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EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Mizhara on 27 Dec 2010, 12:24

Title: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Mizhara on 27 Dec 2010, 12:24: I thought this particular IGS post might be worth a 120+ days Necroposting. (http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1438426) (Then I realized I necro'd the entirely wrong thread, but that's a whole different facepalm issue.)

Basically, we've chased off a fellow from the RP community. How? Well, someone made a few... ambiguous statements in a thread of his that could be construed as an incoming wardec or possibly just a Red status. After reading the thread, I've also heard of others being threatened with petitions (for Harassment I assume) if they wardec him/his corp as a result of his Sansha Incursion activities.

Apparently a wardec or other in-space consequences for RP standpoints doesn't hit the spot for some players.

The reason I'm necroing this thread (attempted to, but failed miserably) is quite simply because I'm curious to see if things have changed in the time-period between the OP and the time of writing this post. Are in-space consequences for RP still in fashion or is it something that's frowned upon?

Give us your opinions on the matter, people. It'll be interesting to see if things have changed.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Louella Dougans on 27 Dec 2010, 12:33: I read that thread, couldn't figure out what was going on, went v0v
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Ghost Hunter on 27 Dec 2010, 12:34: I largely believe it's people who aren't familiar with the concept of war decs being started over purely moral based reasoning.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Seriphyn on 27 Dec 2010, 12:36: Guy's probably a little on the younger side.

As for a wardec, sometimes I see it as a little pointless. If Seriphyn wanted to make a dent against Sansha's Nation, ratting in Stain, taking anti-Sansha missions and running Sansha plexes will do FAR more good, fiction-wise, than inconsequentially blowing up True Slave Foundations pilots. Unless your intention was to disrupt the operations of a certain group of capsuleers, such as mining in a system you don't want them to.

In the end, one of the biggest reasons the capsuleers are so important to the empires with their borders is because of PvE, not the fact that they blow each other up.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Borza on 27 Dec 2010, 13:28: OTOH PvE is shit and pointless. And one can make the argument that capsuleer loyalists are a far bigger asset to a faction than almost any number of [NPC] standard ships.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Kazzzi on 27 Dec 2010, 13:40: But an enemy capsuleer can kill lots of your own faction's npcs. So shouldn't we as capsuleers, the only people who can really slow down another capsuleer, focus more on enemy capsuleers?
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Merdaneth on 27 Dec 2010, 14:07: I totally had no clue what that was about. Then again, haven't read the earlier thread(s)...

People have different expectation from RP. And many of us like to spin our story as we like it, and sometimes war isn't included in that picture.

However, it seems that some parties might be more trigger happy than others. I can't say I've ever caused a war dec myself, and I would think I'd be plenty abrasive to some people.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Borza on 27 Dec 2010, 14:36: People tend not to bother wardeccing 2-man corps Merdaneth... Not worth the isk.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Merdaneth on 27 Dec 2010, 14:44: Quote from: Borza on 27 Dec 2010, 14:36
People tend not to bother wardeccing 2-man corps Merdaneth... Not worth the isk.

Thought we were talking war-decs for RP reasons here. In that case the odd 2mil or so to dec a corp is nothing, right?
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Casiella on 27 Dec 2010, 14:46: Wait, somebody is leaving something because of wardecs?

That sounds like a victory for his opponents.

I'm sorry that whoever this is really feels hurt, but this is EVE. Non-consensual PVP happens, and people may shoot you for any reason or no reason. That includes RP, ISK, or lulz.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Seriphyn on 27 Dec 2010, 14:46: Quote from: Kazzzi on 27 Dec 2010, 13:40
But an enemy capsuleer can kill lots of your own faction's npcs. So shouldn't we as capsuleers, the only people who can really slow down another capsuleer, focus more on enemy capsuleers?

Hm, yeah, this could work also.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Ken on 27 Dec 2010, 14:55: Quote from: Casiella on 27 Dec 2010, 14:46
Wait, somebody is leaving something because of wardecs?

That sounds like a victory for his opponents.

I'm sorry that whoever this is really feels hurt, but this is EVE. Non-consensual PVP happens, and people may shoot you for any reason or no reason. That includes RP, ISK, or lulz.
It's EVE. RP, pewpew, trading... none of it is consensual and we've all had our party shat on at one time or another. (I once lost ~700m ISK in a suicide gank because I was being a dumb newb.) You either HTFU or GTFO.

This individual has opted for Option 2.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Louella Dougans on 27 Dec 2010, 15:10: with game mechanics as they are, there are a number of things.

Fixed, in-space assets - POS and stations, are things that wars actively threaten.
Mining is the only activity that can be really shut down by a war.

The rest of the time, then there are so many things that come into play, that a war can be rather pointless.

3rd party covops, 3rd party Guardians, 3rd party logistics and income. Alts, 2nd accounts, whatever. Intel, money, material is provided without any real payment, because who pays their alts?

E.g. Corp A has ships and isk provided by unknown Corp X. What would anyone have to gain by declaring against them?

With so many things to avoid consequences for those that know how to use them, then it means the opponents have to want to fight, have a reason to, inorder for there to be a war, instead of lots of evasion.

Unless they don't know all the means of evasion, in which case it's a war against the less competent, which could be a turkeyshoot rather than a war.

So... v0v.

Wars are good at being able to clear out POS that you don't want to be there, and against less skilled/crafty players. Against anyone/anything else, it could be an exercise in frustration and pointlessness. Who gets bored first, loses :\
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Senn Typhos on 27 Dec 2010, 15:12: I don't understand this. Its happened twice in my time on EVE, or at least twice that I've seen, and its been the same thing both times...

Someone jumps on the IGS, says something they ought not say, someone else takes offense ICly, and take military action. The response of the offender is always the same; they freak out, and seem to not understand how someone could ever dare to wardec a fellow RPer.

I don't know why RPers think they're exempt from responsibility from their actions... like, somehow, saying what you've done was "RP" is a magic phrase like "social experiment" that erases your transgressions and makes you immune to repercussions.

When you talk on IGS, people listen. They might not respond, they might not like what you say, but your words are sitting there for quite a long time, being observed by other sets of eyes.

Shockingly enough, theres an

IN GAME MECHANIC

Which allows anyone, anywhere to take sanctioned military action against you and your corp, as long as they can afford the wardec costs. So lets put the pieces of the puzzle together; someone with more funds and resources than you, has the opportunity to, at any time, fundamentally change your gameplay based on what you said on IGS. I'm not saying its the answer to everyone's problems. I'm just saying, I take no pity on people that basically ask for a wardec, let alone when those people are devastated to discover that other RPers won't excuse their actions on the grounds that its RP.

Actually, thats the reason you're getting wardec'd.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Kazzzi on 27 Dec 2010, 15:23: Jesmine is my new hero btw
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Inara Subaka on 27 Dec 2010, 15:47: Quote from: Kazzzi on 27 Dec 2010, 15:23
Jesmine is my new hero btw

This. What you RP has consequences ingame/space and what you do ingame/space has RP consequences (both good and bad in both directions). If you're not willing to stand by your ideals (IC ideals) by fighting back or hiring someone to do it for you (obviously, ingame fighting, no meatspace door knocking), then your character obviously doesn't believe in their professed ideals and those you're flying with are probably better off without the dead-weight.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Gottii on 27 Dec 2010, 16:10: These are some grade A epic tears
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Vikarion on 27 Dec 2010, 16:25: If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Z.Sinraali on 27 Dec 2010, 16:39: Ceteris paribus, it is sub-optimal to have fewer players in the RP corner of the sandbox.

That is all I have to add to this discussion.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Seriphyn on 27 Dec 2010, 16:52: EVE Online, where only Internet Tough Guys are allowed, eh? :roll:
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Syylara/Yaansu on 27 Dec 2010, 17:06: Quote from: Seriphyn on 27 Dec 2010, 16:52
EVE Online, where only Internet Tough Guys are allowed, eh? :roll:

Internet spaceships are sureus biznis.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: John Revenent on 27 Dec 2010, 17:10: RP War = Best War!
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Borza on 27 Dec 2010, 17:17: Quote from: Syylara/Yaansu on 27 Dec 2010, 17:06
Quote from: Seriphyn on 27 Dec 2010, 16:52
EVE Online, where only Internet Tough Guys are allowed, eh? :roll:

Internet spaceships are sureus biznis.

