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[Raphael Saint]

Wondering if there are any truely amarr loyal and traditional conservatives out there, except for us PIE's tbh...

http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=2020.msg25678#msg25678]
First off, PIE Inc. is a liberal amarr corp in the traditional sense of the word.

Wat.

But to answer Lae's question which spawned the topic, yes, there are.  Raphael Saint is a conservative by pretty much every measure stated in the above posts, with the exception of disliking Tash-Murkon.  Even though they're Udorian in bloodline he views them as champions of moving up the social ladder, since they were originally wealthy commoners (which is also his ancestry).

He's also loyal to the Empire, a loyalty which spreads to the Empress as she is a Theo Council approved head of the state.

His seperation from PIE had nothing to do with ideological issues, as one may think now that he flies under the KotMC banner.  He still holds PIE in high regards, it's pilots as friends and allies, and he'd probably have gone back to PIE if not for the reason of his seperation.  In fact, his almost complete 180 view on policies and subjects with KotMC leadership as led to a few good RPs.

[Shalee Lianne]

I'm not going to alter my post, I've no idea why you are even offended by it.  If the forum moderators do not like it, they can erase it or ban me from the forums.

I said that to illustrate that we are an PVP corp, why you would take offense to that I have no idea.

But in the end, you're right.  People are free to make up their own opinions about things. 

However you don't have the monopoly of what is Amarrian and what is not.  New Eden is an enormous place and I am certain there are all sorts of people to make it up, not everyone is going to be a carbon copy of ArchBishop or Rodj Blake.  And it would be really boring for RP if they were.

Variety is good for rp.  Conflict is good for rp.  If we were all the same it'd be very, very dull.

Also, I'm not rping in this post nor was I in the other, no idea where you get that from.

~ Shalee

[Aldrith Shutaq]

Actually I think I have to agree with Laerise on one thing here: I honestly *think KotMC isn't wholly Amarrian anymore. It's become something beyond that now.

I suppose we'll have to start trying to define what it has become in the near future so we can clear up these diplomatic relations.

[Myyona]

This sounds very interesting.

Sadly, I am only an observer on the Amarrian scene but I have always found it interesting how people depict the Amarrian ways.

[Shalee Lianne]

I don't think any one person gets to decide what is 'wholly Amarrian'. 

[lallara zhuul]

I do.

And you all fail at it.

[Vincent Pryce]

Very insightful.

[Jhaelee deAuvrie]

I applauded Vince here for pointing out something important.  Everypony needs to calm down and take a step back.  This is meant to be a constructive OOC thread about the conservative of the Amarr Empire.  If things are presented in a hostile fashion, the entire point of it breaks down.

A big part of being conservative is resisting change.  The most extreme of which are those so stubborn that they will not change regardless of the ramifications.  Most people I have seen are playing something a bit more functional from that, their characters are being forced to change to survive in the turmoil of an ever changing world. 

Those that wish to play along those lines it is a great opportunity to role play someone holding on to what they are comfortable with and explore the inter conflict having to adjust to the elements they can not hold out on. 

Up from the complete holdouts to all change you get grades of grey until you eventually hit those that push for change purely because it is new and different. 

Only true self destructive anarchists push to that extreme, and even then most of them are only voicing chaotic change and fold from it what the going gets tough.  Instead you get most of your ‘liberals’ in those shades of grey.

Now the entire point of the ‘conservative’ is to be a contrast to the ‘liberal’ in a story.  With out one or the other, the remaining one is just flat.

Here is where we seem to be running into a problem, some of the outspoken members of the ‘old block’ of Amarr role players do not want new comers being outside of their comfort zone.  They wish for everything to remain in neat little rows, properly colored and numbered.  Many of the more outspoken of these new comers to the Amarr role playing scene become angry at what they perceive as a sudden wall of hostility.  Now we have conflict that not only does not drive good story growth, but creates direct hostility between players.

Read earlier in this thread, there is clear example of this.  What could have been growth opportunities instead being infested with hostility and passive-aggressive sniping.

It is, for the most part, pointless to try to define who is role playing properly.  Taking a “do it our way or GTFO” mindset makes the situation even worse.  I am not trying to turn this into a big, fat, lets get along speech.  I am just trying to say “save your hostility for in character interaction”.

(there, done soapboxing for now)

[Laerise [PIE]]

I'm not going to alter my post, I've no idea why you are even offended by it.  If the forum moderators do not like it, they can erase it or ban me from the forums.

No need for passive-agressiveness Shalee, really, the mod's are doing a great job at keeping this forum civil.

I said that to illustrate that we are an PVP corp, why you would take offense to that I have no idea.

No comment necessary on this on my part, really.

But in the end, you're right.  People are free to make up their own opinions about things. 

It's nice to see that we can agree on this.

However you don't have the monopoly of what is Amarrian and what is not.  New Eden is an enormous place and I am certain there are all sorts of people to make it up, not everyone is going to be a carbon copy of ArchBishop or Rodj Blake.  And it would be really boring for RP if they were.

I never said I did, nor did Archie or Rodj, so please keep them out of the discussion. Your paranoia is absolutely unfounded and quite upsetting Shalee, I don't really know where this sudden outburst of hostility comes from.
The simple fact of the matter is that once you start crossing certain boundaries of the (PF vailidified) codex of behaviour outlined for "amarrians" others will stop considering you as such.
Here is a simpler example for you, since I don't seem to have been clear enough on this matter before.

