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[Jade Constantine]

The thing is, it's either alway wrong, or always okay. The use of links and web traces or whatever does not enter into the equation. It's no different from other occasions of people (and not just Jade, mind) doing the same thing with others.

Well part of the reason I always use my own image hosting on my web server can be seen on IGS at the moment. I control where the links go. If I consider the RP is decent and fair then I'll keep them as they are. If I consider people are taking the piss then who knows what can happen.

[Mizhara]

Does not in any shape, way or form change the initial 'revelation'. If you can take the first links as IC proof of connection between Jade and that other character (which I'm convinced you can, as it's IC available on an IC forum, and supported by PF stating that the structure of Galnet is very similar to our current day internet), you can easily take the changed links and say "Ah, lookie here, damage control." Once the cat's out of the bag, it's not so easily stuffed back.

In short... changing the links viewed from an IC perspective is just that the characters are doing exactly that, In Character.

It's quite simply a difference in opinion, apparently. My opinion is that it's IC available information, used in an IC fashion to create IC connections between two characters. Supported quite a bit by the use of Rosalyn as an Amarr bashing Jade sycophant, having Revan cozy up to her just like she does with Jade (IC perspective). This has been remarked on, on the IGS, long before the picture links were discovered.

Now, I doubt there'll be any kind of agreement on this point, but here's a recommendation/advise nonetheless:

If you do have multiple IGS posting characters (I personally use just one, to avoid this kind of thing), use neutral/randomized image hosting services. Tinypic is one I am very fond of, as it's impossible to connect between characters. It avoids the entire problem, and allows you to keep denouncing IGS mouthpieces IC while avoiding the IC 'Ahah! But you do it yourself!' thing.

And while I'm stepping closer to the 'urdoinitrong' territory, I would like to make a final recommendation:

Turn Rosalyn Shaw slightly less... well, SF/Jade asskisser. I'm sorry, but that's the impression I get both IC and OoC. It makes her look like she was constructed purely for that kind of thing, supporting SF/Jade posting and denouncing Amarr/SF-detractor posting without having SF connections. That's the appearance I get from that character, and what I got long before these links were provided.

Make her more into a character of her own on IGS. Doing lowbrow humor isn't something that'll separate the character much from Jade, to be quite honest. Anyway, that's just a recommendation, and I'm not saying 'urdoinitrong'. It's just friendly advice in order to avoid these kinds of things in the future.

[Laerise [PIE]]

Does not in any shape, way or form change the initial 'revelation'. If you can take the first links as IC proof of connection between Jade and that other character (which I'm convinced you can, as it's IC available on an IC forum, and supported by PF stating that the structure of Galnet is very similar to our current day internet), you can easily take the changed links and say "Ah, lookie here, damage control." Once the cat's out of the bag, it's not so easily stuffed back.

In short... changing the links viewed from an IC perspective is just that the characters are doing exactly that, In Character.

It's quite simply a difference in opinion, apparently. My opinion is that it's IC available information, used in an IC fashion to create IC connections between two characters. Supported quite a bit by the use of Rosalyn as an Amarr bashing Jade sycophant, having Revan cozy up to her just like she does with Jade (IC perspective). This has been remarked on, on the IGS, long before the picture links were discovered.

I cannot express how much I agree with this, well said.

[lallara zhuul]

...form a community roleplay code of conduct that we could all strive to follow...

Has been tried before.
It would turn the handicap that is RP even more binding therefore people that shun handicaps would react to such initiative negatively.

[Rodj Blake]

So let's be clear about all this.

Someone has two different characters. They want to roleplay them as different and not connected to one another. Just that, nothing super-secret or involving any kind of subterfuge. They're just an EVE player who fancies dipping into two different aspect of RP.

The player makes some sigs for their two characters. Hosts them, naturally enough, at the same URL without really giving it much thought, and carries on RPing and enjoying themselves for a year or so, crafting through actual roleplay in channels, on IGS and in space separate identities with no connection.

And then, a clever-minded inquisitor comes along, decides to play trace the signature game on a variety of characters and finds out that these two characters must be played by the same person.

They then expose this in an 'IC' way on IGS and that player has no recourse to a defence that this was OOC information?

They're linked, IC, and there is nothing that can be done about it?

*snip*

Cosmo

Of course if someone wants to play two unconnected characters then they should be allowed to do so.

But it's slightly different when someone:

a) only uses that character to support their main from behind a neutral facade
b) simultaneously goes on at great length about how using posting proxies is a bad thing

[Jade Constantine]

Well the IGS forum mods seem to agree with me.

Which is interesting given the weight and proportion of votes expressed here.

Perhaps some food for thought. But I do really hope people now think about asking first before using somebody's personal OOC web server as "evidence" between IC roleplayed relations of separate characters.

I understand the Backstage community has expressed an intention to improve RP in Eve right? Well I think a productive first step would be to ensure you don't make the mistake of trying to "win" RP at all costs as (in this case) where the use of OOC web-server data on IGS has been ruled out of bounds by the CCP forum mods.

Maybe time for a little reflection.

[Rodj Blake]

But I do really hope people now think about asking first before using somebody's personal OOC web server as "evidence" between IC roleplayed relations of separate characters.

In an ideal world there wouldn't be any talk of "posting proxies" or "clone jacks" or whatever the term de jour is on the IGS full stop.

If it's wrong to make such an accusation with evidence, then it's certainly wrong to make one without evidence.

[Jade Constantine]

But I do really hope people now think about asking first before using somebody's personal OOC web server as "evidence" between IC roleplayed relations of separate characters.