Almost as srs as spaceship cyberz
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Alain Colcer on 27 Dec 2010, 17:19: he lost his virginity, don't worry he'll get over it and comeback......emoraging only lasts for a bit
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Casiella on 27 Dec 2010, 17:21: Eh. It's not ITG syndrome, Lord knows. It's that this is how the game is played. If you don't like it, either find another angle or play something else.

And yes, all else being equal, we want more RPers rather than fewer. But this isn't equal: RPers must recognize that IC actions have IC consequences.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Silver Night on 27 Dec 2010, 17:25: RP being consensual stops at the undock button.

I think the potential for in-space consequences for IC shenanigans are one of the things that makes Eve as fun to RP in as it is.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Senn Typhos on 27 Dec 2010, 17:44: Quote from: Seriphyn on 27 Dec 2010, 16:52
EVE Online, where only Internet Tough Guys are allowed, eh? :roll:

This is the only reaction more annoying than the one presented by Stalin.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Vikarion on 27 Dec 2010, 18:53: Quote from: Seriphyn on 27 Dec 2010, 16:52
EVE Online, where only Internet Tough Guys are allowed, eh? :roll:

If you want to be treated as a nice guy in Eve, just as in real life, be one. It's not assured, of course, but if you decide to start marching around in allegiance to the Blood Raiders or the Rogue Drones or whatnot, expect people to do something about it.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Silas Vitalia on 27 Dec 2010, 20:08: Quote from: Vikarion on 27 Dec 2010, 18:53
Quote from: Seriphyn on 27 Dec 2010, 16:52
EVE Online, where only Internet Tough Guys are allowed, eh? :roll:

If you want to be treated as a nice guy in Eve, just as in real life, be one. It's not assured, of course, but if you decide to start marching around in allegiance to the Blood Raiders or the Rogue Drones or whatnot, expect people to do something about it.

Correct. I do hope some of the people deccing this guy take a brief OOC to let him know what's up for courtesy's sake as he seems to not quite get it, but yes, you make public statements supporting x,y,z you best expect people who hate x,y,z to shoot at you.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Bacchanalian on 05 Jan 2011, 20:20: Quote from: Gottii on 27 Dec 2010, 16:10
These are some grade A epic tears

Rage like that is once a month at best, good stuff. 9/10.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 07 Jan 2011, 11:24: Rule #10: Only provoke the enemy when you are prepared for the wardec.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Milo Caman on 07 Jan 2011, 11:58: Quote from: Silas Vitalia on 27 Dec 2010, 20:08

Correct. I do hope some of the people deccing this guy take a brief OOC to let him know what's up for courtesy's sake as he seems to not quite get it, but yes, you make public statements supporting x,y,z you best expect people who hate x,y,z to shoot at you.

I'm less than Sympathetic:

Quote
friendly warning
From: StalinGrad6
Sent: 2010.12.28 16:52
To: Milo Caman,

your words mean nothing.

i left that business of this RP crap and i wash my hands of it, permanently.

your threats are wasted words.

right now im in hiding, kindly respect my privacy and do not send me any more messages.

goodbye, and happy fucking new year.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Syylara/Yaansu on 07 Jan 2011, 20:52: But then he posts in the Capsuleer Dossiers (http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1444383) thread. :roll:
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Senn Typhos on 07 Jan 2011, 21:15: See, here's my problem with everyone that claims we're being "too hard" on a young player:

If he had made an innocent mistake, then apologized for it, and was ridiculed by older players in a ruthless manner, yes, that would be cruel. But he didn't do that.

What he did was make a stupid error in judgement, defend it way too vehemently for his own good, throw as many swears as his young mind could muster into a livejournal-style raegquit post, then make an equally terrible post to try to recover ground, then raegquit again. And THEN he continued to not-have-quitted.

Its very simple. If you want to avoid cannonball wounds, don't stand directly in front of a lit cannon.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: BloodBird on 08 Jan 2011, 08:54: So, let's get a little history down first. Years ago, I was a RP noob. Of the type that did not realize the divide between IC and OOC. I had lurked around on a spesific forum for the good ol' Baldurs Gate II game, for well over a year before I registered and started out. My first character was effectively a hard-liner Paladin, and I ended up god-modding a bit and bad-mouthing the 'evil' guys OOC over their choice of RP avenue.

I was promptly put in my place and 'shown the error' of my ways, as such. I wised up. I appologized, in honestly, and I woved to improve. I effectively redeemed myself and had alot of fun. Today, I look back at the following year of RP fondly and with some degree of longing, I will admit.

Then along came EVE Online, and some time later so did I. About 1.5 to 2 years into my EVE 'career' I started RP'ing seriously with my main character, perhaps, a year before FW came out?

Anyhow.

While RP'ing on my oldest toon is hell of a lot of fun, when I do, I'm playing this game at this point mostly for the RP and the PVP, combined with some PVE like mining and general industry for the flavor, right? So when I wanted to explore how it was like to be an Amarrian Imperialist and a 'proper' religiously convinced reformer, I had to create a new toon. I planned it out for about a month, laid down all the groundwork and eventually created Jesmine Kyriel.

A year of alot of fun passes by and here we have Stalingrad6, who appears to have happily strolled into the same mistake I did years ago. After I decced him on RP grounds the only person who acted civilized about it all apart from myself was his CEO of the time. After starting the counter on the vote I mailed said CEO with my intentions and my terms for peace, due IC reasons.

While he was rather annoyed at first because this was the third or fourth time someone decced him over Stalin's RP set-up, he was grateful for the warning and promptly removed Stalin's roles and prepared to kick him. Soon there after Stalin retracted his BR loyalties and the rest is history. The war never even went live.

At this point, I was somewhat horrified to find I was on the oposite end of the divide I had been on years ago – now I was the one slapping a noob for his sillyness in RP and he was the guy heavily out of line. Only problem is, evne after talking to him OOC it won't appear that he's learned anything, or taken any advice. During our chat I tried to underline how RP 'works' (the IC/OOC divide among others things) and I offered him the link to this site. It will appear he has not yet made an account here, this is a shame because I think he could be an addition to the RP 'community' if only he wised-up and don't act so hostile all the time. He reacts to RP opposition and any advice with... well, we all have seen his responses to most, I'm sure.

So with history-lesson out of the way, the thing now is; I still have the logg from our convo saved to my drive. I wanted to post it here as I feel it would clear up a few questions people here may have about him. I've not done so yet because I mailed him after, asking if it was cool with him if I did post it here. I was never answered. Despite that fact I still want to share this as I feel it's important that we, as RP'ers, better understand how to deal with people who 'stumble' in RP as badly as Stalingrad6 has. I for one would like more, not less, RP'ers.

What do people think of this?
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Bong-cha Jones on 08 Jan 2011, 09:05: I'm a fan of second chances and I was seriously considering trying to recruit this guy to give him a safe-ish environment to learn the ropes. Until the frothing rage spasms. That suggests a guy who will be difficult to work with on any level, and while I'm all for helping out, I don't have a lot of time for hand-holding of that degree. More rp'ers would be a good thing, though, especially Federal ones.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Mizhara on 08 Jan 2011, 09:06: Go ahead. Post the logs.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Milo Caman on 08 Jan 2011, 10:01: Considering the email I sent was a polite IC warning telling him not to claim he'd been killing Serpentis publicly, I really don't think the rage mail was justified.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: BloodBird on 08 Jan 2011, 10:07: Quote from: Milo Caman on 08 Jan 2011, 10:01
Considering the email I sent was a polite IC warning telling him not to claim he'd been killing Serpentis publicly, I really don't think the rage mail was justified.

Most likely it wasn't. Jesmine too got 3 rather heated mails effectively demanding a chat after all this. The only reasons I'm not sharing all of this yet is A) I'm not sure the mods will agree and B) I'm not sure it won't degenerate into all-out character assassination.