If you are from a country that is known for its close mindedness, strict morals and ethnic division and act open minded, morally emancipated and don't mind ethnics at all - well you should not be surprised to be considered as much a foreigner as everyone else.

Variety is good for rp.  Conflict is good for rp.  If we were all the same it'd be very, very dull.

I agree with you on all points, variety is good, conflict is even better, muddling the waters to make everyone wear the same label is bad.

Also, I'm not rping in this post nor was I in the other, no idea where you get that from.

Good to know, in that case I'll ask you to calm down a little, there is really no need to be upset about anything. After all we are all adults who can have a civil discussion without letting it devolve into, well, a squabble.

[Raphael Saint]

KotMC vs. PIE

Honestly this discussion shouldn't happen here because it can't.  More than half of it will end up in the catacombs.  There's just too much bad blood and history involved between the parties on both sides, and if the moderators can't see it happening already, I certainly can.

If everyone wants this to remain civil, than the thread seriously needs to go back on topic of which characters are conservative (posted by their owners) and who's not.  Relegate everything else to PMs, EVEmails, and in game channels.

And I swear to God that if I get one reply to this from any of those involved that says "I don't know what you're talking about," my reply is going to be so point-by-point expository and unforgiving that it won't even make it to the catacombs, it'll be outright deleted by the mods and I'll likely end up with a ban of some sort.  And I don't want that.  I like to reply to threads from time to time.

[Laerise [PIE]]

As far as I can see, apart from some borderline comments so far, it's been a pretty civil discussion.

[Jhaelee deAuvrie]

Getting back to the origin of the thread, specifically the wondering if there are any truly Amarr loyal and conservatives characters actively in EVE right now.  Writing this, I am trying to take an outside view.  I am not weighing in an specifics as this is what I/my character believe or this is not what is supported.

Firstly, I think that Victoria Stecker covered the difficulty of defining conservative beautifully.  Such often comes down to who is viewing and what it is being compared to.

Then the issue of loyalty to the Amarr Empire.  This can be a muddy one when looked at from a step back.  Often the determination of ‘loyal’ or ‘disloyal’ can only be made when viewed as a whole with the deeds of the individual.

Is a citizen who questions elements of the changes wrought in the Empire or the Empress Jamyl’s right to rule out of desire for the best for the Empire disloyal because they are concerned over that which they love?  Like wise, is the individual who just blindly follows what they think is the easiest to get by with really all that loyal or are they just going with the flow?   Is pointing out possible problems a sign of disloyalty or is it a sign of being invested enough to actually look.

One of the things I think is muddying this thread is the distinction between corporation and characters.  Some players have their characters in corporations because the feel they can do the most good within them, even if their character’s views and beliefs do not line up 100% to that of the corporation.

I can only speak of the corp my main character is in right now, which is KotMC.  This thread actually sparked an in depth, back and forth conversation on a number of elements relating to corp mindset/direction vs. character mindset/direction.  This lead to issues being brought up, elements defined, and some matters resolved.  One of the things that was very clear is that because of the diverse background of the KotMC members, there were a number of different views on some subjects. 

One of the things that seems to be hard to define is what makes an “Amarrian” corp.  More than just deciding you wanted to play an “Amarrian” corp, you have to define what makes it an “Amarrian” corp.  I do not believe that the same answer can be applied to every corp.  I think that the people creating/within the corp need to, both at the beginning and as time progresses, pause and take a look at what they feel sets them apart as an “Amarrian” corp.

With all this said, the actual leadership of the Amarr Empire is in the hands of NPCs or GMs in the event of story lines.  There is no over-all force that steps in, unquestionable, and says “you are loyal, you are not”.  Then that leaves it up to us, the players to define who and what our identities are as we play the game.

[Laerise [PIE]]

And what exactly makes Rodj's request OOC in this context - or, more precisely, why is the delivery method of a reaction to IC events relevant?

[Raze Valadeus]

Oh, I should clarify...

There's been plenty of OOC discussion regarding this whole affair on our forums and there's this hint of it here on these forums.

I realize that I am sort of the one that tied to the two together, so that is actually an error on my part. I apologize for the drawing strings where there weren't any before.

Carry on.

[Raphael Saint]

I'd personally love to see more PIE and KPV activity. Some good and proper Amarr/Khanid RP is fun to watch. All this non-Amarrian stuff proclaiming to be the 'twue' Amarr ways gets old and boring to interact with after a while. PIE needs to step up the activity, I think. Show New Eden how to do it Amarrian Style, as it were.

I have to say I agree OoC with many of the concerns raised here... KotMC isn't an Amarrian corp anymore, from what I can tell.

KPV did not survive Atlas's betrayal and Silas' departure.  However, I'd like to see more from PIE as well, just something against the Minmatar would be nice.  So far from all of it's transgressions, KotMC hasn't caused any sort problems for the Empire or war effort, and is still a very staunch supporter of combat actions in the militia warzone.

I can't speak for any of the other non-traditionalist Amarrian corps, but I can say that KotMC has never claimed to be the 'twue' or even 'true' Amarrian way.

Speaking of subjects getting old, though, I would definately like to see some more variety from the Minmatar side.  As a lifelong Amarrian-loyalist RPer, I can't count how many times I've seen the same names and arguements being thrown at us about slavery.  I've seen variety from the Amarrian side, with mentions of the Elder invaision, the Voluval marks creating outcasts and Pariahs, the way Shakor is leading the Republic.  But it seems that all I hear from the Minmatar end is 'Death to Slavers!'  I understand that it's a big and dear issue to the Minmatar, but even those on that side have to be tired of playing the same record over and over.