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[hellgremlin]

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1467289&page=1#8

I'll paste the hinty bits here.

Maybe that is a thought Labron imparts to his students, before they head out into the world and go about their success and profit. A lesson about why some illusions need to be maintained. I leave you with that thought. Razz

..and this vague suggestion: If the idea of the wildly successful graduate piqued your interest, consider why someone is concerned that someone else was chosen for a task, and what that means.

So... in Eve's storyline... is there an incidence of someone being chosen for a task... with someone else expressing concern... and an overarching "this person is wildly successful" theme?

(I've found *one* but I'd rather not say what it is... not out of intentional obfuscation, but merely to see if anyone else can find something different - or identical, confirming my suspicion.)

[Hamish Grayson]

His allusion to the Matrix further convinces me that the Sleepers were humans who had their minds transferred to machines just like the CEO of Zainou, but they spend most of their time interacting with a virtual world rather than the real one.   Thus they are 'sleeping.'   The Mirrior site, is either a back up of their virtual world, or a back up of their minds - similar to a Capsuleers clone.

As for who you are thinking of, I have no idea.  Outside of black mountain, all individuals with any meat to their stories are heads of State or powerful CEOs and aside from the Empress's new magic powers none have any overt connection to the ancient races that I am aware of.

[Kybernetes Moros]

The only example I can think of is Hilen and Lianda (I think that's what they're called, anyway) in the Vitrauze Project and Anoikis chrons, as much as I like to look away from wormhole-space to try and find things about this storyline.

[Horatius Caul]

Personally, I read it as an outright reference to the Anoikis chronicle:

"What is your assessment?"

"I believe she is dead."

"You are correct. There was activity on the line. She was at one of the mirrors."

The ambassador almost seemed to smile for a moment. "She learned well."

"She was taught by the best. We are concerned about the reasons why she was chosen. "

"Perhaps you should be, but then there are not many astrophysicists with clones."

"Let us hope it is that simple."

[Borza]

As for who you are thinking of, I have no idea.  Outside of black mountain, all individuals with any meat to their stories are heads of State or powerful CEOs and aside from the Empress's new magic powers none have any overt connection to the ancient races that I am aware of.

Except perhaps those trained by the SoCT. Or with links to the Elders - depending on who/what they actually are.

[hellgremlin]

Yep, those were my suspicions as well: Hilen and Lianda... now, *why* was Hilen concerned about Lianda being picked?

[hellgremlin]

Personally, I read it as an outright reference to the Anoikis chronicle:

"What is your assessment?"

"I believe she is dead."

"You are correct. There was activity on the line. She was at one of the mirrors."

The ambassador almost seemed to smile for a moment. "She learned well." <- Jovian Ambassador?

"She was taught by the best. We are concerned about the reasons why she was chosen. "

"Perhaps you should be, but then there are not many astrophysicists with clones."

"Let us hope it is that simple."

This "chosen" business. Was Lianda Burreau referred to in either of the Eve novels? Where else does she appear?

[Horatius Caul]

This "chosen" business. Was Lianda Burreau referred to in either of the Eve novels? Where else does she appear?

Other than The Vitrauze Project and Seyllin news arc, nowhere from what I can gather.

Everything that is available seems to be there.

Personally, I'd bet on the SoCT being the key to this one particular mystery. If Burreau was educated by the Society she may have been groomed for the task.

Not sure who the ambassador is, but I guess he could be Jovian (though perhaps not representing the Jove Empire...). CreoDron seems to be the ones questioning Burreau's selection, meaning they may not have been entirely in the lead on the project (likely if the ambassador is Jove or SoCT). Whatever the case is, the ambassador does nothing to extinguish their suspicions.

The "wildly successful" people angle pretty much defines the SoCT schools, though it's not been expanded on much. If Burreau was a SoCT student, she would be one of those successful people.

My theory would be that the SoCT has been preparing for the Sleeper mystery for a long time, and known that a certain advancement of the mind would be necessary to solve the puzzle. However, they weren't sure on the "where" or "when" or "who". So they started seeding the Empires with people suited for the tasks. Now, not all SoCT students go for the same fields of study, so only a small percentage would be astrophysicists (which they apparently needed for the CreoDron job) and an even smaller percentage would meet the other requirements (Clone/pod?).

