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[Merdaneth]

Silas, you already mentioned a large problem, you were mixing 'characters' and 'players' in your post. A character just weeks out of capsuleer academy might have a player with years worth of experience behind it, and hence expect to be treated as a heavyweight.

Also, people see only reflections of characters. A player could make a character appear as a heavyweight without actually being one. This is where scams are born. Players pretending to be or do something they aren't, which is perfectly valid way of playing. I don't think there is a need to have base your IC claims on actual positions.

If I have never seen you or noticed anything from you in game, you might claim you've herded hundreds of players and build grand nullsec Empires, but I wouldn't be particularly impressed just from that. Image is more important than actual in-game foundations, especially in a game where most in-game things aren't verifiable by trustworthy means.

If I want to impress you with my PvP ability, I rather prefer to enter the Khanid Capsuleer Tournament and beat you in space and not show you my killboard stats.

[Silas Vitalia]

Silas, you already mentioned a large problem, you were mixing 'characters' and 'players' in your post. A character just weeks out of capsuleer academy might have a player with years worth of experience behind it, and hence expect to be treated as a heavyweight.

Also, people see only reflections of characters. A player could make a character appear as a heavyweight without actually being one. This is where scams are born. Players pretending to be or do something they aren't, which is perfectly valid way of playing. I don't think there is a need to have base your IC claims on actual positions.

If I have never seen you or noticed anything from you in game, you might claim you've herded hundreds of players and build grand nullsec Empires, but I wouldn't be particularly impressed just from that. Image is more important than actual in-game foundations, especially in a game where most in-game things aren't verifiable by trustworthy means.

If I want to impress you with my PvP ability, I rather prefer to enter the Khanid Capsuleer Tournament and beat you in space and not show you my killboard stats.

And you did! Silas has referenced your chops on several occasions, hence IC respect for Merdaneth's abilities, especially in small-gang fights.

[Victoria Stecker]

Miz raises a really interesting point, which I’m spending way to much time thinking about. Thank god for that, work is really dull today.

Counter point: Capsuleers are extremely limited in their ability to interact with planets via their ships. Are we, however, so limited in our ability to interact via our wallets? Ok, I can’t land my ship on a planet and deploy soldiers – but in the absence of a sovereign power to stop me (sov nullsec), can I hire the ships and soldiers to do it for me?

Ok, so there’s no in game mechanic for ever talking with an NPC that isn’t an agent, so you could say that I’m not allowed to talk to such people. But the moment you step out of the capsule, there’s no reasonable way to limit my ability to negotiate with someone and then have them go and conquer the planet in my name. Why don’t we do this in hisec/lowsec/npc null? Because there’s another sovereign power that controls that space and will stop our would-be conquerors. But in sov null?

Ok, so concord has made it so that capsuleer carriers can only carry other capsuleer ship and drones, so I can’t just launch the invaders myself. But I have a station. Is it impossible for NPCs to come and go from a station without riding in a capsuleer ship? Maybe the initial crew compliment is carried out in freighters for construction, but what if new people want to join or the old and sick want to go home to empire space? We already know that there are a ton of things that don’t appear on our scanners – most civilian ships, interbus shuttles, Sansha dropships, etc.

So while I’m not actually taking my ship down to conquer the planet in question, I’m funding the army that’s launching from my station, going to the planet, and taking over in my name.

Does that sound feasible?

EDIT: five freaking posts in the time it took me to write that. Will give them a more thorough read through shortly.

[Ciarente]

I think a player can reasonably be expected to be treated OOCly in accordance with their experience as  a player, i.e. "I'm the alt of a major null-sec CEO, and here's my API to prove it. My opinion OOCly on nullsec is worth more than the other player whose character is the same 3 week old age"

I don't think that player can expect their character to be treated differently to the other 3 week old character unless they have a backstory for it - "I may have only had my licence for three weeks but I spent four years as the XO to the major null-sec CEO ((of whom I am the alt)).

As for convincing others you are what you aren't ... well, this is Eve. My character may not be particularly impressed by the true claims of one character and be bamboozled by the false claims of another. It's my impression, however, that this thread is about how we OOCly treat such claims. I don't think I can OOCly tell, for example, another player in my corp that his character is a lazy stay-at-home in the war on slavery and he can't claim otherwise ICly if I can tell from the kill/loss record that he's been out daily blowing up Amarr ships.

[Silas Vitalia]

I'd also like to point out we are in fairly new territory with these concepts. How many RP groups hold null-territory? CVA did for years, but I'm not bringing to mind their specific stance on these issues, or what was reflected via news, etc. 

U'K also owned a good chunk of space for a while if I recall? I imagine/would hope they'd be RPing the hell out of their territory, setting up new settlement for freed slaves, and all that good stuff.

[Silas Vitalia]

If I recall when Star Fraction built their station in null, they were running it as a 'freeport' with all the associated things that go with that. Their territory, their laws, their RP as far as I was concerned.

[Esna Pitoojee]

Miz raises a really interesting point, which I’m spending way to much time thinking about...

*words*

Does that sound feasible?

That's basically what I'd call reasoning it out, Victoria. Yes, there's no PF that says it can happen, but there's really no reason to believe that it doesn't either. We see plenty of non-capsuleer mercenaries about, after all... the real question is once Dust 514 comes out, will having some consolers go down and pew on a planet for you become a "pre-requisite" of sorts for having non-existent mercs land on a planet and do stuff.