I'll wait for a bit more to hear some more oppinons for what to do.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: BloodBird on 09 Jan 2011, 05:42: While the convo between Aria and Syll is interesting I would like to thank you kindly for effectively de-railing the tread. No really, well done.

*ahem* Anyhow, I'm trying to get a hold of the guy again to talk to him again about the whole 'leaving my info in the dossier' thing, because I think he may want to RP (hell, it's fun) he's just pretty much hauling the extensive weight of his own noobishness around while doing so and having a tendency to kick things over as they get in his way, regardless of what that is. Or try, anyhow.

I will also ask to get a clear yes/no answer from him regarding 'make this public yes/no' question about the loggs. I'll post it or not, based in that answer.

In the meantime your thoughts on the matter is facinating, even if it's mostly 'is this shit legal' more than 'do I think you should do it' :eek:
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Misan on 09 Jan 2011, 09:37: [mod]Split the discussion about EULA chatlogs and such and moved it into non-RP EVE discussion. You can find the new topic here: http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=1599.0. Apologies if your post got moved and you felt like it fit more in this thread.[/mod]
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Bataav on 09 Jan 2011, 11:00: Quote from: BloodBird on 09 Jan 2011, 05:42
...I'm trying to get a hold of the guy again to talk to him again about the whole 'leaving my info in the dossier' thing, because I think he may want to RP (hell, it's fun)...
I think you're right.

I have a trade alt who's talked to him a few times when he was first RPing his drone tech research. I'd been in contact with him before, during and after the infamous ragequit and my understanding of his situation is that he's just inexperienced with RP in general and was ignorant about the reprocussions of his particular path in EVE.

When I first aligned myself with the Intaki secessionists I certainly didn't fully realise the finer details of the situation. It's something we all learn as we go along. Stalingrad6 just needs to do the same.

My understanding was that he was never ragequitting the game - only the active RP aspect of it found on IGS. That said BloodBird is right. His post in the "dossier" topic clearly shows he's an RPer at heart (as he just can't stop himself) and so maybe a couple of friendly mails will help him.

I can always have my alt ask after him too. He's raged about IGS to me before so I'm sure he'd open up if I asked.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 09 Jan 2011, 11:14: IGSrage is SNAFU for roleplayers, no?

And hell, yea, I had no frigging idea what I was getting myself into when I first went "wow sounds cool" on the Oath of Loyalty to the Minmatar Republic.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Milo Caman on 09 Jan 2011, 13:01: Well, that was a waste of time.

[spoiler]Milo Caman > Hey
StalinGrad6 > you want chat?
StalinGrad6 > hlo :P
Milo Caman > Bear with me. In a fight. Give me. 5 Minutes to resolve this.
StalinGrad6 > kk take ur time.
Milo Caman > Alright
StalinGrad6 > k
Milo Caman > Just wanted to be clear that the IC stuff is just that. IC
StalinGrad6 > i kno.
Milo Caman > Threats, Decs and stuff will come your way as a result of stuff said, that's just EVE
StalinGrad6 > i kno.
Milo Caman > And getting angry about it n' stuff kinda makes you look daft
StalinGrad6 > dont care.
Milo Caman > Well you seem to when people point it out IC
Milo Caman > http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=1561.0
StalinGrad6 > ppl think what they want to think. its thier problem, not mine, so i dont give a **** what ppl think, its thier problem.
Milo Caman > Well it often becomes yours when they wardec you because of you reactions
StalinGrad6 > not my ****ing problem.
StalinGrad6 > if they have issues, they have to get the F over it.
Milo Caman > As I said, when they dec you, and rage, it's your problem as well.
Milo Caman > You have to understand, in EVE, reputation is currency, and you're presently a laughing stock.
StalinGrad6 > its why im going to presently delete this rediculous fuckfest of a character after ive done something.
StalinGrad6 > start over.
Milo Caman > You know, if you sat down and actually listened and thought before doing stuff, you mgiht be able to recover stuff
Milo Caman > read that thread I linked. You feature in it quite a bit.
StalinGrad6 > yeah i "feature" in it. as a laugh. a joke. a play. a toy. i dont want any fucking part of it. ive had enough of this abuse. i do something and suddenly i have 10 000 reasons not to play this game.
Milo Caman > The thread isn't abuse
Milo Caman > It's people discussing your situation
StalinGrad6 > which i take offense to.
Milo Caman > You have to understand that people don't sit behind their keyboard cackling at your failure or anything
Milo Caman > It's a level headed discussion
StalinGrad6 > i hate these damned humans.
Milo Caman > On the Internet, no-one knows you're a dog.
StalinGrad6 > nobody cares if im human so what does it matter?
Milo Caman > But seriously, Don;t let shit get personal, because it isn't. You've just made yourself a bit of a target by the way you've reated to people
Milo Caman > *reacted
StalinGrad6 > thats thier problem. if they want an apology or a retraction, they ASK for it like human beings. that way i wont take it personally and do things the way I do out of game.
Milo Caman > They're not asking for an apology.
Milo Caman > Most people seem to feel sorry for you.
StalinGrad6 > oh really? heh. i seriously doubt that. nobodys ever done that before.
Milo Caman > Don't give me all that self-pitying bullshit.
Milo Caman > Read the thread, then think about what's been said.
Milo Caman > I've gotta head out. Laters
StalinGrad6 > goodbye
[/spoiler]
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: StalinGrad6 on 09 Jan 2011, 13:23: So this is how i go huh?

Shot down both IC and OOC.

Milo, i appreciate your help but its quite obvious i can do nothing to remedy this situation with or without help. your efforts were not a waste of time and seriously i thank you for your help, but im so agitated im deaf to voices of reason.

thats over now, ive calmed down some.

ever since this stuff started ive recieved almost daily death threats.

i tell them to read my bio. and its over.

but i'll tell you one thing.

youre right about me not leaving RP permanently. i got ONE little storyline left in me.

All that rage? thats because you people were screwing me over. i plan EVERYTHING i say or do when it comes to EvE, unfortunately my "plan" didnt expect so many people to automatically shoot me down.

so thus, the thread was shut down due to nobody listening to me anymore.

but that will change. i got one more little thread left in me. i know better than anyone it will do NOTHING to help my main. but one things for sure.

i think you'll like it.

if not, i leave EvE online with a legacy.

as the worst RPer in history.

either way, i leave a mark. its not a good one, but its somming you'll remember.

im getting irritated again. you'll have to exuse me for not continuing, but i need to stop before i say something truly horrible.

good day. for now.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Senn Typhos on 09 Jan 2011, 13:33: ^ Okay, see that?

That is EXACTLY why I don't care who wardecs these people, or how hard.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: StalinGrad6 on 09 Jan 2011, 13:40: *braces for impact*

let the bashing begin.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Milo Caman on 09 Jan 2011, 13:44: Quote from: The Bad RPer on 09 Jan 2011, 13:40
*braces for impact*

let the bashing begin.

Honestly, whilst there are people around baying for your blood, I really don't think anyone here is 'out to get you' in an OOC sense.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Casiella on 09 Jan 2011, 14:14: I think that the core misunderstanding here is feelings between character and between players.

Characters are who we play, much like the characters in a movie. The bad guy and good guy in a cowboy movie might have a shootout, but when the cameras shut off, the actors dust themselves off and go have dinner together.

That's what we mean about "IC" and "OOC", and you shouldn't feel persecuted because people shoot at each other in-game. :)
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Arnulf Ogunkoya on 09 Jan 2011, 14:41: I, the player, have a debate ongoing here with people who are playing Sansha loyalists. I feel that the Sansha are one of the few unredeemably bad groups in the game. Most of them disagree. But I bear no ill will toward the players for that.

It is, after all, only a game.

My character, on the other hand, hates Sansha and Blooders with a passion. If it was possible IC to kill them permanently I would cheerfully. Doesn't affect my attitude to the players one bit though. They are not the characters they play (or at least I hope they aren't).
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 09 Jan 2011, 14:52: Quote from: The Bad RPer on 09 Jan 2011, 13:40
*braces for impact*

let the bashing begin.
Listen, mate.

