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[Invelious]

I'd personally love to see more PIE and KPV activity. Some good and proper Amarr/Khanid RP is fun to watch. All this non-Amarrian stuff proclaiming to be the 'twue' Amarr ways gets old and boring to interact with after a while. PIE needs to step up the activity, I think. Show New Eden how to do it Amarrian Style, as it were.

I have to say I agree OoC with many of the concerns raised here... KotMC isn't an Amarrian corp anymore, from what I can tell.

KPV did not survive Atlas's betrayal and Silas' departure.  However, I'd like to see more from PIE as well, just something against the Minmatar would be nice.  So far from all of it's transgressions, KotMC hasn't caused any sort problems for the Empire or war effort, and is still a very staunch supporter of combat actions in the militia warzone.

I can't speak for any of the other non-traditionalist Amarrian corps, but I can say that KotMC has never claimed to be the 'twue' or even 'true' Amarrian way.

Speaking of subjects getting old, though, I would definately like to see some more variety from the Minmatar side.  As a lifelong Amarrian-loyalist RPer, I can't count how many times I've seen the same names and arguements being thrown at us about slavery.  I've seen variety from the Amarrian side, with mentions of the Elder invaision, the Voluval marks creating outcasts and Pariahs, the way Shakor is leading the Republic.  But it seems that all I hear from the Minmatar end is 'Death to Slavers!'  I understand that it's a big and dear issue to the Minmatar, but even those on that side have to be tired of playing the same record over and over.

I would love, absolutely love, to see a pro matari group that doesnt give a shit about the Amarrian slaves. Anything else, like, the slaves are finished, theres no saving them, most of them could care less about the Republic. Hate the gallante for once, everyone knows the Republic is their bitch. Free yourselves from the shadow of corrupt democracy, shoot those bastards 

p.s. I have no issues being shot at nor do I shy away from Matari aggression, in fact I embrace it. I personally feel that trying to fight the slavery in Amarr and freeing slaves is rather pointless. To put it in perspective, trying spot Amarrian slavery is like trying  to stop the fast food industry from the whole sale slaughtering cows and chickens for burgers. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. 

That is all.

[Lyn Farel]

If KotMC is not wholly amarrian, it sounds quite logical. When you are liberal and starting to trade/speak/whatever with other cultures as all liberals should do, it is only logical that you start to lose a little of your core cultural identity. Pointing out that in the case of KotMC is quite beyond me, it is like stating the obvious.

Well then, may I ask which actions of KotMC are you speaking of ? Feed us examples and why you think it is wrong or not amarrish. We can still work to fix what can be wrong.

Before though, Lyn is exempted because she is indeed not very amarrish, nor ammatarish.

I count amongst those actions not benefitting conservative amarrians to be: Piracy against random neutrals, fraternisation with heathens / the enemy, happily inviting sansha's to your events and, of course, . the sheltering of apostates such as Lyn Farel, who is happy to dismiss the scriptures.

Then again though, Lyn, I don't really see why I should bother at all to explain this to you, or anyone else, since this has been brought up constantly to your leadership. KOTMC has gone to great lengths to put themselves into the corner they stand in right now and I do not see that change at all in the future.

For the piracy and the link you provided, it is the first time I see it, and be sure I am going to ask to the leadership what this means. Note that I do not care if sometimes someones slips, it can be interesting ICly, though if it were to be done repeatedly KotMC policy would be to expel him as far as I know. I don't know if PIE expel such cases at the first mistake, but I can assure you that KotMC does it at least on the next act of piracy.

Fraternisation with Heathens, heh, we are liberals. Liberals are not orthodox and even less conservatives. Be them Amarrian or not. And with the enemy ? I do not see any enemy, unless you are speaking about EM and this case is quite contentious. As much as their actions are borderline when they help the TLF to take down amarrian POS in Huola (what the fuck are those POSes doing here anyway ? Never had any answer), they mostly remain in the Republic and have always been more or less midularites (their leadership at least, and Elsebeth), though some of their members are more shakorites. In any case, it is not because they are YOUR enemy and mutual war targets that they also should be OURS. Though we still have them in red.

Well, inviting Sansha or other enemies in the Keep is an old issue with you. You still stuck with that ? I thought we explained quite plenly why it was not so weird and I think our justifications are more or less solid. If you are not pleased with them, fine, I am not asking PIE to follow KotMC policies. Please be of the same respect when it comes to us, even if you think we are doing it wrong. We don't, and we think to be in tune with the PF. 

