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Author Topic: MUH CONFERENCE (Drifters, Bodies, and Hacks Oh My)  (Read 16833 times)

Jocca Quinn

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Re: MUH CONFERENCE (Drifters, Bodies, and Hacks Oh My)
« Reply #75 on: 26 Apr 2015, 14:22 »

At first I was a little wtf? about the loyalties of the capsuleers in question then just went with the desperate times, desperate measures thing.

Oh and to those involved ('cos I don't think its been said enough)

fucking good work
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: MUH CONFERENCE (Drifters, Bodies, and Hacks Oh My)
« Reply #76 on: 26 Apr 2015, 14:27 »

I get the same dissonance feeling like sometimes when CCP has to acknowledge a non RP player for something or other in game and the character name..

It's like

"Today the Amarr Empire and most holy of priests honors "CAPTAIN PENISFACE L33T" for his contributions to Empress Jamyl and the war effort"

"Captain penisface do you have anything to say to the assembled masses of baseliners?"

"GET REKT, JAMYL SUX LOL NOOBS"

I'm not saying you all are anything like this in the slightest, but I did watch the DED video with half 'yay good work' and half 'ccp facepalm'

Wait don't those capsuleers do mean things to the nice people? :P



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Jocca Quinn

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Re: MUH CONFERENCE (Drifters, Bodies, and Hacks Oh My)
« Reply #77 on: 26 Apr 2015, 14:29 »

Quote from: Silas Vitalia
to the nice people?

Nice people?

THIS IS EVE

there are no nice people
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Arnulf Ogunkoya

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Re: MUH CONFERENCE (Drifters, Bodies, and Hacks Oh My)
« Reply #78 on: 26 Apr 2015, 16:02 »

On balance I think featuring PC's in these things is good.

As for the oddities of loyalties. The pirate factions are small governments essentially. What if CONCORD is trying to get them to go legit and stop pirating? That's a bit of a stretch with the Raiders & Sansha I grant you, but I could see a deal being struck with the Cartel, Serpentis & Guristas.
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Arnulf Ogunkoya.

Ayallah

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Re: MUH CONFERENCE (Drifters, Bodies, and Hacks Oh My)
« Reply #79 on: 26 Apr 2015, 17:38 »

Maybe I am too late to answer the question Lyn had but there has been an ISD regularly asking in A'J about what is going on.
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Elmund Egivand

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Re: MUH CONFERENCE (Drifters, Bodies, and Hacks Oh My)
« Reply #80 on: 26 Apr 2015, 20:15 »

I get the same dissonance feeling like sometimes when CCP has to acknowledge a non RP player for something or other in game and the character name..

It's like

"Today the Amarr Empire and most holy of priests honors "CAPTAIN PENISFACE L33T" for his contributions to Empress Jamyl and the war effort"

"Captain penisface do you have anything to say to the assembled masses of baseliners?"

"GET REKT, JAMYL SUX LOL NOOBS"

I'm not saying you all are anything like this in the slightest, but I did watch the DED video with half 'yay good work' and half 'ccp facepalm'

Wait don't those capsuleers do mean things to the nice people? :P

Capsuleer Dementia at its worst.
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Gwen Ikiryo

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Re: MUH CONFERENCE (Drifters, Bodies, and Hacks Oh My)
« Reply #81 on: 26 Apr 2015, 21:25 »

I do really think it's an impressive piece of writing - It's better then most of the stuff CCP puts out these days, at least - and it makes me happy to see recognizeable members of the community involved in pretty high profile publicity stuff. I haven't heard of anything like that happening since the days of Arek'Jaalan. I think it also shows encouraging interest in the roleplay community by the devs.

But... I do have to agree that CCP involving people in the storyline so deeply, not through dev actors or in game means, but through out of game channels that aren't openly advertised in any capacity with the roleplay community... Or, hell, the lore-invested community in general, sets a bit of a bad precedent. I'm not jumping across the rooftops and crying "NEOPOTISM" or anything like that, but it's a fact that not everyone is going to have an equal chance to pitch things to CCP through these means. They might be social-media averse, or have been banned by the third-party owners of the platforms for completely unrelated reasons. They might just be oblivious that they even exist.

I stress I would be totally fine with this were it not like that, but CCP doing stuff like this with people kind-of-privately, especially at a time when they're kinda direly neglecting direct interaction through the platforms they've actually offically sponsered, even in cases where the players involved are making quite a bit of personal effort to a point that might even equal this, well... I mean. I can see why it might make people feel a bit alienated, which is a problem. Players (roleplayers especially) who feel alienated tend to get bitter and make fusses and, well, stop giving CCP money.

I hope everyone remembers the incident that split the OOC/Summit channels. People don't like to be left out - And even the impression of favouritism, correct or incorrect, is enough to get people very upset.