The first I heard of you was in this thread. I have not for a second thought you are joke, I have not been bashing you, I have not done anything to you. All I've said about you above or anywhere is "I don't think anyone should publish chatlogs with him without his consent". I am not your enemy. I have no interest in putting you down or bashing you. So I'd appreciate if it you did not insist that I do. Thanks.

Fact is this: in EVE people wardec each other for RP, and it is not always with consent. That's how this game works. In this game we explode each other over sheer fantasy, and then talk about it in a friendly manner in pub meets after the fact. I've been in a war with the same guys for something like six years over nothing but RP, and we get along as players just fine despite. A lot of other games don't work like that. You assumed EVE didn't either, and made a mistake, provoking a wardec you were not prepared for. Big deal? That does not make you a bad RPer, and it does not make you laughing-stock. It just makes you a newbie, and, mate, we were all newbies once.

So: welcome to EVE, welcome to Backstage. If you want to start a new character, by all means do it. If we can help, let us know. If you want to ask about something that still bothers you, ask. But just be assured you do not have to start it all over to start anew, and that most of us don't think you suck, and would altogether rather be friends than bash you.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: John Revenent on 09 Jan 2011, 16:45: ^^ What Elsebeth said.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: BloodBird on 09 Jan 2011, 17:21: As permission has been granted, here is the logg. As I see Stal himself made it here, this is where we start helping out.

Remember this place Stal, for in several years you will look back at many fun moments in EVE RP.

Or so I hope. You need any advice or questions answered, go ahead and ask.

By all means go explore the site too, much usefull info here.

[spoiler]---------------------------------------------------------------

Channel ID: -17481493
Channel Name: Private Chat (alone)
Listener: Jesmine Kyriel
Session started: 2010.12.27 21:18:09
---------------------------------------------------------------