In an ideal world there wouldn't be any talk of "posting proxies" or "clone jacks" on the IGS full stop.

One can play a part in approaching that ideal world by simply RP'ing with people rather than trying to win RP at all costs (especially when those costs involve corrupting the ic/ooc divide with reference to ooc material on IGS.) - and I hope the Backstage mods will allow this comment to stand now since I am not presenting opinion as fact - I am presenting CCP forum guidelines enforced by their forum mods - as fact.

Thank you.

[Rodj Blake]

But I do really hope people now think about asking first before using somebody's personal OOC web server as "evidence" between IC roleplayed relations of separate characters.

In an ideal world there wouldn't be any talk of "posting proxies" or "clone jacks" on the IGS full stop.

One can play a part in approaching that ideal world by simply RP'ing with people rather than trying to win RP at all costs (especially when those costs involve corrupting the ic/ooc divide with reference to ooc material on IGS.) - and I hope the Backstage mods will allow this comment to stand now since I am not presenting opinion as fact - I am presenting CCP forum guidelines enforced by their forum mods - as fact.

Thank you.

And your view on the second part of my post?

Will you stop throwing around unfounded accusations about posting proxies on the IGS?

[Jade Constantine]

Will you stop throwing around unfounded accusations about posting proxies on the IGS?

Since I have never done "unfounded accusations" - then it would be difficult/impossible to stop. I think you are using a straw man/leading argument/entrapment rhetorical tactic and its against the backstage rules, so please stop it in the interests of civil debate. I do not appreciate being accused of things I have not done.

[Rodj Blake]

Will you stop throwing around unfounded accusations about posting proxies on the IGS?

Since I have never done "unfounded accusations" - that it would be difficult to stop. I think you are using a straw man and its against the backstage rules, please stop it in the interests of civil debate.

Just a week or two back there were a whole bunch of comments from you and an associate of yours about me being indistinguishable from Sabbott.     You've also in the past accused Jakiin of being a proxy.

And then there's the half-dozen or so examples I found in just a few minutes on Google that I posted here: http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1376813/page/2#32

I'll make you an offer - I won't bring up the status of Rosalund again on IGS if I don't see any further comments like those.

[Saede Riordan]

But I do really hope people now think about asking first before using somebody's personal OOC web server as "evidence" between IC roleplayed relations of separate characters.

In an ideal world there wouldn't be any talk of "posting proxies" or "clone jacks" on the IGS full stop.

One can play a part in approaching that ideal world by simply RP'ing with people rather than trying to win RP at all costs

Thank you.

I see no evidence of anyone trying to "win" at RP, I see people presenting their arguments (or trying) only to be stonewalled by you calling them out as "boot licking imperialists, etc" I'd like to hope this is just IC Jade and has nothing to do with your actual mindset as a person but based on this discussion, I'm having that opinion become more and more shaded.

also, you're still presenting opinion as fact.

Since I have never done "unfounded accusations" - then it would be difficult/impossible to stop. I think you are using a straw man and its against the backstage rules, please stop it in the interests of civil debate. I do not appreciate being accused of things I have not done.

ahahahahahahahahahahahaha

ahem, what Rodj said:

Just a week or two back there were a whole bunch of comments from you and an associate of yours about me being indistinguishable from Sabbott. You've also in the past accused Jakiin of being a proxy.

And then there's the half-dozen or so examples I found in just a few minutes or Google that I posted here: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1376813&page=1#30

Jade, you are the queen of unfounded accusations, you look for every possible excuse you can find to accuse someone of things. If they don't fit with your ideals THEY MUST BE SUPPORTING THE AMARRIANS RAEG RAEG RAEG.

No one's trying to put any words in your mouth but your own, perhaps look at your own posting habits before calling out others.

[Jade Constantine]

I think you are both unintentionally misunderstanding the meaning of the word "unfounded" - this typically means groundless ... I am not going to get in the business of refuting your individual examples because I do not believe that backstage is a place where a person may be aggressively challenged on their ic roleplay.

I will simply repeat that I as a player have never used my posting identity to make groundless accussations IC period, and I'm a little offended as a person you would say something like this in an OOC venue.

Nor of course am I presenting opinion as fact. I'm presenting fact as fact. The key fact here is that the answer to the op post has been ruled as "yes" by the CCP forum mods on the IGS while backstage respondants say "no". Perhaps the most fruitful ongoing debate would be how this discordance in opinion came to be?

[Rodj Blake]

I think you are both unintentionally misunderstanding the meaning of the word "unfounded" - this typically means groundless ... I am not going to get in the business of refuting your individual examples because I do not believe that backstage is a place where a person may be aggressively challenged on their ic roleplay.

I will simply repeat that I as a player have never used my posting identity to make groundless accussations IC period, and I'm a little offended as a person you would say something like this in an OOC venue.

OK then, how about substituting "groundless" with "without evidence?"

And I'll repeat my offer to you: I won't bring up the status of Rosalund again on IGS if I don't see any further comments like the ones mentioned earlier.

[Saede Riordan]

I think you are both unintentionally misunderstanding the meaning of the word "unfounded" - this typically means groundless ... I am not going to get in the business of refuting your individual examples because I do not believe that backstage is a place where a person may be aggressively challenged on their ic roleplay.

I will simply repeat that I as a player have never used my posting identity to make groundless accussations IC period, and I'm a little offended as a person you would say something like this in an OOC venue.

And this is the point wherein I will again withdraw from this debate since its becoming clear I will be unable to peacefully have this discussion when you outright refuse to admit something, even when evidence of it is presented.

>_>


I'm out.