I'm trying to word this carefully, because I REALLY don't want to steal any of the fire in this away from the people who did it - Because again, it is very impressive and they obviously put a ton of effort in and that's super cool! And they don't deserve any critisism for this. But I hope they can see how people who have put tons of effort into other stuff, only for said stuff to be completely ignored without fanfare, might be a bit bummed.
« Last Edit: 26 Apr 2015, 21:29 by Gwen Ikiryo »
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Morwen Lagann

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Re: MUH CONFERENCE (Drifters, Bodies, and Hacks Oh My)
« Reply #82 on: 27 Apr 2015, 00:11 »

Couple things.

Firstly - a lot of claims here seem to me to be founded on what I believe to be a vast misrepresentation of the order things happened here. Now, I could have it wrong, sure - but here's how I understood the order of things:
1- Anslo, Mizhir, Kyber and Kalo put together the initial report, based on what they could see through the ingame model previews for Artemis and Apollo. Additional extrapolation and detail was added by taking what they could see ingame and mapping it to what is known of the human body in the real world. This was discussed actively in Slack (minus Kalo, who doesn't use Slack to my knowledge) among other places, because Anslo was looking for other people with a medical bent (in or out of character) to work with him on it.
2- This report was passed around to a few people to give a quick preview of it, and then it was posted to the IGS. The people on Hydrostatic's recent "Entosis" lore panel were among the people to get a preview, because, iirc, Anslo decided to have it posted during or right after the panel concluded and there was interest in briefly talking about Drifter physiology during the panel.
3- CCP Falcon and/or Affinity and/or Delegate Zero then saw the final version of the report after it was posted to the IGS, either while perusing on their own, or from it being discussed on Slack or Twitter. This is the point that the devs chose to become involved. Not before, as some people seem to be insinuating. They may have seen it being discussed elsewhere before it was released but I certainly don't remember any commentary from them on it that would have been of any real use to Anslo and company.
4- The second report was written at the devs' request with a few hints or vague suggestions at what they might have found while doing an autopsy. This report was the basis of the Scope video last Friday. There was some correspondence at this point - as there should have been, since CCP asked for the second report.

Second - Slack is open to absolutely anyone who wants to use it. It is not a gated community in any sense of the term except by effort put forth on the end of the person wanting to use it. We actually passed the 1,000 member mark this past weekend - #999 and #1,000 were roleplayers, in fact. If you want to get access, you either can use the signup page (if it's working, it's a bit finicky from what I understand) or you can ask a member of the moderation team to send you a direct invite. There are 21 people on this team, which includes several CCP devs, as well as players from a wide variety of ingame entities and backgrounds (including, for reference, at least 2 or 3 users of Backstage - Anslo, Lucas Raholan and myself). All that's needed is an email address to send the invite to. (As far as retaining access to Slack goes, you have to more or less deliberately go out of your way to have that revoked. Kinda like OOC, Summit and Backstage - and I really do stress the deliberately bit.)

Third - has it occurred to you (or anyone else) that perhaps a reason CCP neglects direct interaction through the game itself is because of past bullshit? Not to mention how difficult it is to wade through the tens or hundreds of individuals all simultaneously screaming for attention from the Blue Text God that happens frequently when they hop into a channel - not just the RP community ones? It's pretty bad. If you haven't seen it happen, watch people trying to field questions from Twitch chat during a livestream. That'll give you a good idea of how bad it is. Now imagine it's happening in several channels at once - that's what it's probably like for people like Falcon or Logibro when they hop ingame. The signal to noise ratio is just too low for it to be a good platform for them. Slack, on the other hand, keeps track of people trying to reach you directly and periodically lets you know about it. It also allows you to walk away for several hours - or even close the app or browser - and come back and see what you missed. It is, in many ways, a superior platform to the EVE client.

Fourth - I kind of wanted to leave it alone, but I really can't resist: an MMO roleplayer who is averse to social media and yet wants special attention from CCP for things they're doing? Hilarious. If people are having difficulty coping with not getting attention because they're averse to using the best mediums for getting that attention... yeah, I'm gonna laugh. Sorry-not-sorry - either you want the attention and will do what you need to do to get it, or you don't and won't.