[ 2010.12.27 21:18:21 ] StalinGrad6 > ah hello there :)
[ 2010.12.27 21:18:35 ] Jesmine Kyriel > Hello Stal.
[ 2010.12.27 21:18:44 ] StalinGrad6 > im in a slightly less pissed off mood so im easy to talk to and not so hostile anymore, so speak away :)
[ 2010.12.27 21:18:44 ] Jesmine Kyriel > I do believe you have issues we amy work out.
[ 2010.12.27 21:19:07 ] Jesmine Kyriel > Well, let's start with your last maif from 1 minute ago.
[ 2010.12.27 21:19:20 ] Jesmine Kyriel > You don't do wars, do you?
[ 2010.12.27 21:19:41 ] StalinGrad6 > fuck no im a miner. rp is pure for the rp. ppl take me too seriously.
[ 2010.12.27 21:20:04 ] Jesmine Kyriel > That's jsut he thing. do you realize what Roleplay is?
[ 2010.12.27 21:20:52 ] Jesmine Kyriel > I believe your underlying issue with the rest of is, you don't really realize what your doing. I did the same mistake soem years ago.
[ 2010.12.27 21:21:04 ] Jesmine Kyriel > I could tell you about that, if you wish?
[ 2010.12.27 21:21:27 ] StalinGrad6 > no. im experiencing it right now. i dont need a relapse.
[ 2010.12.27 21:22:16 ] Jesmine Kyriel > Guess not then. I'd like to underline that this chat is ooc. So, no 'heretical Sani scum' things.
[ 2010.12.27 21:22:50 ] StalinGrad6 > im not a bllod raider.
[ 2010.12.27 21:22:52 ] Jesmine Kyriel > If you want to ask me something, feel free to go ahead.
[ 2010.12.27 21:22:58 ] Jesmine Kyriel > no, not in real life, your not
[ 2010.12.27 21:23:19 ] Jesmine Kyriel > But your toon went out and publicly declared that HE was. That's how you and I met.
[ 2010.12.27 21:23:26 ] Jesmine Kyriel > rather, my toon adn your toon
[ 2010.12.27 21:23:49 ] StalinGrad6 > ic im not a blood raider either. it was just a ruse to get these raider idiots to belioeve i was sincere. it worked and i got what i wanted.
[ 2010.12.27 21:24:33 ] Jesmine Kyriel > yes, but there si the problem - it fooled the raiders themselves and thus also others. How could they know it was a ruse unless you had gone out and informed them from an IC point of view?
[ 2010.12.27 21:25:03 ] Jesmine Kyriel > all the guys that bashed you for 'joining the sani sabik' did so because from their POW you raelly did. They did not like it
[ 2010.12.27 21:25:24 ] StalinGrad6 > i was about to acually but my connection rather ditzy at the moment.... my pc seems like its overheating fr some reason.... i'll do it as soon as i can.
[ 2010.12.27 21:26:25 ] Jesmine Kyriel > I'm not sure it will help, but feel free. Problem is about apparences, really. You think they will turn around adn trust you after what's happened?
[ 2010.12.27 21:26:39 ] Jesmine Kyriel > anyway, let's talk about something else for a little bit.
[ 2010.12.27 21:26:47 ] StalinGrad6 > suit urself.
[ 2010.12.27 21:28:16 ] Jesmine Kyriel > You claim you don't do wars, but how does that reflect your rather public display, being as... agressive about things, as you were, on the IGS? You attracted alot of enemies, msotly if not totally due to your toon's actions.
[ 2010.12.27 21:28:50 ] Jesmine Kyriel > Did you not think anyone would declare on you, jsut becasue you don't declare on others? Sadly EVE is a non-concensual game.
[ 2010.12.27 21:29:08 ] StalinGrad6 > you think i dont know that? look,
[ 2010.12.27 21:29:42 ] StalinGrad6 > ive stated repeatedly im no fighter. im a miner and a scientis. if anybody actually had any sense of decency they would figure out what i do is purely for my research.
[ 2010.12.27 21:31:03 ] Jesmine Kyriel > People and/or characters don't allways care about that. take my toon as an example. She reacted to your declaration becasue she hates blood raiders, you reacted agressively, she took that as an insult on top of your alignment now and here we are
[ 2010.12.27 21:31:07 ] Jesmine Kyriel > a possible war-dec
[ 2010.12.27 21:31:21 ] Jesmine Kyriel > your a miner and researcher, that's fine
[ 2010.12.27 21:31:40 ] Jesmine Kyriel > but you got yourself enemies who wanted to hurt YOU, not as fine, I expect :)
[ 2010.12.27 21:32:53 ] StalinGrad6 > people are hypocrites. another part of being a scientist is understanding humans: predictability. i had it all planned out. i expected and correctly predicted hostile action and i planned accordingly. sadly, i was ignored.
[ 2010.12.27 21:32:58 ] StalinGrad6 > as i usually am.
[ 2010.12.27 21:33:17 ] Jesmine Kyriel > How did you plan accordingly?
[ 2010.12.27 21:33:37 ] Jesmine Kyriel > If oyu did not include 'fight a war-dec' to counter the reactions
[ 2010.12.27 21:34:42 ] StalinGrad6 > i did include that. but unfortunately im not quit prepared for it. but i did do my research. compiled lists, did cross checks, routed entire strategies. sadly it came to nothing as i was instead-ignored.
[ 2010.12.27 21:35:34 ] Jesmine Kyriel > Yuor CEO told me this would have been the 4th war in 2 months, and you have bin in and out of your corp 3-4 times allready.
[ 2010.12.27 21:35:46 ] Jesmine Kyriel > Did you never consider why people acted as hostile to you?
[ 2010.12.27 21:36:17 ] StalinGrad6 > yes i did, but i didnt plan on that heavy of a reaction.
[ 2010.12.27 21:36:25 ] StalinGrad6 > i was quite shocked really.
[ 2010.12.27 21:37:25 ] Jesmine Kyriel > I'm betting your CEO was too. She was rather 'WTF? Again?'
[ 2010.12.27 21:37:59 ] Jesmine Kyriel > I'd be too, I think. So... you say your 'done with the RP crap' - you planning on quiting entierly over this?
[ 2010.12.27 21:38:33 ] StalinGrad6 > the first one was Drake Arson, sansha loyalist. he was just being annoying. hthe second was from a griefer corp, one i have a history with. the fourth was Drake again, why i dont know.
[ 2010.12.27 21:38:57 ] StalinGrad6 > and yes i am. entirely? no. im just gonna lay low for a while and start on a new character.
[ 2010.12.27 21:39:00 ] Jesmine Kyriel > I'm not sure about the griefer corp
[ 2010.12.27 21:39:27 ] Jesmine Kyriel > but I blieve I can shed light on Drake Arson - much the same reason I planned ot dec your corp.
[ 2010.12.27 21:39:33 ] StalinGrad6 > Lonetrek Salvage and Scrap. a word of warning, if u come to caldari pace avoid them at any cost.
[ 2010.12.27 21:39:57 ] StalinGrad6 > why drake?
[ 2010.12.27 21:40:36 ] Jesmine Kyriel > I'll keep that in mind. As for drake, he likely decced you twice because from an IC-pow you were A) anti-Nation and B) you claimed to be developing somethign nasty, presumably to hurt his faction of choice
[ 2010.12.27 21:41:10 ] StalinGrad6 > you missed one. point 3: to annoy me. which he succeeded.
[ 2010.12.27 21:42:00 ] Jesmine Kyriel > Perhaps, that however is only your oppinion, because he DID annoy you. likely he hoped you would have a cruor and be in space, to blow it up and claim to have twarted your plans. Personally my toon jsut wanted you to abandon the blooders and to get
[ 2010.12.27 21:42:19 ] Jesmine Kyriel > evicted from corp as 'punishment'. A tangible retribution for your IC choices
[ 2010.12.27 21:42:53 ] StalinGrad6 > drakes wardecs were long before i started all this, so i doubt it.
[ 2010.12.27 21:43:53 ] Jesmine Kyriel > Well, then I don't know, but neither can I speak for him, so it don't much matter. Wha amtters is you seem to take personal offense to how your beign treated by other RP'ers in-character.
[ 2010.12.27 21:44:21 ] Jesmine Kyriel > If you wanted less flak, there are ways you could fix that IC too. It's not hard adn you won't need ot re-sycle your toon or whatever.
[ 2010.12.27 21:45:04 ] StalinGrad6 > EvE is my refuge from the world right now. i still hve a lot of anger and violence stored up from my old job. i come to eve to relax. since eve is my relaxation, i take offence because theyre ruining my peace.
[ 2010.12.27 21:46:05 ] Jesmine Kyriel > but, that's exactly why you migt want ot think over how your RP affects others, then yorself. All actions have reactions. You can have a peaceful existance in EVE all you want, but you may be better served not getting more enemies
[ 2010.12.27 21:46:17 ] Jesmine Kyriel > and mending the briges with those you have.
[ 2010.12.27 21:48:13 ] StalinGrad6 > that means nothing to me. a peaceful existance in EvE is not something that is either humanly or even godly possible. there are just too many assholes around here its impossible.
[ 2010.12.27 21:48:35 ] Jesmine Kyriel > Who do you consider to be the 'assholes' adn why?
[ 2010.12.27 21:49:42 ] StalinGrad6 > you wouldnt know. you havent been in MY world.
[ 2010.12.27 21:50:35 ] StalinGrad6 > pray you never have to.
[ 2010.12.27 21:50:44 ] Jesmine Kyriel > Fair point. Regardless, let me ask you a question: did you or do you consider ME an asshole for telling your CEO I was going to declare war on his corp over you, something that made her kick you?
