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[Amann Karris]

Or I'm leting my inner conspiracy freak out a bit too much.

Possibly, but then again...

..."All these worlds are yours."

Ever hear of the Mirror Test?

[Hamish Grayson]

There seems to be this common idea that the Jovians are bad guys has sprung up lately, but that is never something I've believed.   As I understood it, they are a dieing race who want to leave a legacy behind.   Their goal is to make set humanity on a path that ensures they survive after the Jovians are gone and that they don't make the same mistakes that the Jovians did.

The Hyrdostatic capsule, SoCT Skill book and whatever other meddling they've done is giving humans the tools to survive their encounters with things like rouge drones and sleepers.   Think about how quickly rouge drones conquered the drone regions and how fucked humanity would be with capsuleers.   If it wasn't for the Pod, which turns humans in to hunters and drones into prey, the drones might have wiped out humans by this point.

[Inara Subaka]

The Hyrdostatic capsule, SoCT Skill book and whatever other meddling they've done is giving humans the tools to survive their encounters with things like rouge drones and sleepers.   Think about how quickly rouge drones conquered the drone regions and how fucked humanity would be with capsuleers.   If it wasn't for the Pod, which turns humans in to hunters and drones into prey, the drones might have wiped out humans by this point.

Not to mention maintaining the quasi-stability between the other big factions (the big 4 and the others). Mutually assured destruction is a fairly solid way of securing peace, as twisted as it sounds, it's one of the most effective.

And Capsuleers are more effective than a planet buster bomb, because Capsuleers are able to sustain themselves and hit multiple targets in rapid succession if necessary.

Speaking of this little side-note, OOC I view FW as an IC way for the empires to point and go "look, we're sending the best of the best to do something." without actually accomplishing much. Because CONCORD is a board from the 4(5) big nations, and they passed the FW bills that allow the farce of a war, I honestly think it was a political move. Besides, name an economy that's better than a wartime economy?

[Z.Sinraali]

Besides, name an economy that's better than a wartime economy?

All of them.

[Amann Karris]

You're all talking about the ones who might be covering things up; what's the conspiracy?  Is there one?

Also, what would "Pre-Jovian" mean? 

[hellgremlin]

You're all talking about the ones who might be covering things up; what's the conspiracy?  Is there one?

Also, what would "Pre-Jovian" mean? 

"Pre-Jovian" to me, means 500 years ago (by Eve calendar.) That's how old the current Jove empire is, give or take.

The conspiracy... well, that would take too long to go over here. :F

[Amann Karris]

Since I'm now "officially" away from EVE (my account is *finally* inactive), I'll give some good, serious hints as to what I think is going on.

1: There's a reason the Talocan are in W-space with the Sleepers.

2: "Talocan" could have a root in "Tlalocan", or "Place of Tlaloc".  Tlaloc is a mesoamerican deity, and Tlalocan is where he lived.  Tlalocan was said to be reached through dreams, and always for the purpose of curing an illness.

3: "Tony Gonzales" - need I say more?

4: TEA - A disease was "cured".   

5: The Blood Raiders saw signs of their "end times" in images from Sleeper space.

6: Tlaloc was a God that required sacrifices.

Now, given this "random" information, and some more detailed information on the above subjects available from Wikipedia, I built a rather loosely constructed theory involving "Talocan Technology".

What if Talocan Technology does not refer to technology of the Talocan people, but technology found in "Talocan", the place of "Taloc".  Given Tony Gonzales' penchant for mythology and "iconic figures", I have a strange feeling that Talocan are named such (and used in W-space) for a very obvious and symbolic purpose:

They were the ones using the Sleeper ships.  I also highly doubt that they were the "Talocan people", simply someone using their technology.

From the Quarantine Area:

“You have entered a quarantine area. This region is infected. Leave now.”
“Violation of the quarantine will result in –“
“ –missiles are armed, ready to – “

Now, what was that about "Tlalocan", the "Place of Tlaloc"?  What was the main reason to go there, and how did you get there?

1: You went there for a cure to a disease.

2: You get there in your sleep.

So, Sleepers go there and the Talocan go there, with at least one site sending out a message regarding a quarantine.  The Sleepers have "The Mirror", with medical centers, biological research facilities, etc.  I think the evidence points to a rather interesting possibility, one that I'm sure could easily fit in with the "Pre-Jovian Technology" idea presented in "The Blood-Stained Stars".