So, tl;dr:
1) CCP didn't get involved until AFTER Anslo and company posted to the IGS with their shit. Anyone trying to twist things to make it look like there was behind the scenes collusion and involvement prior to the release of the first report, knock it the fuck off.
2) It is stupidly easy to get onto Slack. So if you aren't on it and want to be, get off your own lazy ass and do what you need to do to sign up instead of making spurious and unfounded complaints about gated content creation or cool kids' clubs or whatever.
3) CCP doesn't actually get very deeply involved in discussions on Slack with any kind of frequency. Same with Twitter. Slack (and Twitter) just happen to be mediums that are far more conducive to their occasional participation or chiming-in than the EVE client is because it doesn't require them to put 100% of their attention and focus on it to follow and look for things they need or might want to respond to.
4) If someone genuinely wants the attention, they should do what they need to do to get it. That includes their chosen subject matter being interesting to others, as well as finding and using ways to get exposure for said subject matter. If you aren't willing to do that, you're gonna have a bad time.
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Lagging Behind

Morwen's Law:
1) The number of capsuleer women who are bisexual is greater than the number who are lesbian.
2) Most of the former group appear lesbian due to a lack of suitable male partners to go around.
3) The lack of suitable male partners can be summed up in most cases thusly: interested, worth the air they breathe, available; pick two.

Mizhir

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Re: MUH CONFERENCE (Drifters, Bodies, and Hacks Oh My)
« Reply #83 on: 27 Apr 2015, 00:31 »

I'm gonna keep this short as I got limited time.

@Gwen: This was kept in private because it was supposed to a surprise to everyone. Anslo even evaded my questions because he wanted me to get surprised with the scope (hurr hurr no pun intended) of the video.

@Morwen: The first report was submitted to CCP before it got published to players. Not sure if the podcast guys got it before or after CCP. Either way. CCP loves player generated content wether it is RP or not.

@Everyone: I have written an article about how it all happened. Right now I'm waiting for Falcon's response as we want to make sure that things are also correct according to CCP so we avoid more drama.
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: MUH CONFERENCE (Drifters, Bodies, and Hacks Oh My)
« Reply #84 on: 27 Apr 2015, 00:38 »

Thanks for clarifying, you two
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Morwen Lagann

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Re: MUH CONFERENCE (Drifters, Bodies, and Hacks Oh My)
« Reply #85 on: 27 Apr 2015, 00:46 »

@Morwen: The first report was submitted to CCP before it got published to players. Not sure if the podcast guys got it before or after CCP. Either way. CCP loves player generated content wether it is RP or not.

That isn't what Anslo said when I checked with him before posting (he may have misread what I said, or not thought it worth making the distinction), but it's also sort of beside the point I was making - they were still not involved with the actual creation or content of the first report beyond, as you say here, getting a preview of it.
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Lagging Behind

Morwen's Law:
1) The number of capsuleer women who are bisexual is greater than the number who are lesbian.
2) Most of the former group appear lesbian due to a lack of suitable male partners to go around.
3) The lack of suitable male partners can be summed up in most cases thusly: interested, worth the air they breathe, available; pick two.

Anskek

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Re: MUH CONFERENCE (Drifters, Bodies, and Hacks Oh My)
« Reply #86 on: 27 Apr 2015, 00:52 »

We did NOT submit the first report to CCP before publishing...I think. We published, then CCP got interested.
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Gwen Ikiryo

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Re: MUH CONFERENCE (Drifters, Bodies, and Hacks Oh My)
« Reply #87 on: 27 Apr 2015, 01:26 »

I'll repeat that I really wasn't saying anyone was actually doing something exclusive or actually being benefiting from favourtism. I don't think that at all. I was saying that, when this sort of thing goes on over a platform that only 5% or so of the playerbase (or in this case, playerbase subgroup) people are kinda gonna jump to unfortunate conclusions. CCP has a super-duper-mega bad track record when it comes to picking out people they like and involving them more deeply/giving them special boons, and a lot of people are probably quick to assume the worst because of that.

And, like, it's easy to say, "If you want attention, you should know where to get it!" But, though it can be difficult to appreciate, it is sometimes surprisingly difficult for someone out of a loop - Not knowing the right people, not being around at the right times - to get in the loop. Even if the loop is actually very friendly and open once you know where it is. So, I think CCP should be as open as possible about the wells it draws from for these sorts of things.

Again! Please nobody get mad at me for running this thing through the mud, because that's totally not my intention, honest. It's just, well, obvious that some people are kinda upset, that's all. And that should be addressed, not met with cries of, "Too bad!" That doesn't help anybody.
« Last Edit: 27 Apr 2015, 01:28 by Gwen Ikiryo »
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Lyn Farel

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Re: MUH CONFERENCE (Drifters, Bodies, and Hacks Oh My)
« Reply #88 on: 27 Apr 2015, 02:33 »

Gwen nailed it.
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Jekaterine

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Re: MUH CONFERENCE (Drifters, Bodies, and Hacks Oh My)
« Reply #89 on: 27 Apr 2015, 03:40 »

[mod]Enough of this bullshit. By that I don't mean the reports or the work going into it. That gets several thumbs up.[/mod]
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