[ 2010.12.27 21:52:00 ] Jesmine Kyriel > I'm not even sure is she actaulyl WILL do that
[ 2010.12.27 21:52:24 ] StalinGrad6 > first of all Herr is a "he", secondly i considered you a threat and an enemy to be slaughtered at a later date. i dont consider you an asshole, just someone who doesent know to leave me the hell alone.
[ 2010.12.27 21:52:48 ] Jesmine Kyriel > by 'you' do you reffer to my toon or me teh player?
[ 2010.12.27 21:54:23 ] StalinGrad6 > either. to me it makes no difference. my training and experience have no place for difference. scumbag IC, scumbag IRL. ive nearly been killed several times by ppl whove tried to bullshit e, and ive gotten used to this mentality.
[ 2010.12.27 21:54:54 ] StalinGrad6 > but i can be proven otherwise. as i have just now.
[ 2010.12.27 21:55:07 ] Jesmine Kyriel > What do you mean?
[ 2010.12.27 21:55:18 ] Jesmine Kyriel > As you have jsut now?
[ 2010.12.27 21:55:45 ] StalinGrad6 > youre a scumbag IC, one who wont leave me alone. now ive spoken to you, i consider you that which i am indifferent towards: a humn being.
[ 2010.12.27 21:55:56 ] StalinGrad6 > in other words:
[ 2010.12.27 21:56:14 ] StalinGrad6 > im no longer hostile towards you. but i still dont like you. attitudes change.
[ 2010.12.27 21:57:47 ] Jesmine Kyriel > I see. Yuor beginning to see the core of what I believe your problem with RP in EVE may be - you fail to separate IC actions and beliefs with OOC ones. IC, my character wanted you to A) renounce your alligience and B) to be kicked from corp, she would
[ 2010.12.27 21:58:30 ] Jesmine Kyriel > be satisfied by that, and leave you alone after. I as a person don't really care what you do, but your IC actions had a reaction from my toon, when I considered 'what would Jesmine think of this? What would she do?' Now we know
[ 2010.12.27 21:58:46 ] Jesmine Kyriel > *I* am not an Amarrian in RL. I'm not even female.
[ 2010.12.27 21:59:07 ] Jesmine Kyriel > Adn I believe your doing something simmilar to what I did many years ago, ergo I'm here to try and help.
[ 2010.12.27 21:59:12 ] Jesmine Kyriel > if you want to, ofc :)
[ 2010.12.27 21:59:47 ] StalinGrad6 > im open to anything as long as i dont have to pay for it.
[ 2010.12.27 22:00:20 ] StalinGrad6 > account shuts down January 6th unless i get a PLEX.
[ 2010.12.27 22:00:43 ] Jesmine Kyriel > you won't, from an ooc point of view, not have to pay anything except the time needed to listen, adn that's only if you want to.
[ 2010.12.27 22:00:50 ] Jesmine Kyriel > You don't pay with money?
[ 2010.12.27 22:01:36 ] Jesmine Kyriel > ignore that question, it don't matter.
[ 2010.12.27 22:01:43 ] StalinGrad6 > CCP shut down paybycash. i used paybycash and securing GTCs is a matter of opinion. PLEX are my only chance now.
[ 2010.12.27 22:01:53 ] StalinGrad6 > it matters.
[ 2010.12.27 22:01:57 ] StalinGrad6 > consider this:
[ 2010.12.27 22:02:04 ] Jesmine Kyriel > aouch. Sorry to hear that.
[ 2010.12.27 22:02:09 ] Jesmine Kyriel > /emote lsitens
[ 2010.12.27 22:03:02 ] StalinGrad6 > im an rp player right? right. my acount dies in a few weeks right? right. consider this rp event my cup runneth over and if it had a positive effect on my game and that of others (obviously not) i went out with a bang. so to speak.
[ 2010.12.27 22:04:32 ] Jesmine Kyriel > So you were about ot leave anyhow and hoped for a positive last event? I'm not entierly sure i follow, sorry.
[ 2010.12.27 22:06:08 ] StalinGrad6 > sigh. i usually make sure i try to vex my enemies or do something fantastic that made everyone have more fun, before i leave anything. if i do leave, i make sure i create a lasting effect. at least for a while anyway.
[ 2010.12.27 22:06:33 ] StalinGrad6 > it has worked in the past.
[ 2010.12.27 22:06:48 ] Jesmine Kyriel > I can understand that. "You will remember me for this." Right?
[ 2010.12.27 22:07:26 ] StalinGrad6 > of course. i try make sure ppl remember me. its workedvery well in the past. like an example?
[ 2010.12.27 22:07:55 ] Jesmine Kyriel > No real need, but go on
[ 2010.12.27 22:08:21 ] StalinGrad6 > sry :) i like to brag about this stuff :) its fun, besides im bored. ahem:
[ 2010.12.27 22:09:10 ] StalinGrad6 > xbox live, my gold membership decided to end itself and we hit a spot of cash probs, so i couldnt renew. went on Chromehounds Server and had an end of year war with some friends.
[ 2010.12.27 22:09:40 ] StalinGrad6 > as it went on, it grew and grew. at its climax it nearly crashed the server with 43000 players trying to get in on it.
[ 2010.12.27 22:09:51 ] Jesmine Kyriel > cute
[ 2010.12.27 22:10:08 ] StalinGrad6 > they never forgot that one i dont think.
[ 2010.12.27 22:12:57 ] Jesmine Kyriel > Let's go back a bit to one of your sayings. "Assholes IC = assholes IRL" This is an impression you have due RL, I take it. There is a fundamental flaw in this I believe you have stumbled in
[ 2010.12.27 22:13:31 ] Jesmine Kyriel > You see, I *KNOW* for a fact that the vast majority of RP'ers in this game are nice folks ooc? How do I know? I talk to them on a regualr basis, or used to anyhow.
[ 2010.12.27 22:13:46 ] StalinGrad6 > i do as well.
[ 2010.12.27 22:14:03 ] Jesmine Kyriel > I don't post much on that forum now due to an issue wih my PC a month or two ago, but my point remains.
[ 2010.12.27 22:14:35 ] StalinGrad6 > but for me, its just how it happens. somehow it always goes back to IC, back to hating, back to hell and i nver hear the end of it.
[ 2010.12.27 22:14:58 ] Jesmine Kyriel > Even the msot grotesque slaver adn murderer of children IC can be a loving family-man in RL. You take offense as a palyer to actions leveled towards your character for IC reason.
[ 2010.12.27 22:15:03 ] Jesmine Kyriel > Well I'm sorry ot hear that
[ 2010.12.27 22:15:24 ] Jesmine Kyriel > I've only had such a problem with oen guy in my whole life and do my best to ignore him now.
[ 2010.12.27 22:15:29 ] Jesmine Kyriel > it works too, for me anyhow
[ 2010.12.27 22:15:31 ] StalinGrad6 > its a curse im afraid. that visit to the Ukraine probably jinxed me.....
[ 2010.12.27 22:15:42 ] StalinGrad6 > happy to hear it.
[ 2010.12.27 22:17:30 ] Jesmine Kyriel > Before you do ro don't leave the RP scene for good, have you heard of the forum called 'Backstage'? It's a purely OOC forum for EVE online and frankly, it's very helpful to anyone with questions, or the deesire to talk about RP adn other stuff
[ 2010.12.27 22:17:55 ] StalinGrad6 > yeh i heard of it.
[ 2010.12.27 22:18:22 ] StalinGrad6 > im planning a visit to it later next year.
[ 2010.12.27 22:18:26 ] Jesmine Kyriel > Oh good. I could link it to you and you could get registered, make a 'hello' tread etc. Might be helpful.
[ 2010.12.27 22:18:34 ] Jesmine Kyriel > Later next year?
[ 2010.12.27 22:18:35 ] Jesmine Kyriel > oh wait
[ 2010.12.27 22:18:47 ] Jesmine Kyriel > next year is a few days away *favepalm*
[ 2010.12.27 22:19:28 ] StalinGrad6 > lol
[ 2010.12.27 22:19:37 ] StalinGrad6 > yeh i need a link to it.
[ 2010.12.27 22:19:45 ] StalinGrad6 > please.
[ 2010.12.27 22:19:48 ] StalinGrad6 > scuse my manners.
[ 2010.12.27 22:20:32 ] Jesmine Kyriel > I'm trying, you are rather offensive when pissed, you got to admit
[ 2010.12.27 22:20:52 ] Jesmine Kyriel > here you go
[ 2010.12.27 22:20:55 ] Jesmine Kyriel > http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php
[ 2010.12.27 22:21:34 ] StalinGrad6 > "rather offensive"? im a retired mercenary. it was my JOB to be offensive. but thx for the link
[ 2010.12.27 22:22:32 ] StalinGrad6 > bookmarked
[ 2010.12.27 22:23:29 ] StalinGrad6 > thank u :)
[ 2010.12.27 22:23:31 ] Jesmine Kyriel > good, feel free to join in whenever you feel like it
[ 2010.12.27 22:23:41 ] StalinGrad6 > i certanly will
[ 2010.12.27 22:23:50 ] Jesmine Kyriel > til then, anything else you want to ask me?
[ 2010.12.27 22:24:26 ] StalinGrad6 > well nothing except no wardec but besides that not much.... oh wait a bit, you a pvper right?
[ 2010.12.27 22:25:01 ] Jesmine Kyriel > more-or-less, I got exhumer5, mining skills, Battelcruier5, and PVP-centric skills etc
[ 2010.12.27 22:25:07 ] Jesmine Kyriel > I do both adn enjoy both
[ 2010.12.27 22:25:41 ] StalinGrad6 > well, i need pvp help. got any Caldari or Amarr fits i can use? you know, expendables?
[ 2010.12.27 22:26:10 ] Jesmine Kyriel > yes. Many cheap ones too. What ships are you thinking about?
[ 2010.12.27 22:26:26 ] StalinGrad6 > erm... sec
[ 2010.12.27 22:27:58 ] StalinGrad6 > Omen, Caracal, Rifter, Punisher and you dont happen to have the fit for a Naglfar or Cimera by any chance?
