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Author Topic: Mass Effect 3 - SPOILERS INSIDE  (Read 31729 times)

GoGo Yubari

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Re: Mass Effect 3 - SPOILERS INSIDE
« Reply #45 on: 15 Mar 2012, 15:44 »

That is a fair point (but not the most commonly vocalized complaint based on what I've been reading). Then again, I don't think any game I've played has succeeded in giving a truly broad range of endings. At best there is an illusion of difference (ie. ME2). There is one exception to this, though: Dragon Age 1.
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Kaldor Mintat

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Re: Mass Effect 3 - SPOILERS INSIDE
« Reply #46 on: 15 Mar 2012, 16:02 »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=467pmIX-oZo laughing so hard right now :lol:
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Mass Effect 3 - SPOILERS INSIDE
« Reply #47 on: 15 Mar 2012, 18:11 »

lol @ the vid  :lol:

__________________

Also, just omg, they dared...

I just saw Tali's face. @_@

Its uh... well, I think this somehow ruins the mystery and it looks more like some kind of poor fan service than a real bonus to the story...


The anger at the endings isn't that they're dark or anything like that. It's that the "sixteen distinctly different endings" that were promised doesn't exist. It's one single ending with three different colors. There's also the quote that there'd be no A, B or C choose your ending thing, and that was -exactly- what it was. Except it was RGB instead of ABC.

No one minds that there are dark and grim endings, there's just massive disappointment to see that nothing you ever did mattered at all.
Frankly, a franchise such as this deserves better. Deus Ex did this well over a decade ago and did it right. This was just... meh.

In the end, it's simply not up for debate. When you piss off this many people and there's an uproar this big... you done fucked something up.

Bioware narrative technics have always worked like this : insert different choices for the player to use, then create several branches to make him believe that his actions impact on the way the story goes, then make sure said branches all lead to the same ending point. It can also be found at different scales in the story : the smallest, being in several choices in a conversation leading to the final same words, to the biggest, storyline branches that eventually have the same result and only the path that lead there is different. For me this is nothing new.
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Morwen Lagann

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Re: Mass Effect 3 - SPOILERS INSIDE
« Reply #48 on: 15 Mar 2012, 19:53 »

Related to a discussion I had with Kyber earlier today on MSN. (Nicked from Kyoko's twitter feed.)

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Lagging Behind

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GoGo Yubari

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Re: Mass Effect 3 - SPOILERS INSIDE
« Reply #49 on: 15 Mar 2012, 20:22 »

Haha, awesome Twitter convo! :D

Tali's face... where? I mean, she showed it to Shepard, but I didn't see it. Any screenies somewhere?
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GoGo Yubari

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Re: Mass Effect 3 - SPOILERS INSIDE
« Reply #50 on: 15 Mar 2012, 20:42 »

Also, there are now some rumors that the ending of ME3 may be a false-ending, and the real ending will be released as a DLC later on. Of course, whether the signs/hints/leaks that have been spotted are really telling us this or that Bioware is maybe considering a revamp because of the reaction... who knows. It could all be bogus.

But that makes me chuckle. Because that would copying Neon Genesis Evangelion on a very meta level there. That is exactly what happened with it. Fans didn't like the ending and a new movie was produced with a slightly more comprehensible ending (and a cleverly hidden FU to fandom, too). If Bioware go down the same route, it would be too weird.
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Mizhara

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Re: Mass Effect 3 - SPOILERS INSIDE
« Reply #51 on: 15 Mar 2012, 21:41 »

Ye Olde Rumors. The latest (and most likely) word is that this is exactly the ending Bioware envisioned and somehow they just didn't see how much it sucked and how many enormous plotholes it left behind. The thing is, Bioware have no reason to change the ending and no one really wants them to. What tens of thousands of people are asking for are more endings and some sort of closure. Some explanation of what the hell happened would be nice too.

As for Tali's face: If you're a Talimancer, you're given a photo of Tali. Turns out it's a shitty stock photo with barely any photoshopping done at all. For all intents and purposes, she's a three-fingered cliché human who thinks adding glowy eyes in photoshop is a cool thing. Laziest thing ever. Speaking of stock photos, the Stargazer thingy? Those trees and the old guy and kid? Yeah, stock photo. Maybe a little sliding on the hue slider, just like with the 'sixteen distinctly different endings' that turns out to be one ending with three different colors.
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Random Sentience

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Re: Mass Effect 3 - SPOILERS INSIDE
« Reply #52 on: 16 Mar 2012, 00:14 »

My current fear is this: it's ALL a publicity stunt (not totally intentionally, but definitely in the "we need a controversial story/ending" sense, which really cheapens the overall experience). Bioware wanted this game to go down in history. I just hope Bioware doesn't go down in flames.

:|
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Vikarion

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Re: Mass Effect 3 - SPOILERS INSIDE
« Reply #53 on: 16 Mar 2012, 01:50 »

My current fear is this: it's ALL a publicity stunt (not totally intentionally, but definitely in the "we need a controversial story/ending" sense, which really cheapens the overall experience). Bioware wanted this game to go down in history. I just hope Bioware doesn't go down in flames.

