Matari" language is a Northern Germanic language akin to Old Norse that's been put through a gentle space warp, and from the name lists it appears that Sebiestor is the Matari language that's most like Old Norse. If you decided to adopt Icelandic-on-a-Latin-keyboard as the basis for Sebiestor I might even go with you on that. But not this.

(By the way, the construction "You I thank" is [object noun][subject noun][verb], not [noun][verb][adjective].)

Agalder
Aldard
Aldeland
Alduin
Aldurald
Alfrir
Algaert
Alland
Andrard
Anstian
Arbosa
Artrald
Askold
Askulf
Atavuli
Atruin
Auduin
Aumer
Austrene
Beldrulf
Bererund
Dadunur
Egdald
Eginald
Egivand
Egnald
Elongur
Eriker
Fidard
Gengod
Huren
Ituin
Jakuard
Joringer
Kanenald
Kaundur
Madeveda
Malukker
Mangeiri
Mernher
Midumulf
Naskingar
Olgidar
Ongrard
Ornulf
Oskold
Renalard
Ronuken
Sinulf
Sokarad

[Kiki Truzhari]

I honestly went with more sami/inuit roots for the language, having it rooted in the languages that the tribes in the very northern part of mikramurka speak. I pulled a lot of inspiration from some writing Ava did. I wanted the language to be something that sort of flowed organically. There's a lot of spanish and welsh in it, and it just sort of...rolls.
It comes out not very germanic/nordic at all, but I think thats okay. Its one of those things you don't really have to use if you don't want. A lot of the people in my corp like it and say that their clans speak it, but that's really a pretty small facet of the overall sebiestor population. the language is sort of an artefact, spoken by the people still living primitive but happy lives where they've been for thousands of years, long after the rest of the matari culture has marched onwards. I guess I set out to make a language that sounded pretty, more then one that's really all that PF compliant. I should probably tweak the language description though so it seems less mainstream.

[Astrid Stjerna]

I know you really want a synthetic language. I appreciate that you've taken feedback from last time and are trying to localise your language so it's no longer all-Matari. It so happens that you've chosen a localisation--especially further on in your write-up, where you refer to it as "sebiestor" rather than "Northern Region Sebiestor"--that would most likely affect a number of us with clans established in Mikramurka.

More to the point, from my perspective, the language you're devising is nothing like the elements we have in-game that are supposedly Sebiestor. Since you're describing it as a heritage language, I think it's valid to use the Sebiestor bynames offered in the character generator as a resource and comparison, and I've copied those below. Since you're saying it's a contributor to Modern Standard Matari it's at least interesting to compare it with the wider pool of Matari placenames (system names) and personal names (agent names) in EVE. Your language and these examples do not appear to come from the same language group. Look at the sounds and letters used in each: your "sh", "q", double vowels, apostrophes (for a glottal stop?), and pattern of ending words with vowels, versus Sebiestor's consonant clusters and pattern of ending words with consonants.

From what I can see in EVE, "Matari" language is a Northern Germanic language akin to Old Norse that's been put through a gentle space warp, and from the name lists it appears that Sebiestor is the Matari language that's most like Old Norse. If you decided to adopt Icelandic-on-a-Latin-keyboard as the basis for Sebiestor I might even go with you on that. But not this.

(By the way, the construction "You I thank" is [object noun][subject noun][verb], not [noun][verb][adjective].)

I just want to step in and point out that you're sounding just a teensy bit judgmental here. 

I'll also add that the English lanuage has roots in everything from proto-Germanic dialects to Old Norse, with a good smattering of loanwords from French, Middle English and Latin, as well as some Chinook jargon and thrown in for good measure.   

Language isn't a static thing, and we've been in New Eden for several million years according to PF, so Northern Regional would have shifted quite a lot from its base with exposure to space-travel and outside cultural influence.

[Morwen Lagann]

Language isn't a static thing, and we've been in New Eden for several million years according to PF, so Northern Regional would have shifted quite a lot from its base with exposure to space-travel and outside cultural influence.

You're off by several orders of magnitude. Try twenty to twenty-five thousand years.

[Astrid Stjerna]

Language isn't a static thing, and we've been in New Eden for several million years according to PF, so Northern Regional would have shifted quite a lot from its base with exposure to space-travel and outside cultural influence.