Re-Aw runs a program for former slaves. IG, it's a can, where we put the slaves, with food and, um ... liquor and stuff.  As far as game mechanics are concerned, we could be imprisoning them. We RP that it involves medical care and vocational training and so on, but we can't support it through any game mechanic.

This is also an example of what I'd consider extension beyond mechanics/PF by logical reasoning. If we don't extend beyond somehow, then we're pretty well stuck with "people sitting in a cargo container, evidently never eating, using water, or producing waste".

[Ciarente]

This is also an example of what I'd consider extension beyond mechanics/PF by logical reasoning. If we don't extend beyond somehow, then we're pretty well stuck with "people sitting in a cargo container, evidently never eating, using water, or producing waste".

Exactly. I have a bunch of marines in my hangar that are my IG justification for Cia having marines. I haven't fed them or paid them in eighteen months ...

[Silas Vitalia]

Here's the PF I was looking for. Read the chronicle:

http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=15-06-10

Pay special attention to this, and I've bolded a few lines:

For those who don't want to read, a capsuleer converses with a Planetary governer, and strong-arms him into doing his bidding via threat of violence against the planet.

“That sound you’re hearing,” Omvistus replied, “is your planet’s bombardment siren. You’ve probably never had to pay much attention to it in the past, seeing as your world is safely under the jurisdiction of CONCORD, but that is no longer the case.” As he spoke, the back window of the conference room took on a noticeably red tint, saturating the room in crimson light. “What you’re seeing now is the targeting laser used to aim my battleship’s six 425 millimeter railgun turrets. At this altitude, the gravity of your planet will augment the standard launch velocity of each solid projectile to speeds well beyond operational specifications, enough to obliterate anything within half a kilometer of the impact site.” Omvistus’s image grew larger on the screen before he continued.

 “Anything between that location and two kilometers from ground zero will suffer a worse fate, as the antimatter suspended in each shell escapes its containment field and expands in a random dispersion pattern, colliding with the ambient normal matter on the ground – buildings, trees, children, everything. Whatever these particles touch will experience matter disassociation on an atomic level as, piece by piece, they are reduced to unidentifiable residual particles.” He paused briefly, and then concluded.

 “With a single thought, I can reduce your entire city to a smoldering crater; the boiling wind rushing in to replace the void left behind will be laced with dust particles that were once the bodies of everyone you know and love. Do you understand?”

[Casiella]

Funny, when I read that one, I eventually came to the conclusion that the capsuleer was bluffing. If you go find the discussion thread on it, you'll see that readers found all sorts of evidence for that.

[Kybernetes Moros]

Yeah, much as I enjoyed Xenocracy, I'd always interpreted it as the impact of the planetary structures being fairly true-to-'life' (for want of a better phrase), whereas the elements of the planetary bombardment were more on the bluff end of the spectrum. That being said, feel free to prove me wrong; I just applied my own logic to what we see in-game without doing any serious research in that regard.

[Casiella]

The character was very new at the time (already existed about a month before the chron was published) and was threatening with railguns and target painters from what we guessed to be an Amarr BS (since he was still in a newbie corp). Also, the painting is, um, not consistent with what else we've seen.

I figured he was bluffing, either intentionally or because he didn't really know any better.

[Borza]

U'K also owned a good chunk of space for a while if I recall? I imagine/would hope they'd be RPing the hell out of their territory, setting up new settlement for freed slaves, and all that good stuff.

Don't think we ever published things properly publicly but yeah we rehabilitated tons of freed slaves in stations, relocated from there and planetside to the Great Wildlands and so on to be passed on to the hidden sanctuaries.

[John Revenent]

Even after our organizations IC falling out I think your RP is straightforward and quite logical compared to some. The RP aspects are limitless I think personally especially if you own your chunk of null. I-RED's main goal even if we have been railed on many times is to get our own sov one day small or not, and setup Free-Trade Zones in a lax NRDS atmosphere.

I am told regularly I am doing it wrong but I just go off what I see, read, hear. Like everyone else who is a loyalist organization, I do not worry much about it, and go with what I feel is right. (I am probably one of the more amateur RPers but like everyone else we try to make it flow.) I would not worry much about others opinions when its your name on the map.

[Silas Vitalia]

Even after our organizations IC falling out I think your RP is straightforward and quite logical compared to some. The RP aspects are limitless I think personally especially if you own your chunk of null. I-RED's main goal even if we have been railed on many times is to get our own sov one day small or not, and setup Free-Trade Zones in a lax NRDS atmosphere.

I am told regularly I am doing it wrong but I just go off what I see, read, hear. Like everyone else who is a loyalist organization, I do not worry much about it, and go with what I feel is right. (I am probably one of the more amateur RPers but like everyone else we try to make it flow.) I would not worry much about others opinions when its your name on the map.

Thanks John,

I'm still peeved about the whole thing personally, but ce 'est la vie. 

Brief off topic: For those who don't know and without naming names, etc, we had been looking into inviting IRED down to Querious and formalizing territory together, with IRED eventually getting their own systems, etc in Querious.

Long story short some of our ex-leadership made some unilateral promises to IRED that they couldn't keep when the rest of our group found out. IRED were already halfway-moving in to our area, drama bbq ensued and they (rightly) packed up and left before any more shenanigans went down.  I was put in a terrible position trying to stick up for IRED and get them in, but having to put out a lot of behind the scene fires as well. Also embarrassingly I had already written up a nice little IGS piece about them coming down, etc right when it all went to pot.

Meh.