As I said for Lyn, she is not very amarrish. Though even if she is sometimes very borderline, something that I am totally aware of and what actually pleases me in that roleplay, again, I think she is in total concordance with the Scriptures, actually. Saying that she dismisses the Scriptures is a blatant lie, as she considers them to be a central point in her beliefs. I am starting to think that you are confusing IC and OOC borders. While I can totally understand and expect Laerise to think as such, you have no right to think that the appreciation of the situation of your character is the only one worth of consideration.

And yes, this has been brought to the leadership, and why the answers have at first been negative, then mostly "deaf", this is because we are starting to ignore that kind of constant unilateral bickering. PIE was not able to make its point ICly ? Fine, but please don't come to enforce it OOC-ly with dubious arguments.

The fact though that you are aparently excluding yourself from "PIE and various other Amarr loyalist corps" does shed an interresting light on this.

Of course, we are liberal, not a carbon copy of PIE Inc. If you already consider yourself liberal, well, I am not the one that will tell you if it is right or wrong, even if I consider myself that to be wrong, so again, please do not state that we are doing it wrong by considering ourselves as liberal amarrian loyalists.

While you are at it, go tell to other liberal scattered amarrian characters that are not in KotMC that they are not amarrian loyalists. Because this is basically what you are doing.

In the end I am asking you Laerise, what are you looking for, when besides that you state that you take pleasure of OOC driven RP conflicts ? What are you looking for ? 

[Mizhara]

I would love, absolutely love, to see a pro matari group that doesnt give a shit about the Amarrian slaves. Anything else, like, the slaves are finished, theres no saving them, most of them could care less about the Republic. Hate the gallante for once, everyone knows the Republic is their bitch. Free yourselves from the shadow of corrupt democracy, shoot those bastards 

Well, there's an easy way of getting rid of it. Free them or kill them all. Make the root of the issue go away. I'd find it utterly unlikely that the Matari would drop the issue when a full third of their people are enslaved. It's kind of a massive issue to deal with. If the problem vanishes, it'd free up a lot of effort towards other things. Personally, I have been playing Miz as anti-Gallente and hatin' on them quite a bit, while trying to reach out to the State instead. It's not easy to pull off though, as it's even further alienating Miz from the Matari RP crowd. (Which, funnily enough, being Anti-Slaver does too... most Matari RPers get all :frownfaes: when there's talk of dealing with the slave problem).

p.s. I have no issues being shot at nor do I shy away from Matari aggression, in fact I embrace it. I personally feel that trying to fight the slavery in Amarr and freeing slaves is rather pointless. To put it in perspective, trying spot Amarrian slavery is like trying  to stop the fast food industry from the whole sale slaughtering cows and chickens for burgers. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. 

That is all.

Well, from the other side of things, it's rather pointless to try and make it stop without removing the cause for the problem/aggression. Trying to make the entire problem cease to exist by ignoring it won't ever happen, and a full third of a people held as slaves? Not going to stop being a problem while it is so. If the RP is to change, the situation needs to change.

[Graelyn]

So what if KOTMC isn't a textbook Amarr corp?

The more aspects and varieties the better!

Now, I might wardec them someday over it...

But that doesn't mean it's bad!

Invelious: I would love, absolutely love, to see a pro matari group that doesnt give a shit about the Amarrian slaves. Anything else, like, the slaves are finished, theres no saving them, most of them could care less about the Republic. Hate the gallante for once, everyone knows the Republic is their bitch. Free yourselves from the shadow of corrupt democracy, shoot those bastards. 

Right on, brother.

[Lyn Farel]

Yes, I would love to see more variety in roleplay in either Matari RP and either Amarr RP.

Well, there's an easy way of getting rid of it. Free them or kill them all. Make the root of the issue go away.

This is IC, and only YOUR point of view.

I'd find it utterly unlikely that the Matari would drop the issue when a full third of their people are enslaved.

Definitly. Though it does not mean that EVERY matari cares, because it is highly unprobable.

[Raze Valadeus]

Slavery is, and will remain, a HUGE topic for the Matari.

While we, as players, may realize that trying to end slavery in the Empire is near futile, you have to realize that the Republic's very existence is because of slavery. If there was no slavery, the Matari people would never have united for rebellion, the Republic would never have been formed, they would still be scattered tribes. (Now they have this really unique mix of tribes WITHIN a Republic, which is kind of neat if you ask me.)