You're off by several orders of magnitude. Try twenty to twenty-five thousand years.

I stand corrected My point still remains, however - no language will remain unchanged over twenty-five thousand years.

[Aldrith Shutaq]

... That's an awful lot of Ald- names....

Am I really a Sebiestor?!

* Aldrith Shutaq identity crisises.

[Gottii]

... That's an awful lot of Ald- names....

Am I really a Sebiestor?!

* Aldrith Shutaq identity crisises.

I...AM YOUR FATHER!

[Mizhara]

Snipped for postsize reduction.

I just want to step in and point out that you're sounding just a teensy bit judgmental here. 

On this particular subject, Matariki has earned being judgmental whether she is intending to or not. She knows this subject.

I'll also add that the English lanuage has roots in everything from proto-Germanic dialects to Old Norse, with a good smattering of loanwords from French, Middle English and Latin, as well as some Chinook jargon and thrown in for good measure.   

Language isn't a static thing, and we've been in New Eden for several million years according to PF, so Northern Regional would have shifted quite a lot from its base with exposure to space-travel and outside cultural influence.

While I'm still facepalming myself into a concussion from the 'million years' bit, let's focus on the important bit: It's not about whether or not language is static, it's not about whether it's shifted or not. All these things are already taken into account.

It's about whether or not it fits what we already have and know. Everything we see in the game (and outside sources, chrons/whatever) points in certain directions. Names of people, ships, areas, everything. Going in the opposite direction just because 'whatever, I have an OOC hardon for (insert real life language here)' will raise hackles when you implicate other people's characters in it. Make it some seriously obscure dialect from some obscure area, and no one will mind. Make it this huge thing that will implicate -everyone- playing characters hailing from those regions and you're stepping on a lot of toes.

Not cool.

[Kiki Truzhari]

I'm just not going to worry about it. If you don't want to use it, there's nothing saying anyone has to. Like I said before, I'm aware that its really not all that canon compliant. I'll rewrite the description at some point to make it not imply that everyone should speak it.

[Ava Starfire]

I like what Kikia has done and applaud the effort, and some of the corpies have taken to using hello, goodbye, etc, from what she has laid down here. Cools.

There definately seems to be a norse influence in the smatterings of PF we have on the subject, and yes, could have gone that way too. The first thing I ever wrote about Ava, the only "Sebiestor" used in the story was a smattering of norse words.

If it were up to me? Probably a bit Norsier (is that a word??) but if people like what she's made here, hey, run with it. If not, dont. Either way, cool to see the effort.

[Louella Dougans]

might get a bit more traction if there's concepts that don't have a word.

Like, for the Caldari player-made language, that Napaani thing, there were concepts in it, that didn't have a word. Like how to express the whole thing with being a Corporate Citizen and all that stuff. The Caldari culture and so on.

with words to talk about concepts that don't exist, then there might be something.

but different words for "hello", "goodbye", isn't enough to make it go past the "translator says what?" thing.

[Kiki Truzhari]

well that's sort of a process. I'm basically building the language from the ground up, starting with simple, primitive words, for things found in nature, or things that a primitive tribe would understand, and building upwards complexity from there. But some of that is already appearing, this language has three words for different types of love for example. Cultural concepts are one of those things you sort of have to diffuse out of the canon so that it all makes sense. It'll definitely come, but it'll probably not be too visible until the language has evolved further.

[Louella Dougans]

i had a thought, but it vanished.

it was along the lines of cultural concepts. there's already plenty of them to look at, I think.

Word relating to a person's position in a tribe. example: "I am only a (word), it is not my place to say things"

Word meaning something to do with the overall well-being of the tribe. example: "This is a matter of (word)"

Word relating to a tribal laws/morals/justice tribunaly thing. example: "I call for a (word)." "I was summoned to a (word)"

Word relating to an object that has acquired some great significance beyond it's normal purpose, that cannot be described. example: "this thing, this is (word)"

(I am thinking of Proximo in the film Gladiator, he had the rudius, a wooden sword, signifying his freedom, given to him by the Emperor Marcus Aurelius. The symbolic value of that rudis is immense. The phrase, "words cannot describe how important this is to me", is relevant.)