:|

Right now I'm roughly of the opinion that, if they do, I'll happily volunteer to be the one who makes sure that they fall into an inflatable kiddie pool full of high-octane gasoline.

I've played through Mass Effect at least three times, Mass Effect 2 at least twice, and since I tend to be obsessive about completing every last possible thing, each play-through probably took around 50 hours, if not more. I enjoyed the series that much. I anticipated playing through the complete series another 2 or 3 times once I finished Mass Effect 3.

After the ending of ME 3, however, I haven't been able to motivate myself to even try one of the other endings (I chose synthesis when I had the opportunity). It's that bad.

It's not bad because Shephard almost always dies. It's not bad because no choice is perfect. The problem is that, even if you try to fanfic in some sort of indoctrination, the ending makes no sense whatsoever, and it is an ending that conforms to an extremely low standard of quality.

Consider the indoctrination theory - which is that Shephard was indoctrinated by the Reapers, and that everything from getting hit by the beam onwards is some sort of psychic dream attack. This might be plausible, except for the fact that we know that indoctrination takes longer than that. Heck, Cerberus researchers running around inside of a Reaper managed to stay sane for probably a couple of weeks in ME 2. In the Arrival DLC, humans exposed to Reaper tech managed to resist control long enough to create an asteroid rocket of doom. Shepard hasn't been spending any concentrated amount of time around Reapers except when he is actively killing them, a situation that does not lend itself to indoctrination. Moreover, when someone is indoctrinated, they lose their free will and independent thought, which there is no evidence of Shepard doing whatsoever.

But let us suppose he is anyway. What then? Is he just sitting on the ground in front of the transport beam, adventuring in la-la land? If so, then why does Harbinger bother to offer him a choice at all? Why not, you know, just zap him again? Obviously, if Shepard is truly not on the Citadel, then there's no particular reason for Harbinger or any other Reaper to interact with Shepard besides killing him. After all, what is Shepard going to do from the ground? Think nasty thoughts at the Reapers? But if Shepard is on the Citadel, then the indoctrination theory is pretty much kaput. Incidentally, there are cement analogues on the citadel, remember ME 1's ending? So arguing that the scene of Shepard waking up must be on Earth due to the surrounding rubble is not entirely convincing.

But the rest of the ending doesn't make sense either. I took Garrus into the final battle with me, and I had a distinct feeling of "what the fuckity-fuck?!?" when Garrus stepped down off the Normandy. Which shouldn't have been in transit between gates, shouldn't have had any of my team on it (they were on the ground five minutes earlier!), and...why does synthesis make the gates explode, again? As well as the destroy option? And the control option? Does beaming an information pulse or a space magic beam really make gates explode in solar-system-annihilating fury?

Apparently.

And if Shepard was indoctrinated, why do I get the Normandy running at all, or the Reapers exploding? Is Harbinger simulating that, too? What would be the point of that? Indoctrinated or not, what happens to Tali, Liara, Garrus, EDI, or my other contacts/friends/allies? For that matter, if the whole Citadel thing is a hallucination, why do I end up confronting the Illusive man, how is it possible for him to kill me, and why am I with Anderson?

This whole thing reeks of Bioware either conducting a massive troll, developing sudden and extreme incompetence, or deciding that we really need a DLC ending or a Mass Effect 4. It's so good as a troll that if it were so, I'd almost admire - no, fuck it, I would admire it - except for the fact that I paid sixty fucking dollars for this game and I want my money back. And I want the money I paid for Mass Effect 2 back, because Bioware has stained that, too.

I could and can take sad endings, or even not-fully-explained endings, and certainly I love happy endings and endings where my choices matter, as in Fallout 1,2,3, and New Vegas. What I really find to be a complete butt-munch is when someone promises me endings completely different from each other that depend on my choices over three games, and then gives me an ending where I get red, blue, and green, none of which have any relation to choices I've made save whether I completed enough side missions...and then, on top of that, can't even manage to make those endings consistent with in-game lore or the events that occurred inside the game five minutes previously.

Now, this may seem like a lot of raging over a video game, but I would have spent that money on something else if I hadn't spent it on ME 1, 2, and 3, and I spent that money with the implicit assumption that Bioware would make a dedicated effort to avoid being incompetent or evil in their treatment of players. Worse, I've probably spent at least twenty hours playing ME 3 alone, which I could have spent working or playing Eve, or whatnot. If a supplier were to provide me with a chemical that cost me twenty hours of extra work and sixty dollars, you can bet I'd be complaining, and I don't think it's unreasonable to question the ethics of charging customers as much as Bioware does for a game that doesn't fulfill the claims made for it. Even if you like the options at the end of Mass Effect 3, the ending does not live up to the promises made pre-purchase, and it is objectively bad when considered from a standpoint of consistency, plot-coherency, and comprehensibility.