But it's simple, as long as slavery exists, then the Republic will be against it and it will remain a frontline issue. Conversely, one could argue that the Republic secretly doesn't want slavery to come to an end because then it would have very little reason to continue its existence. The issue of slavery is currently uniting the otherwise sectioned Matari people.

It will remain a big issue for them because it HAS to.

*Disclaimer: The notion of the Republic not wanting slavery to end is simply a roleplay twist, it is not based on any PF or anything else that I know of. Just a simple conspiracy theory that can be used in character to help fuel some RP and what not.

[Jhaelee deAuvrie]

To weigh in on part of this issue, the http://www.amarr-empire.net/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=219056 killmail and its pair http://www.amarr-empire.net/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=219057 from the Amarr FW killboard that is being referenced here by Laerise as “piracy against random neutrals” is not the case.  These neutrals worked together in an attempt to bait and hit the small fleet involved and were overmatched when they with what they aggressed.

As people that fly in the lowsec FW zone are often confronted with, any and all “neutral” pilots down there are likely looking for easy kills.  If it is not the normal faces that want to throw in for RP reasons but do not want to play the FW game because the mechanics suck (EM being the most present), it is self stated pirates hostilely rolling around (BANE, SILENT., NC., shadowvoles.net, Dragoon Fed, Dragoons., the list goes on).  This the is added to by other random hostile faces (a trio of random TEST gang BBs and the likes) and random upstarts coming into lowsec to blow off some steam.  Generally, only the new and uninformed come into lowsec not either expecting or looking for a fight.

Basing a weighted accusation of piracy against someone based on an anonymous and directly vulgar troll comment on a killmail seems to be a bit hasty.  At the very least this part of the above concerns really should be set aside.

[Laerise [PIE]]

Slavery is, and will remain, a HUGE topic for the Matari.

While we, as players, may realize that trying to end slavery in the Empire is near futile, you have to realize that the Republic's very existence is because of slavery. If there was no slavery, the Matari people would never have united for rebellion, the Republic would never have been formed, they would still be scattered tribes. (Now they have this really unique mix of tribes WITHIN a Republic, which is kind of neat if you ask me.)

But it's simple, as long as slavery exists, then the Republic will be against it and it will remain a frontline issue. Conversely, one could argue that the Republic secretly doesn't want slavery to come to an end because then it would have very little reason to continue its existence. The issue of slavery is currently uniting the otherwise sectioned Matari people.

It will remain a big issue for them because it HAS to.

*Disclaimer: The notion of the Republic not wanting slavery to end is simply a roleplay twist, it is not based on any PF or anything else that I know of. Just a simple conspiracy theory that can be used in character to help fuel some RP and what not.

It'd be cool if we could split this off into a second topic, because it doesn't relate well with the OP.

And, yep, I pretty much agree. On the other hand, and seeing how long closely connected the republic is with the federation, I could also imagine that "the press" will have found other hot-button issues by now, second class citizenship in the federation being amongst those issues.

[Mizhara]

Well, there's an easy way of getting rid of it. Free them or kill them all. Make the root of the issue go away.

This is IC, and only YOUR point of view.

Actually, it's OoC. IC, saying 'kill them all' would probably be the exact opposite of anything Miz'd do. As for 'my point of view', of course it is. I'm not very good at telepathy or other means of finding, then voicing other people's point of view within my own forum posts. It'd be rather silly.

I'd find it utterly unlikely that the Matari would drop the issue when a full third of their people are enslaved.

Definitly. Though it does not mean that EVERY matari cares, because it is highly unprobable.

Of course not. I'm just saying that the desire to have slavery dropped as an issue is just completely impossible. That there'd be outliers on any curve is a given. What I am concerned about is how the outliers are seriously outnumbering the most likely kind of people out there. Everyone is 'special' and there's almost none left retaining some of the most likely views and philosophies.

[Victoria Stecker]

Of course not. I'm just saying that the desire to have slavery dropped as an issue is just completely impossible. That there'd be outliers on any curve is a given. What I am concerned about is how the outliers are seriously outnumbering the most likely kind of people out there. Everyone is 'special' and there's almost none left retaining some of the most likely views and philosophies.