With all this evidence pointing to a disease, was there ever a cure?  What kind of disease was it?  Three enclaves in The Mirror point to genetic research.  Part of that research points to genetic engineering.

The more fascinating aspect of "Tlalocan"?  It was a place for those who had died violent deaths, particularly deaths associated with water.

"Wetgrave"?

It was also reached, through dreams, via whirlpools.

"Fluid routers"?

In the particular case of wetgraving, neurodegenerative case studies are mentioned in The Mirror enclaves.  Fluid routers are used by the Sleepers.  A lot of small things pointing in a very interesting direction I think.  Also, Tech 3 ships basically extend the consciousness of the pilot into the various parts, based on advances gleaned from Sleeper technology.

So what if the "sacrifices" made by the "Talocan" to "Taloc" were sacrifices of people?  In particular, people to operate technology they did not fully understand at the time?  The software to operate hardware; hardware with hard limitations on capabilities, but with quite a huge amount of processing power.

"Are they human?"
"Not anymore."

 

You want your beasts from beyond, your inhuman monsters?  You want your multi-tentacled, Chthonic deities from beyond?  Take a look in "The Mirror".   

[Casiella]

Since I'm now "officially" away from EVE (my account is *finally* inactive)...

See ya next week, bro.

[hellgremlin]

Since I'm now "officially" away from EVE (my account is *finally* inactive), I'll give some good, serious hints as to what I think is going on.

1: There's a reason the Talocan are in W-space with the Sleepers.

2: "Talocan" could have a root in "Tlalocan", or "Place of Tlaloc".  Tlaloc is a mesoamerican deity, and Tlalocan is where he lived.  Tlalocan was said to be reached through dreams, and always for the purpose of curing an illness.

3: "Tony Gonzales" - need I say more?

4: TEA - A disease was "cured".   

5: The Blood Raiders saw signs of their "end times" in images from Sleeper space.

6: Tlaloc was a God that required sacrifices.

Now, given this "random" information, and some more detailed information on the above subjects available from Wikipedia, I built a rather loosely constructed theory involving "Talocan Technology".

What if Talocan Technology does not refer to technology of the Talocan people, but technology found in "Talocan", the place of "Taloc".  Given Tony Gonzales' penchant for mythology and "iconic figures", I have a strange feeling that Talocan are named such (and used in W-space) for a very obvious and symbolic purpose:

They were the ones using the Sleeper ships.  I also highly doubt that they were the "Talocan people", simply someone using their technology.

From the Quarantine Area:

“You have entered a quarantine area. This region is infected. Leave now.”
“Violation of the quarantine will result in –“
“ –missiles are armed, ready to – “

Now, what was that about "Tlalocan", the "Place of Tlaloc"?  What was the main reason to go there, and how did you get there?

1: You went there for a cure to a disease.

2: You get there in your sleep.

So, Sleepers go there and the Talocan go there, with at least one site sending out a message regarding a quarantine.  The Sleepers have "The Mirror", with medical centers, biological research facilities, etc.  I think the evidence points to a rather interesting possibility, one that I'm sure could easily fit in with the "Pre-Jovian Technology" idea presented in "The Blood-Stained Stars".

With all this evidence pointing to a disease, was there ever a cure?  What kind of disease was it?  Three enclaves in The Mirror point to genetic research.  Part of that research points to genetic engineering.

The more fascinating aspect of "Tlalocan"?  It was a place for those who had died violent deaths, particularly deaths associated with water.

"Wetgrave"?

It was also reached, through dreams, via whirlpools.

"Fluid routers"?

In the particular case of wetgraving, neurodegenerative case studies are mentioned in The Mirror enclaves.  Fluid routers are used by the Sleepers.  A lot of small things pointing in a very interesting direction I think.  Also, Tech 3 ships basically extend the consciousness of the pilot into the various parts, based on advances gleaned from Sleeper technology.

So what if the "sacrifices" made by the "Talocan" to "Taloc" were sacrifices of people?  In particular, people to operate technology they did not fully understand at the time?  The software to operate hardware; hardware with hard limitations on capabilities, but with quite a huge amount of processing power.

"Are they human?"
"Not anymore."

 

You want your beasts from beyond, your inhuman monsters?  You want your multi-tentacled, Chthonic deities from beyond?  Take a look in "The Mirror".   