There are likely to be a relatively large number of astrophysicists around with clones, but the number of those with SoCT education would be tiny - and the number of those positioned to take on this job apparently came down to just one.

But that's just me theorycrafting.

[Amann Karris]

Oi.

So... in Eve's storyline... is there an incidence of someone being chosen for a task... with someone else expressing concern... and an overarching "this person is wildly successful" theme?

Prime suspects:
Mentas Blaque, Jacus Roden, Souro Foiritan, Keitan Yun.

One of these things is not like the other...

"Learned from the Best": Keitan Yun was a guest lecturer at the University of Caille.  He has a female who communicates with the Minmatar Elders (though didn't she get reassigned to help a certain sister of a dead Megacorp CEO?  Can't remember now).  One of the biggies there.  Possibly one of the individuals at the end of "Anoikis", but I doubt it; Keitan Yun was a political science guy; a diplomat, as far as I could tell.  To be honest, I skimmed a lot at the end of Empyrean Age; I blame the huge page count. 

Mentas Blaque: Lost election to Foiritan.  Became head of the Black Eagles and the Fed Intelligence service thingy.  Failed to keep Foiritan in office (hehehe).

Souro Foiritan: Booted out of office through the machinations of Jacus Roden.  Not so successful.  Was "keeping up an illusion" in order to keep power.

Jacus Roden: Was one of the "power players" who funded Crielere.  Had issues with Foiritan's hand in shutting the project down.  Got revenge later on, and is now President of the Federation.  Second most likely suspect for a cover up, and being the real "big bad".  Has the facade of a

Kuvakei:  The dark horse of the competition; has wormhole tech, but certain evidence points to Kuvakei simply stumbling on some important info.  He also states that he's a "liberator", "uplifting" people, etc.

The Broker:  Need I say more?  He has access to super cloning, an incurable disease, and was mad that the Minmatar were getting something he wanted (and for free, to boot).


There's a lot of ways you can spin that; but there's something else there, and I'll continue in a bit after I look something up.

[Borza]

As for who you are thinking of, I have no idea.  Outside of black mountain, all individuals with any meat to their stories are heads of State or powerful CEOs and aside from the Empress's new magic powers none have any overt connection to the ancient races that I am aware of.

Except perhaps those trained by the SoCT. Or with links to the Elders - depending on who/what they actually are.

So Malaetu Shakor didn't immediately pop into anybody else's head?

[hellgremlin]

Damn. Well, there goes any speculation I had.

[Amann Karris]

Damn. Well, there goes any speculation I had.

No my boy, you aren't seeing the whole picture.

So... in Eve's storyline... is there an incidence of someone being chosen for a task... with someone else expressing concern... and an overarching "this person is wildly successful" theme?

It sounds quite a bit like Capsuleers.  Even if this is in relation to Burreau specifically (in the context that I am drawing this particular reference), it still fits.

So, my boy, is Hilen Tukoss a Capsuleer?  How about the Jin-Mei at the meeting at the beginning of Anoikis?  Did she not state the exact situation you mention above regarding Burreau?

The conversation at the end of Anoikis is rather blunt; the only way the Empires can maintain a balance of power in relation to wormholes, or something else?  Further, with whom do they need to maintain power?  The last question is easily answered; in the context of the chronicle, the Capsuleers.  The Empires have objected at every stage to the increases of power given to Capsuleers.  However, the Empires rely on Capsuleers more than they'd comfortably like to admit.

Again, someone is offering something to "balance the equation" so-to-speak.  Now, if they have the power to do this, are they truly balancing things?  As it's stated in Anoikis, "if this is ever understood in it's entirety, there will be consequences."  This person obviously know what's going on in W-space, are maintaining an "illusion"...

Now who would be the most likely candidate given this information?  Do you understand the basics of what is going on?  Without a clear picture of what is going on, it's hard to fit the pieces correctly.