True, but we're dealing with the reality of a game - we play to have fun. While I certainly applaud the people that have been stalwarts in the tireless slavery debate, the very fact that it's so unchanging and so ubiquitous means that for some people, it simply won't be any fun. People are going to play something they enjoy playing, and at the moment this seems to mean people are drifting away from the traditional conservative positions and trying to do something new. Does this realistically represent what's happening among capsuleers? Nope. But we can easily handwave that by pointing to non-RPers and saying 'there are your conservatives, see how badly we're outnumbered?'

[Raze Valadeus]

Raze is my first character on EVE online. He's got 3.5mil SP and is effectively a little over two months old.

I did a lot of reading on the Chronicles and the race histories and the Prime Fiction before I decided what I wanted to play and, in fact, went through several character concepts. (The only race I really didn't consider playing was Caldari).

I actually made Raze because I love the Amarr lore and I really thought it would be neat to try and play someone who loved the Empire and loved the people within it, who was also dedicated to the God of the Amarr but had a difference of opinion regarding some points.

For example, Raze doesn't see the justification for slavery in the Scriptures. He sees where it CAN be interpreted to support slavery and he sees the direct command for servitude and enforcing conformity. He simply believes that everything the Empire can accomplish through slavery can be accomplished through other methods and the justifications for slavery are based entirely on interpretation.

There are a few other things that he would likely dissent with conservatives over, but he genuinely has no desire to destroy, undermine or otherwise disrupt the functions of the Empire and those he considers his brothers and sisters in both faith and government.

When I made the character, I really thought that I'd be sort of unique. I thought it would be fun to play that sort of twist on the average Amarr. It wasn't until very recently that I realized there's already a pretty solid "liberal" presence on the servers.

But even with all of the capsuleers who are "liberal," the staunch imperial conservatives vastly outnumber the liberals and I think the Prime Fiction does support the existence of both. Namely with the line "...this double failure has spurred a whole generation of philosophy and politics..." in the True Amarr heritage.

[Jhaelee deAuvrie]

Jhaelee is the first character I created for EVE, like others.  It was initially based on the very limited intro paragraphs and the images of ships I was able to see during character creation. 

I tend to demo all of the major MMOs that come out and had finally made it around to EVE.  The character was made a girl simply because the last MMO demo I had made a guy (tends to be how I do it).  As for race, I though the limited description of the old powerful Theocracy aging poorly in a newer era sounded like a nice use of that archetype and likely fun to play because it was unlike most modern societies.  Sheepishly, though, I do have to admit what made me go Amarr was the ship looks.  The Punisher and the Omen compared to the Vigil and the Rupture in looks sent me towards the Amarr.  Though, had I seen the Hurricane and Minmatar capital ships my first character would be still be spitting bullets for the other side.

After I started and saw that I actually liked the game play and that the possibility to play for free was not some 1/4th of the game rip off like most MMOs, I began reading into the background of the group I had flippantly chosen.  That is what led me to PIE to begin with.  I strongly wanted to support my character’s faction in the most direct way possible. 

Despite my friend that originally got me to play EVE saying FW was the biggest steaming pile CCP every produced, I am still knee deep in it today.  It was mostly due to the influence of my corp mates and time I spent in PIE that helped me to fully decide the direction I wanted to take the Jhaelee character.

A big part of the Jhaelee mindset is the concept of divine right.  The Amarr had the right to enslave their early conquests because they had conquered them.  Reversely, many of the Minmatar won their right to freedom because they successfully rose up against the Empire.  Had that all not been the will of God, it would not have happened as such.

She is a bit to young to have been active during the controversy surrounding Empress Jamyl rise, but despite some concerns follows along with the changes that have been ordered simply because they come from the Empress.  This gives Jhaelee really no view but for the greater good of the Amarr Empire and a huge lacking when it comes to understanding other’s view points.

I have had a good time and gotten good interactions out of this character’s close minded view on some of these very weighty subjects.  Some of the minor fragments of that led Raphael Saint to flesh out his own character’s history. 

[Invelious]

So what if KOTMC isn't a textbook Amarr corp?

The more aspects and varieties the better!

Now, I might wardec them someday over it...

But that doesn't mean it's bad!

A new wave of Amarrian reclaiming is going to be taking effect, should be interesting to see the general amarrian groups reactions.

[Graelyn]

I'm not sure about 'reclaiming'.

Perhaps 'judgement by fire' would be more accurate?

[Shalee Lianne]

That would be interesting.  Bring it on, old man.