It's almost as though you're hinting I should repeatedly self-destruct in a T3 ship near the Mirror, allowing my "lost" skillpoints to re-accumulate elsewhere :F

I wonder what the nature of the disease is. I've been giving it a lot of thinking. This Jovian Disease or whatever you want to call it.

Nearly omnipotent technological advancement... the ability to shape your environment into anything you desire... except, you simply run out of desire to keep doing it. Sounds like clinical depression. Don't these guys have Cipralex? Prozac?

[Graelyn]

The Jovians need the capsuleers not-mad-and-broken minds to download into at some point. It's the only way to save their species. We are a cultivated crop.

Of course, we don't have enough SP to hold them yet without loss. Give it time.

Maybe. Or not. 

[hellgremlin]

We are a cultivated crop.

Of course, we don't have enough SP to hold them yet without loss. Give it time.

Maybe. Or not. 

I'm thinking this too. Especially with my recent eureka moment regarding the Voluval.

[Amann Karris]

It's almost as though you're hinting I should repeatedly self-destruct in a T3 ship near the Mirror, allowing my "lost" skillpoints to re-accumulate elsewhere :F

On the contrary, the lost skill points simply... uh... "point" to the inherent risks of using the technology.

I wonder what the nature of the disease is. I've been giving it a lot of thinking. This Jovian Disease or whatever you want to call it.

Neurodegenerative disorders are funny things...

Nearly omnipotent technological advancement... the ability to shape your environment into anything you desire... except, you simply run out of desire to keep doing it. Sounds like clinical depression. Don't these guys have Cipralex? Prozac?

Are they really omnipotent?  Think about what I just pointed out about Tech 3.  If one of the technologies based on Sleeper salvage is dangerous if actually used as intended, what would happen if someone used the technology without realizing the dangers?  What if they lost some control, and just thought, "Well, this is the greatest thing since sliced bread!  Why not use it to it's full potential, damn the risks?"

We are a cultivated crop.

Of course, we don't have enough SP to hold them yet without loss. Give it time.

Maybe. Or not. 

I'm thinking this too. Especially with my recent eureka moment regarding the Voluval.

Not quite.  Most likely they're looking for a "bridge" between body and tech, without the nasty side effect of... you know... actually dying or losing a chunk of memory in the process.  Another funny idea I had, what if the Sleeper tech in W-space was their proverbial womb?  What if they were actually engineered in W-space?  I mean, that would be a whole Oedipal thing right there, and would explain why they would be disinclined to take that route. 

That is of course assuming that the Jove have a Talocan link... after all, think of how long ago the Jove were united in the Second Empire.  It's around the time that the first Reclaiming was occurring on Amarr Prime/Athra according to the (admittedly contradictory) timelines on the EVE site.

The most fascinating thing for me?  I wonder if there's a link between "Ametat and Avetat", Udorians, the Jove and the Takmahl.  Cybernetics, bio-engineering, worshiping other Gods... ::cough::Taloc::cough::

What?  I'm just saying, the timelines actually fit.   

Capsuleers aren't a crop, they're Sleepers v2.0 (or 3, possibly 4.  I haven't quite worked that part out yet).  A more careful and slow progression towards where the "Talocan" were originally trying to accomplish.  Think about the "Book of Emptiness", why the Society would be interested in it, and the implications pointed to in "Jita 4-4", what happens when you lose a T3 ship when you're still in it, and above all Wetgraving.

At the end of the day, are the Jove truly malevolent?  If they are manipulating the Empires, it's to make sure that they don't make the same mistakes they did.  They're trying to protect everyone from a horrendous, "EPIC FAIL" moment of scientific discovery and stupidity.

If the situation is ever understood in its entirety, as you predict, then there will be consequences for these actions.

I do not share that view. What we do now benefits all parties. If our motives are ultimately viewed as benign, then any perceived wrongdoings can be explained in full detail as they are identified. Trust and clarification at the highest tiers will filter downward and provide the level of institutional compliance necessary to establish the agreement.

That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.

 

[Casiella]

Sooo tempted to chuck it all and join them.

Also in EVE.

[Amann Karris]

Since I'm now "officially" away from EVE (my account is *finally* inactive)...

See ya next week, bro.

NO.  You won't.  My people are immune to the Jedi Mind Trick!

[Casiella]

They always come back...

one of us... one of us...