[ 2010.12.27 22:28:10 ] Jesmine Kyriel > hell no :P
[ 2010.12.27 22:28:33 ] StalinGrad6 > worth a shot :P
[ 2010.12.27 22:28:49 ] Jesmine Kyriel > I'll mail you some fittings as I think them over, would have to get to my older toon for that however.
[ 2010.12.27 22:29:12 ] Jesmine Kyriel > he knows all those ships, not jsut amarrian ones
[ 2010.12.27 22:29:30 ] StalinGrad6 > oh cool thx fr that :)
[ 2010.12.27 22:29:32 ] StalinGrad6 > btw
[ 2010.12.27 22:29:40 ] Jesmine Kyriel > Yes?
[ 2010.12.27 22:30:16 ] StalinGrad6 > fair warning: im putting an alt or other character into the RP. you'll only see me on my A DRone Reborn Thread on the IGS, him, you'll be seeing everywhere. watch out for him.
[ 2010.12.27 22:30:55 ] Jesmine Kyriel > Feel free to deck this toon with your other character then if you wish, but don't expect it to be simple.
[ 2010.12.27 22:31:33 ] Jesmine Kyriel > You will also have to find her etc, she don't have a habit of looking for people who deck her - the agressors go to where the agressed is, after all.
[ 2010.12.27 22:32:10 ] Jesmine Kyriel > Stal, may I ask something?
[ 2010.12.27 22:32:19 ] StalinGrad6 > if u want
[ 2010.12.27 22:33:28 ] Jesmine Kyriel > Do your character consider Jesmine to be an enemy becasue she were about to declare on your corp over you, or do YOU the player consider her, or even me, an enemy?
[ 2010.12.27 22:34:34 ] StalinGrad6 > just the toon. me personally-i used to. not anymore. Stal however REALLY hates Jesmine.
[ 2010.12.27 22:34:57 ] Jesmine Kyriel > He did love that corp i think...
[ 2010.12.27 22:35:07 ] Jesmine Kyriel > Are you realyl beign kicked out?
[ 2010.12.27 22:35:08 ] StalinGrad6 > yep
[ 2010.12.27 22:35:12 ] StalinGrad6 > nope.
[ 2010.12.27 22:35:25 ] StalinGrad6 > if i was i wouldnt be talking to you.
[ 2010.12.27 22:36:01 ] StalinGrad6 > id be scrambling for the safety of gallente space XD
[ 2010.12.27 22:36:36 ] Jesmine Kyriel > Then you will see her sooner then you think. If your toon is not out of that corp by 04:00 tonight in-game-time then she will deck your corp. If you want to fight, feel free to have your other toon join the corp.
[ 2010.12.27 22:36:44 ] Jesmine Kyriel > or fight yourself, it's allways an option :)
[ 2010.12.27 22:37:38 ] StalinGrad6 > i cant fight. besides, im stuck in station for a week anyway. not much to do but wait fr training. you gonna let war one week then over or gonna continue it indefinitely?
[ 2010.12.27 22:38:35 ] Jesmine Kyriel > I guess we will see. That's the problem with palyign my character - she sticks by her word. Your CEO said he would kick you and she offered the relaxation of lettign you leav corp in peace and there would be no war.
[ 2010.12.27 22:38:59 ] Jesmine Kyriel > If she lied and you stay put there will be no choice but to deck you, she SAID she would.
[ 2010.12.27 22:39:12 ] Jesmine Kyriel > and that might cost me alot of isk in assets, but so be it.
[ 2010.12.27 22:39:59 ] StalinGrad6 > well, would she have any objections to me leaving and then rejoining later on? or perhaps first posting my leavig the raiders and publicly explaining what i did? would THAT avoid the war?
[ 2010.12.27 22:42:09 ] Jesmine Kyriel > hold on a bit
[ 2010.12.27 22:42:16 ] StalinGrad6 > kk
[ 2010.12.27 22:42:29 ] Jesmine Kyriel > was a phone, I'll explain her IC viewpoints and my OOC viewpoints
[ 2010.12.27 22:42:42 ] StalinGrad6 > ok
[ 2010.12.27 22:43:12 ] Jesmine Kyriel > Way she sees it, you joining the blooders was THE BIG BAD, as she hates them. You decided to renounce yor loyalty to them, so that's good, but 'an example must be set' to ensure you or anyone else realize there are reactions to doing so. Yes, she would
[ 2010.12.27 22:43:54 ] Jesmine Kyriel > want ot have you out of that corp, adn she would fight to force them to kick you out. That means a possibly long adn expensive war, as she value her word far more than her life, or wallet.
[ 2010.12.27 22:44:29 ] Jesmine Kyriel > As for me, personally, I've nothing agaisnt anyone of you or your corpies. it would start with a week, then possibly a week more depending on how the war goes and if you leave or no.
[ 2010.12.27 22:45:13 ] Jesmine Kyriel > if you kept remaining and refuse to leave, it would be a question of who grows bored frist; me with the pvp or lack thereof, or your corp with suffering due to your roon's RP actions.
[ 2010.12.27 22:45:29 ] StalinGrad6 > no matter anyway, ive already entered corporate stasis. seems herr is kicking me. temporarily of course.
[ 2010.12.27 22:45:34 ] Jesmine Kyriel > so short answer is; I don't know how long it will be, but if you remain there wil lbe a war
[ 2010.12.27 22:45:54 ] Jesmine Kyriel > how much time is 'temporarely'?
[ 2010.12.27 22:46:22 ] StalinGrad6 > a week, maybe 3 opr 4 days. i REALLY HATE these npc starter corps i have to go through.
[ 2010.12.27 22:47:31 ] Jesmine Kyriel > I hear you. My main goes to aliestra, I HATE.THAT.HOLE
[ 2010.12.27 22:48:21 ] Jesmine Kyriel > if you remaiend out for a week I'd think that amy be enough and she won't bother you again
[ 2010.12.27 22:48:22 ] StalinGrad6 > Allestra? is it THAT bad?
[ 2010.12.27 22:48:30 ] StalinGrad6 > 7 days? ok
[ 2010.12.27 22:48:37 ] Jesmine Kyriel > *I* think so. There are people there who love it
[ 2010.12.27 22:49:02 ] StalinGrad6 > to each his own eh?
[ 2010.12.27 22:49:53 ] Jesmine Kyriel > consider this: how much time does SHE have to hunt you down? SHE has things to do as well, besides hunting you. Fact of the matter is you renounced your ties, and she did ask for that. You are also gettign kicked, she asked for that too, Job complete,
[ 2010.12.27 22:50:25 ] Jesmine Kyriel > however the 'kick him form corp' was to have fellable IN-GAME consequences for actions made. How much suffering is a day in an NPC corp? A week might be different
[ 2010.12.27 22:50:39 ] Jesmine Kyriel > after all, she can't hunt you forever, regardless fo what corp your in :P
[ 2010.12.27 22:50:50 ] Jesmine Kyriel > and frankly, I don't have to much time either, so.
[ 2010.12.27 22:51:27 ] StalinGrad6 > yeh. well, either way its over. and by the way, just for curiositys sake, if the war really did go through, i had somming special planned.
[ 2010.12.27 22:52:11 ] Jesmine Kyriel > you'd better, it would have made for a nasty surprize I think. Try notot abandon your toon toatally though. Here is what you could do to swethen it over;
[ 2010.12.27 22:52:28 ] StalinGrad6 > hold up a sec.
[ 2010.12.27 22:52:36 ] StalinGrad6 > im not abandoning anything.
[ 2010.12.27 22:53:05 ] Jesmine Kyriel > Good to hear.
[ 2010.12.27 22:53:32 ] StalinGrad6 > but i had somming planned that would give little Jes a good reason not to linger around for too long.
[ 2010.12.27 22:54:20 ] StalinGrad6 > a bounty of 100 mil to the one who brings me your corpse plus a further 10 mil for each confirmed ship kill. i think that money is enough for most people to at least try yes?
[ 2010.12.27 22:55:06 ] Jesmine Kyriel > I'd think so yeah. But you would never get my corpse. Unless you ran to null-sec and bubbled me.
[ 2010.12.27 22:55:17 ] Jesmine Kyriel > Anyhow here's what you could do;
[ 2010.12.27 22:55:28 ] StalinGrad6 > /emote is listening
[ 2010.12.27 22:55:45 ] Jesmine Kyriel > first, stay out of corp for a week, just train skills or whatever, you can still mine for your corp after all etc. Also, on the IGS, *politely* (try no to rage or be agressive) inform the public of your reasons for 'joining' the blooders, and that you
[ 2010.12.27 22:56:48 ] Jesmine Kyriel > did so only for material gain, that ou GOT, and thus no longer needed thier help. Also, make a genralized appology for your rather edgy behavior, I'd think this is the majority of the reasons people might be angry wih you IC.
[ 2010.12.27 22:57:20 ] Jesmine Kyriel > If that's something your character would do to get heat off him, I think it might work well. Jes would definitly have littel to no reason to deck you after that, her 'job' would be over
[ 2010.12.27 22:57:53 ] StalinGrad6 > was actually planning thaty. already had somming penned out.
[ 2010.12.27 22:58:30 ] Jesmine Kyriel > Good man. In that case I fear we will never meet in space. Not gunning each other down anyhow.
[ 2010.12.27 22:59:05 ] StalinGrad6 > well, we'll have to see then wont we? anywho, i gotta go, wife aggro. cya bro. nice chattingv with you.
[ 2010.12.27 22:59:08 ] StalinGrad6 > Peace Out.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: hellgremlin on 09 Jan 2011, 19:55: Quote from: The Bad RPer on 09 Jan 2011, 13:23
So this is how i go huh?