There. I'm done.  :P

« Last Edit: 16 Mar 2012, 01:55 by Vikarion »
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Caellach Marellus

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Re: Mass Effect 3 - SPOILERS INSIDE
« Reply #54 on: 16 Mar 2012, 08:57 »

I strongly believe this was never the intended ending.

You do not make three games of brilliant lore and story and then murder it with 5 minutes of plotholes in a non satisfying Deus Ex Machina. It's illogical to the point of inconceivable and there is no way in hell Bioware could drop the ball on the one thing they're constantly praised for, writing.

Anyway, Bioware has a Panel at PAX on April 6th. I think we'll get answers there.
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Morwen Lagann

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Re: Mass Effect 3 - SPOILERS INSIDE
« Reply #55 on: 16 Mar 2012, 10:40 »

Vik: it's stated in a couple places over the course of the game that the speed and power of indoctrination can vary based on the intent. I think it's safe to assume that the Cerberus researchers at Mnemosyne (Reaper IFF) and the Alliance people in Bahak (Arrival) would have fallen under the category of passive indoctrination - the former due to it being a more or less wrecked and dead Reaper shell, and the latter due to it being, well, an artifact, not an actual Reaper.

That said, Object Rho did manage to put out enough power to knock Shepard out after a few minutes of fighting in the same room as it. So as far as the Indoctrination Theory goes, it's not *too* unreasonable that there's the possibility of "burst" indoctrination that can have a semi-immediate effect.

It obviously doesn't excuse the (lacking) quality of the end, nor does it explain a damn thing after Deus Effect: Mass Revolution or whatever we're going to refer to The Choice as, but the Indoctrination/Hallucination theories are one of only a few things that have any remote chance of "explaining" the result of the "destroy" ending in a way that resembles *any* kind of sense.
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3) The lack of suitable male partners can be summed up in most cases thusly: interested, worth the air they breathe, available; pick two.

Esna Pitoojee

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Re: Mass Effect 3 - SPOILERS INSIDE
« Reply #56 on: 16 Mar 2012, 11:43 »

Selected tweets from Bioware, yoinked from the Bioware forums:

Quote
User 3: "I kinda feel lost after that ending...not what I expected and left me feeling everything done was for nothing."
@masseffect: "We know it's a lot to take in! But hang in there. Your decisions matter."

User 5: "I loved 98% of ME3..but something has to be up w/ ending..too much talent at BW for that business. Keep my saves?"
@masseffect: "We're keeping our saves, that's for sure."

User 8: "Do y'all have any ETA when more news will be released? Dying for news on a new ending/DLC."
@masseffect: "No ETA yet, but you will be updated via Facebook and Twitter when the news is available :)."


I can't read that in any way but that this is not a true ending.

Additionally, there was a theory floating around that the reason they did this is so that the actual ending wouldn't be spoiled by the varying region release dates of the game.



...and if this is the true ending? I'll be off imbibing liquor through my emergency induction port.
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Mizhara

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Re: Mass Effect 3 - SPOILERS INSIDE
« Reply #57 on: 16 Mar 2012, 12:02 »

They've confirmed this was the intended and 'true' ending through other means. Drew Karpashyn (who is no longer part of ME's crew) have spoken of how the endings are pretty much how he saw them and other known douchebottles have said the same. Particularly that Casey Hudson (was that his name? It feels wrong, somehow) fellow who pretty much forced these endings through according to the "Final Hour" documentary app on the iOS store thingy.

I have no faith in these endings somehow being tricks and the tweets and so on are probably damage control and nonsensical placating that'll in the end turn out to be about multiplayer DLC packages or whatever. If Bioware adds to the endings, it'll be because of the massive outrage, not because it was planned somehow.
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Esna Pitoojee

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Re: Mass Effect 3 - SPOILERS INSIDE
« Reply #58 on: 16 Mar 2012, 12:19 »

....bleh.
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I like the implications of Gallentians being punched in the face by walking up to a Minmatar as they so freely use another person's culture as a fad.

Seriphyn

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Re: Mass Effect 3 - SPOILERS INSIDE
« Reply #59 on: 16 Mar 2012, 13:02 »

I felt that5 years of game lore being cast aside for the ending sort of...fits, IMO. Exact type of species, culture, politics, government, religion, society is all inconsequential considering the scale of what is taking place. This is about organic life and synthetic life; it all boils down to that. The ending being so disconnected and making everything else trivial sort of fits...

What do people prefer, anyway? A sort of voiceover about what happened after? Earth rebuilding, Thessia rebuilding, Rannoch rebuilding...seems a bit cliched IMO. "And they all lived happily ever after?"

I picked Destroy the Reapers. Didn't wipe out the guys on earth, the marines were cheering (there are some variations of that ending where they don't cheer, or if you suck really badly, they die). What I want to know is if the mass relay explosion destroys the solar systems/clusters it is in, as per Arrival?

Also, the bitching I've seen elsewhere about having to do multiplayer is silly. I got a full bar halfway through the game at 60% readiness.
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