There's an intentional correlation with that idea and a similar one outlined by Ior Labron, but Lebron takes it a step further. He asks, what if the evil demon one day dropped the charade. Labron essentially argues that if you knew this entity had the power to reveal the truth, to liberate you from your prison, then you should surely question their intent, and be wary in considering them a liberator. The idea is a simple one, being; if they have the power to tear down the world of lies you have been living in, then surely they had a had in its creation too.

He's a mad genius.  Why?  Because at the end of the day, there is a very simple conflict going on, that he (and the rest of the folks at CCP) makes both fascinating and enthralling.

Take a step back, clear your mind, and look at the evidence that's there.  Hell, Dropbear even stated that you were on to something that you didn't realize, Hellgremlin.  Come on, it's so obvious!

Heh, and also; sometimes, the answers are so glaringly obvious that it hurts.

[Horatius Caul]

Come on, it's so obvious!

Not sharing is not caring.

[hellgremlin]

Good point about that Jin-Mei. Something I hadn't thought of. Of course, the relevance of the Jin-Mei is completely unknown.

I'm pretty good at taking steps back and big picture overviews, but I'm not seeing what you're hinting at here :f

It feels like the Jovians are doing their damnedest to keep the four human empires at equal balance.

[Saikoyu]

I will say that my mind is not really up to the task of trying to solve this, and that I still half think CCP is sitting back waiting for something that a player says to strike their interest and then they will go with that.  But I'll just throw this out there, based on some stuff below, and a bit of Mass Effect storyline.  Sorry if someone has suggested this before.

What if this is all a game?  I mean, in universe, all of this stuff going on is basically a game, a string of deceptions created for the sole purpose of diverting us podders and to a lesser extent the Empires.  Think about this.  There is a caste of powerful people with little to no controls over them, the podders.  This caste is immortal, but new members are born every year, so it grows ever larger, and ever more powerful.  Now ever some of the Empires are being lead by these podders.  At some point, it would not be far off to assume that the majority of all people in the Eve Universe will be podders, just through the theory of evolution. 

Now take the Jovians, who for all we have seen of them, are such a society, one that is declining after having reached its peek.  Assume they could see that humans in the Empires were gradually evolving into what they were, and that as some point they would take over their place.  And maybe most of the Jovians do not want to be dismissed so easily.  Still, they know that even if they killed every last human in Eve, it would not stop their eventual replacement by something, so they decide to guide their replacement to take as long as possible.  They influence the primative races evolving into the four empires, guide them along paths that will bring them into conflict.  Think of the random chance it would take to have a religious empire within spitting distance of a tribal race that would resist slavery.  Or of a democracy existing in the same system as a corporate government.  Take it even further, wonder why there are ancient races that seemed to live in the exact areas that modern day races inhabit.  We know there were previous Jovian Empires.  Could they have influenced them as they may influence us?  And it continues today.  CONCORD, an organization the Jovians helped create, continues this conflict with a proxy war that will never end because its instigators will never die. 

Then the next step.  The Jovians know that sooner or later tech to rivel their own will come up, so they make sure that the tech that arrises mirrors their own, tech they know the weaknesses to.  They give us the pod, and cloning.  Then, just when we might discover something new on our own, we find Terran artifacts that becomes the Emperess's superweapon.  There was a Jovian ship there, completing a mission.  And then rogue drones open the wormholes.  How would Gallente drones, no matter how corrupted, know how to do that, unless someone else told them to do it.  So, the wormholes open up and we drop everything to steal the tech we find there instead of advancing our own.  Tech from Sleepers, and who knows who they are.  An ancient race, one of the Jovian's former pawns, filling a new role maybe?  Then, when that winds up being easy and yesterday's news, the Sansha attack.  Sansha who somehow managed to arrive in a Jovian system and take over a Jovian station, dispite not having technology that is greatly advanced from the Empires.  And again, we do not question, but take this technology directly from them, using their own ships even. 

Where does all of this bring us?  We are being kept in balance, so that we will never find out something for ourselves, never join with each other and become a threat to the Jovians until we have served our purpose for them.  As for what that is, maybe they will just kill us all and have the worlds start afreash.  Maybe we will join with them to continue the cycle on others.  Or maybe they will force us to replace them, and become the next Jovian empire as they die out, following their plan as we decieve the next races to be born. 

Or I'm leting my inner conspiracy freak out a bit too much.