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[Seriphyn]

Stumbled across this here, currently has the most votes...

I can't help it, but the Caldari are my favourites. The Amarr are just a bunch of quasi-medival theocratic ultra-conservatives, the Minmatar are a bunch  of hippie losers, and the Gallente are the typical Starbucks-drinking iCrap-using holier-than-thou shmucks. The Caldari however remind me of a good old Heinlein novel such as Starship Troopers, of the Starcraft Terrans, or of the Alien films. THIS is the kind of science fiction I love!

Well, never mind the fact that the Caldari are nothing like the Starcraft Terrans or the Alien films (not moreso than any other faction), this is a major issue with the Gallente faction. Did someone assume that the existence of a President, Senate and Supreme Court make it synonymous with a joke version of RL America? Did someone forget that this is the future, and that the Federation is a major power that didn't get to where it was via coffee or electronic products (well, not exclusively)? Did someone forget to mention the Black Eagles, the artificial intelligence, automation and advanced terraforming technology? This isn't a question of player perception, but how CCP portray the factions themselves.

When you create a Gallente character, you're greeted with remarkably pacifist ancestries. While the Amarrians have cyberknights and navy veterans, the Caldari have mercs and tube childs, the Gallente have activists, miners, and artists. Moreover, one of the biggest problems are the missions.

Caldari storyline missions have you carrying out tasks related to Arctic Warfare Marines, Caldari Navy Special Forces, and military activities that relate to the Gallente crawling up their ass. Meanwhile, Gallente storyline missions have you take champagne to a party, send some fitness guru's holos to some station, transport some fashion designers and so on. The epic arc is worse. The Caldari epic arc has you running missions for the megacorporations, dealing with corporate warfare and politics, as well as the current war with the Federation. The Gallente epic arc? All about rescuing Justin Beiber from child labour camps.

Alright, so you don't play the Gallente to play some militaristic character. The problem is that (and this might relate to visualization in general), is that the Gallente's portrayal does not sufficiently utilize the sci-fi setting. If science and artificial intelligence is put at the center of the Federation's being, as it is in fiction, we might see some more interest. They've got robots flying their ships, planetary environments emulated in stations, and massive crystalline cities. But right now, they are the buttend of jokes regarding pornography and transparent clothing.

Hell, this is one reason I continue to RP the Fed angle and lead EL-G, to continue to battle these stereotypes and show that the Federation is worth playing. Alternatively, someone suggested to me that Fed RP atm is very military-orientated, something that is not to the liking of everyone (or, they'd rather play a more militaristic faction if they wanted that angle, ie. Caldari).

Anyway, did anyone mention the Federation has a military strength that rivals the Amarrians, or their technology often equals/exceeds the Caldari? (hell, you don't see the Caldari with automated vessels do you? And they certainly aren't engaging in an arms race for no reason...). Anyone? Guess not...

Thoughts?

[Victoria Stecker]

Indeed, because those characterizations of the Amarrians and Minmatar are spot-on as well. As you pointed out, they're probably wrong about the Caldari too. Could it just be that they don't really know anything, while some of us have spent hours and weeks and years learning about the nuances of each culture?

[Raze Valadeus]

It sounds more like an opinion of one player, followed by a bit of a rant.

So that's how this player (and perhaps others) sees each faction, we all have various perspectives and differences of opinion. You keep doing what you have fun doing.

[Seriphyn]

Well, fine, never mind bringing up a topic that's been discussed for a lot of EVE RP's existence with some new points about CCP's portrayal.

[Raze Valadeus]

I apologize Seriphyn, I didn't mean to sound dismissive of your viewpoint.

I'm not sure where the problem is, I guess. The player doesn't seem to have a high opinion of anything but the Caldari simply because they seem to fit what he views as "science fiction."

[Katrina Oniseki]

Stumbled across this here, currently has the most votes...