Shot down both IC and OOC.

Milo, i appreciate your help but its quite obvious i can do nothing to remedy this situation with or without help. your efforts were not a waste of time and seriously i thank you for your help, but im so agitated im deaf to voices of reason.

thats over now, ive calmed down some.

ever since this stuff started ive recieved almost daily death threats.

i tell them to read my bio. and its over.

but i'll tell you one thing.

youre right about me not leaving RP permanently. i got ONE little storyline left in me.

All that rage? thats because you people were screwing me over. i plan EVERYTHING i say or do when it comes to EvE, unfortunately my "plan" didnt expect so many people to automatically shoot me down.

so thus, the thread was shut down due to nobody listening to me anymore.

but that will change. i got one more little thread left in me. i know better than anyone it will do NOTHING to help my main. but one things for sure.

i think you'll like it.

if not, i leave EvE online with a legacy.

as the worst RPer in history.

either way, i leave a mark. its not a good one, but its somming you'll remember.

im getting irritated again. you'll have to exuse me for not continuing, but i need to stop before i say something truly horrible.

good day. for now.

Are you angry at people? I could help you solve your problems. I find anger at people is wonderfully abated upon seeing those people horribly murdered.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Mizhara on 10 Jan 2011, 11:51: Wasn't talking to you in particular, Elsebeth. Was just making a point in general.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: DosTuMai on 10 Jan 2011, 12:04: Mistakes:
I don't care. People make mistakes both IC and OOC. It's a terrible part of the human condition - it's something we can't avoid.
Dossie hasn't met the guy IC, niether has Mei, so he'd start with a clean slate.
Stuff happens, draw a line through it & carry on as there's no point getting upset about RP.
Wardecs & stuff:
If I had good enough reason and convinced my Corp that it was a good move, I'd wardec a Corp. Hell, if Miz was still in her old Corp, Dossie would dec on principle.
Stuff is stuff, so it's all gravey. Omnomnom.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Silver Night on 10 Jan 2011, 19:20: Incidentally, I can change your member name to something else, if you'd like. PM me if you want it changed, to the name of one of your characters, or to something else.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Syylara/Yaansu on 11 Jan 2011, 13:22: Quote from: The Bad RPer on 09 Jan 2011, 13:23
i plan EVERYTHING i say or do when it comes to EvE

That doesn't work with this game, and not just when it comes to RP.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 11 Jan 2011, 13:38: Quote from: Syylara/Yaansu on 11 Jan 2011, 13:22
Quote from: The Bad RPer on 09 Jan 2011, 13:23
i plan EVERYTHING i say or do when it comes to EvE

That doesn't work with this game, and not just when it comes to RP.
What he says. That's just not how EVE works. Not EVE RP, and especially not EVE in general. People will do stuff you did not plan for, they will wardec you occasionally, they will suicide gank you, they will outbid you on the markets and generally compete with you, like it or not. You can plan everything you say or do, but you cannot plan the effects it will have with other people. You will end up in situations where unexpected stuff happens and you will have to improvise.

And that's where the fun is.

Generally, if you want to tell a story where you have control on everything, you don't RP. If you insist on RPing something where you can plan everything, you can try that in some formats, most easily in tabletops as a GM with an obliging group of players who enjoy your story more than they enjoy the chances to affect it. But in EVE, you basically, well. I guess you can do it. If you never do anything in the game, never undock, and never react to anything other people reply to you on IGS. But why would you? You might as well write a book.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Aria Jenneth on 11 Jan 2011, 17:43: Quote from: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 11 Jan 2011, 13:38
You might as well write a book.

It may be that I've gotten too used to roleplay to be a novelist: for me, the hardest part of writing a book is that the damned lazy thing doesn't talk back!

I'll second-- er, third-- the statement that you can't plan everything out in Eve. You'd need to "plan" other people's reactions, and that's ...

... well, just expect to do a lot of improvising.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Inara Subaka on 11 Jan 2011, 18:29: Quote from: Syylara/Yaansu on 11 Jan 2011, 13:22
Quote from: The Bad RPer on 09 Jan 2011, 13:23
i plan EVERYTHING i say or do when it comes to EvE

That doesn't work with this game, and not just when it comes to RP.

I'm not sure I'd agree with this, I personally plan most everything that I do. I just make room in those plans for the top3-4 most likely reactions people will have to my actions. Planning a 'linear' path is... I'd say impossible, but planning for contengencies is very possible (and possibly even necessary).

Also, missiles in someone's face == RP, building/selling on the markets == RP, and /sips == RP.

Note: this post is mostly off topic, just felt like responding to comments being made.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Mizhara on 12 Jan 2011, 05:11: Oh God... 'linears'. Worst RP invention to have ever been made, then dragged kicking and screaming into MMOs. MMOs quite simply aren't the place for those things. Especially Eve, with it's non-consensual gameplay and thus RP.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Louella Dougans on 12 Jan 2011, 08:53: hmm, so when you'd said that the "sani sabik" had asked you to post on IGS in return for that Cruor, then no-one had put you up to it? it was your idea?

that's something anyway. I know there's a few people who would do that sort of thing (compel someone to post on IGS) in order to make them suffer the consequences.

but that's people for you.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: BloodBird on 12 Jan 2011, 10:29: Quote from: Inara Subaka on 11 Jan 2011, 18:29
Quote from: Syylara/Yaansu on 11 Jan 2011, 13:22
Quote from: The Bad RPer on 09 Jan 2011, 13:23
i plan EVERYTHING i say or do when it comes to EvE

That doesn't work with this game, and not just when it comes to RP.

I'm not sure I'd agree with this, I personally plan most everything that I do. I just make room in those plans for the top3-4 most likely reactions people will have to my actions. Planning a 'linear' path is... I'd say impossible, but planning for contengencies is very possible (and possibly even necessary).

Also, missiles in someone's face == RP, building/selling on the markets == RP, and /sips == RP.

Note: this post is mostly off topic, just felt like responding to comments being made.

I will second this.

Jesmine was never planned in a linear fasion, but she was 'planned'. I spent a month before making the account working out her general beliefs, methods, desires, some quirks of personality and a basic plan for what I'd like her to do. This I hoped to flex around whatever came my way, making it a path that twisted and turned and sometimes punched straight through obstacles, all for the sake of making it unexpected and fun. If I did not, she would end up another nameless, faceless, silently neglected missioning alt in her starter corp somewhere. No thanks.

So far, It's been alot of fun, and things have transpired mostly as I had predicted, a few things happened that ended up complimenting her character in the end.

So, Stal, building on what others here said about this (assuming you are still reading this) I think the underlying idea is... how was that phrase?

"The Codex is not a law, it's more like guide-lines."

Cheap-ass excuse yeah, but it works mostly like that. Generate a 'plan'. Keep it broad. "This is more-or-less what I'd like to see happen." Then incorporate possible events as you go along, this can be alot of fun in itself.

When next you do something on the IGS or in space or whatever, try to frame it's basic idea and imagine how it might go based on what reactions/consequenses it generates, then add on any possible 'what happens now' type ideas onto that.

"Jesmine is a heavy liberal. Jesmine may be kicked from the empire for being to liberal. Do you want this, yes/no? What would be best? Okay then, she's exiled. She's giving away her lands to a 'better holder' – who would you preffer? Graelyn offered help, nice, he get's it all. Jesmine is forced to leave, for where?"

And so on... not sure it's the best example but you might get where I'm getting at. In short... yeah, that's a good way of putting it.

In short, figure out for yourself what kind of character you would enjoy playing as, what motivates them and so on. And if making 'plans' for the future is your thing and it's supposed to involve or rely on other, other than 'make corp strive to reach X goal solo' then make them dynamic, a little flexible.

Heaven help you if you wish to RP different things, but not 'break' a character to have him changed, then you will need more accounts /o\
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 12 Jan 2011, 10:34: I did not, obviously, mean to imply you cannot plan things in EVE. Everyone does to some extent. I have some plans I set into action five years ago coming to life now. I have a lot of alternative plans for most game situations I go to that I know of beforehand. If one surprises me, I start to make plans the minute I enter it.

But that does not mean you can plan everything, every word etc. Sometimes you just have to play it by the gut feeling.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: BloodBird on 12 Jan 2011, 11:03: And Else managed to say what I wanted to say in far fewer words. Guess it goes with the experience.

So yeah, what Elsebeth said, just for clarity.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Merdaneth on 12 Jan 2011, 15:33: Quote from: BloodBird on 12 Jan 2011, 11:03
And Else managed to say what I wanted to say in far fewer words. Guess it goes with the experience.

My money is on talent.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 13 Jan 2011, 07:56: You guys make me blush. :D Thanks.
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: Valdezi on 16 Jan 2011, 00:16: I just re-read this thread, which I hadn't looked at since before Backstage went down.

Wait, Bloodbird is Jesmine?

:eek:
Title: Re: War... huh, what is it good for?
Post by: BloodBird on 16 Jan 2011, 12:24: Quote from: Mammal Tafren on 16 Jan 2011, 00:16
I just re-read this thread, which I hadn't looked at since before Backstage went down.

Wait, Bloodbird is Jesmine?

:eek:

For some reason I imagined that when people figured this out, they would be more "oh well, that explains things" and not so much :eek: or :lol: or even <wtf>.

I'm not even sure if this means that I managed to portray a character different form my oldest toon or not.