I can't help it, but the Caldari are my favourites. The Amarr are just a bunch of quasi-medival theocratic ultra-conservatives, the Minmatar are a bunch  of hippie losers, and the Gallente are the typical Starbucks-drinking iCrap-using holier-than-thou shmucks. The Caldari however remind me of a good old Heinlein novel such as Starship Troopers, of the Starcraft Terrans, or of the Alien films. THIS is the kind of science fiction I love!

Well, never mind the fact that the Caldari are nothing like the Starcraft Terrans or the Alien films (not moreso than any other faction), this is a major issue with the Gallente faction. Did someone assume that the existence of a President, Senate and Supreme Court make it synonymous with a joke version of RL America? Did someone forget that this is the future, and that the Federation is a major power that didn't get to where it was via coffee or electronic products (well, not exclusively)? Did someone forget to mention the Black Eagles, the artificial intelligence, automation and advanced terraforming technology? This isn't a question of player perception, but how CCP portray the factions themselves.

When you create a Gallente character, you're greeted with remarkably pacifist ancestries. While the Amarrians have cyberknights and navy veterans, the Caldari have mercs and tube childs, the Gallente have activists, miners, and artists. Moreover, one of the biggest problems are the missions.

Caldari storyline missions have you carrying out tasks related to Arctic Warfare Marines, Caldari Navy Special Forces, and military activities that relate to the Gallente crawling up their ass. Meanwhile, Gallente storyline missions have you take champagne to a party, send some fitness guru's holos to some station, transport some fashion designers and so on. The epic arc is worse. The Caldari epic arc has you running missions for the megacorporations, dealing with corporate warfare and politics, as well as the current war with the Federation. The Gallente epic arc? All about rescuing Justin Beiber from child labour camps.

Alright, so you don't play the Gallente to play some militaristic character. The problem is that (and this might relate to visualization in general), is that the Gallente's portrayal does not sufficiently utilize the sci-fi setting. If science and artificial intelligence is put at the center of the Federation's being, as it is in fiction, we might see some more interest. They've got robots flying their ships, planetary environments emulated in stations, and massive crystalline cities. But right now, they are the buttend of jokes regarding pornography and transparent clothing.

Hell, this is one reason I continue to RP the Fed angle and lead EL-G, to continue to battle these stereotypes and show that the Federation is worth playing. Alternatively, someone suggested to me that Fed RP atm is very military-orientated, something that is not to the liking of everyone (or, they'd rather play a more militaristic faction if they wanted that angle, ie. Caldari).

Anyway, did anyone mention the Federation has a military strength that rivals the Amarrians, or their technology often equals/exceeds the Caldari? (hell, you don't see the Caldari with automated vessels do you? And they certainly aren't engaging in an arms race for no reason...). Anyone? Guess not...

Thoughts?

Despite my intial disgust for another jab at America, I'll bite.

I agree, actually, that the Gallente are portrayed in too soft a light most of the time internally with their missions and such .I think more cultural infiltration could be included, like protecting a 'free speech' transmission tower as it broadcasts into Caldari space, or something.

As for the technology, me and Seri discussed this the other day on Steam, and he's exactly right. The State and Federation do not have a huge difference in technological prowess (like the Amarr and Minmatar do), but rather they have a huge difference in application. The Caldari tend to pack as much innovation and advancement into a single powerful device (like a fighter), where the Gallente tend to spread their technology out into multiple cheaper devices that produce the same effect (drones).

It's a fundemental difference in how the two races act. The Caldari are highly militaristic with an emphasis on martial honor, so placing a pilot inside a nastily armed-to-the-teeth fighter makes sense. They had the technological ability to make those expensive machines of war effective on the field.

The Gallente instead abhorred putting a pilot in danger when unnecessary, so they built swarms of drones. Generally speaking, they are cheaper, but just as effective when used en-masse. Mass produced and cheaply made high-technology, vs, expensive and concentrated devices of that same level of technology.

[Alain Colcer]

le sigh

.......this is one of the reasons i think there needs to be a better way to give inmersion to a new player, or how the universe "unfolds" in your screen.

The small description, and intro videos for each race were an incredibly good addition, however they focus on the nation. I would prefer if the process of "being inmersed" into eve was followed also with the intro tutorials and/or careers agents, not only providing you the info to get started in eve, but directly telling lore about the faction you chose to begin with, so yu could relate on a personal level.

So yeah Caldari are capitalists and the missions depict their intricate social strata, power struggles and personal commitment to suceed. Both good and bad.

Gallente are depicted as hedonists, sure, but also strong cultural dominance, democratic process, diversity. And their darker sides such as drugs, and media manipulation.

Minmatar show their ingenuity, their tribal customs, tattoos and zealotness for protecting their freedom and rescuing their brothers, but also tell the power struggles between the tribal leaders, or their terrorist groups.

Amarr, guided by their faith, magnificent temples, loyalty to the empress/emperor and rich heritage. But also their brutality toward slaves, or the power struggles of the noble houses and holders.

Ancestry should also be reviewed completely, should be more like mass effect (colonist, or earth-born, etc).

So you have Gallente/intaki/Jin-mei who were born in their homeworld (therefore stronger cultural identity) or as a colonist elsewhere, something similar for the other factions.


The Eve universe was initially  created with this very rich and very broad stroke of genius, but the problem is how it is reflected onto it. Most of us have read and re-read countless times the chronicles in order to find the gold-nuggets and use it to enhance and support our RP...but thats a drag for any new player who wishes to enter the game.

And don't mention that internal "project" to distill every PF little info, this has nothing to do with it....this is about giving the player the whole experience of the game and "hook him/her up" from the get go.

[Desiderya]

Before I digress I'll start with a digression!
I would disagree that drones are the cheaper way, tbh. We're not talking about replacing assembly line workers with automatons.

So, now to the gallente topic.
The opinion of one player isn't a really good basis for a rant ( I mean no offense by using that word ) like this.
The descriptions available in said character creations are no way leading to conclusions like your quoted player. Probably an influenced opinion?

Alright, so you don't play the Gallente to play some militaristic character. The problem is that (and this might relate to visualization in general), is that the Gallente's portrayal does not sufficiently utilize the sci-fi setting. If science and artificial intelligence is put at the center of the Federation's being, as it is in fiction, we might see some more interest. They've got robots flying their ships, planetary environments emulated in stations, and massive crystalline cities. But right now, they are the buttend of jokes regarding pornography and transparent clothing.

I actually never had that problem. It was pretty clear from all chronicles etc that I've read that the federation is a haven of science, trade and progress. The reason why they are this buttend is twofold: You can't deny that the Federation allows the most hedonistic lifestyle, therefore the wonders of gallantean pleasure hubs are appreciated throughout New Eden, so to say.
The players joke, it's simple as that. Nothing that CCP can do will change that. If this would be another game world we would talk about dwarves always being drunk, unclean and roaring fighters while possessing a fake scottish accent.
Only thing you can do is play your thing, explain when someone is incorrect (and willing to listen) and ignore those that, well, are just bad players.

[Ember Vykos]

The Gallente epic arc? All about rescuing Justin Beiber from child labour camps.

That made me 

When you create a Gallente character, you're greeted with remarkably pacifist ancestries.

I dont think activists are pascifist by default. It depends more on how the player chooses to portray their characters past in that regard. Miners probably aren't very passive either I doubt they would be openly violent for no reason, but have you ever seen a bar fight in a coal mining town? They aren't pretty.

Meanwhile, Gallente storyline missions have you take champagne to a party, send some fitness guru's holos to some station, transport some fashion designers and so on

I can't remember the storyline missions I ran when I was doing them for FedNavy, but most of them were combat oriented. Sure there was the occasional transport this useless thing to this stupid place, but I think that has more to do with game mechanics and the closest storyline agent for your faction than it does anything else.

The Gallente are portrayed as hedonistic because it fits. That doesn't mean they dont have their militaristic types. I think its just not as big a deal for them. They are a consumer culture, and as such most of its citizens are probably more interested in gossip and entertainment. It's easy to call them a joke version of RL America because, as much as I hate to admit it, it does kind of fit, but if you are going to do that dont just concentrate on the negative stereotypes. If you want to use similarities between the Fed and RL America there are plenty of positive ones you could use as well, and you might have more luck with that.

[Kaleigh Doyle]

I think one could just as easily make the argument that the Gallente, in their display of culture non-centric to war and military conquest provides some context into the nature of the civilization to begin with. The Gallente don't need to spread by the sword, they do so in times of peace and through trade, which is how they became the dominant culture through the last era of peace before everything went to shit. The fact that Federation citizens have something to live for other than THE STATE and GOD means the message is more subtle but no less powerful than any of the other civilizations.

The biggest fear to Federation citizens from foreign powers is the threat of losing freedom and opportunities for self-actualization. The problem is, that regardless of who wins said war, capsule pilots will always retain their freedom, so they really lack perspective to really empathize with the idea that 'every citizen must do their part to ensure their culture thrives'. You're never (or rarely) going to see Federation citizens (and their capsuleers) convert peacefully to an Amarrian, Minmatar, or Caldari culture, but they all have to worry about their people being converted by all the draw and appeal that the Feds have to offer. Quafe, despite capsuleer disdain, is just as potent a weapon as Arctic Warfare Marines or space-nazis in its influence on people.

In my eyes, the Gallente Feds are never going to have as many fanatical blowhards in its ranks, and I think this is a good thing.

[Casiella]

It bears repeating: deciding that an in-game faction is a spaec version of something IRL, then complaining about the negative aspects you read into it yourself is a problem on the player end. The devs can't fix your assumptions. It's worth looking with a wider lens to see where you may have gone too far in taking those assumptions and treating them as conclusions supported by data.

[Alain Colcer]

deciding that an in-game faction is a spaec version of something IRL

Such things happen when there is little to no actual reading material that can you point in the other direction. I agree it IS a player problem, but it is only a natural reaction for the void of information and people's imagination trying to fill it.

[Casiella]

Maybe we would like more, but the OP and others have already collected quite a lot of information on the Fed. We have a consumerist culture, republican government, lots of activism in the population, etc., plus more specific data. While the parallels to the US are obvious, the US has a lot more going on as well. I don't think we've seen a huge puritanical streak in the Fed, and certainly not fundamentalist religion playing a significant role in the body politic. The Gallente don't have a history with outright slavery as far as I know, and they've made much more effort to integrate populations as they expanded than the US (which isn't to say that those integrated people's are particularly happy about it).

I see daily parallels with the Amarrian Empire and certain aspects of the US, but only to an extent.

I share the desire for more material, but that's a far cry from making unwarranted leaps of logic and then griping at CCP about the conclusions I might have drawn and finding them simplistic. The simplistic conclusions didn't come from them.

[Myyona]

Though a true notion about the Gallente epic arc, it is also the one that invokes most emotions in me every time I get a chance to do. I have done all the epic arcs quite thoroughly, as my guides will show.

There is something in deep in me getting disturbed when reading about children being sold as laborer or into prostitution. And the story writers have gone a great effort to display just how scrupulous and amoral the Gallenteans can be on their dark side. The ex-smuggler cares only about getting payback for her own simple interests and does not even have a hint of a care for the thousands of miserable children she has been moving around. The FIO agent is even worse. She is xenophobic on a level greater than Heths and uses any opportunity given to massacre those so poor they cannot fight back. I found I have to take the low sec path of the arc to not get too disturbed.

On the other hand, the Gallente epic arc is also the one that feels most “real” of them all. The reason why it makes me upset is because I can easier connect with the story here than in the other arcs. Discovering the truth about the Starkmanir rebellion was interesting but not really character defining. Neither was assisting with the disputes between the Caldari mega corporations.  These arcs never touched me much and made me feel connected to the universe of EVE. A connection I can use to expand my character.