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[Ghost Hunter]

I'm sure I'm gonna step on someone's toes here, but, that's half of what I do already, so. Herewuhgo.

I'm wildly opposed to CCP's current representation of the Sansha, among other pirate factions, and I know some people share the sentiment. The problem is that when you basically make a character or faction, raise them up to the status of a superpower with unimaginably powerful weapons, set them against the entirety of the cluster, and openly declare that they're the obvious black-and-white antagonists, what you've made isn't the deep, politically and socially complex, mostly-grey and infinitely interesting world of EVE.

You've made the plot from Harry Potter.

I can't speak for everyone obviously. But the idea of world-killer weapons, superpowerful antagonists, clear-cut discrepancies between good and evil... it's just fucking boring, and childish.

In simplest terms I agree with you, some points aside (I love superweapons, not necessarily antagonists).

Would you think an exit strategy for the Sansha in this storyline would be for Kuvakei, after his nose has been bloodied a bit perhaps, has the Nation formally withdraw back to its traditional territories for internal affairs? I rather like the idea of Kuvakei caving into his messiah complex for his people and starts rebuilding the home worlds of the Nation back to glory. It shows he can go off the deep end for vengeance, but he is not solely defined by his hate/revenge emotions. Ergo, fulfills the part of the Sansha chronicle where he truly believes himself a messiah. You know, in a twisted, fucked up way, but he loves us all the same.

Jules, I think the issue isn't the motive so much as it is the means, to use the old murder mystery elements.

That said, I think the Sansha roleplayers have done a better than decent job of creating moral ambiguity and shades of gray for that faction. Reasonable people can disagree on whether CCP has done so as well, but Kybernetes and GH have really reduced the contrast there.

♥

I agree with the means over the motive, as it were. The motive for galactic conquest is all fine and dandy, but the means to get there is what builds the character. The Nation has the characteristics of a massive shadow entity who probably rivals the Jovians in terms of intelligence warfare. I mean, they can pull the information right out of your skull. Kinda serious.

A sudden resurgence on a galactic 'look at me scale' seems to go against their master mind way of behaving. Why draw attention when it can still be stopped, versus it's too late for them now, basically. I dunno, it seems like an artistic conflict because CCP wanted them to be the main villain of the Incursions. It works, it's a bit of a leap, but it works to a degree.

[Julianus Soter]

Did Sansha give a fuck about the 'method', ie, use 'sekrit' approaches to galactic conquest, his last time around? As I recall, he rather publicly assembled a massive fleet/army of slaves in Stain, which the nations then responded to and crushed. Are we sure that he would've learned from this lesson, being the massive egomaniac that he is?

[Saede Riordan]

Did Sansha give a fuck about the 'method', ie, use 'sekrit' approaches to galactic conquest, his last time around? As I recall, he rather publicly assembled a massive fleet/army of slaves in Stain, which the nations then responded to and crushed. Are we sure that he would've learned from this lesson, being the massive egomaniac that he is?

No. That's really not what happened at all. He was mostly minding his own business and the other empires didn't like his style.

[Julianus Soter]

Minding his business like. . . abducting people and making mind-slaves out of them, perhaps.

[Ghost Hunter]

Did Sansha give a fuck about the 'method', ie, use 'sekrit' approaches to galactic conquest, his last time around? As I recall, he rather publicly assembled a massive fleet/army of slaves in Stain, which the nations then responded to and crushed. Are we sure that he would've learned from this lesson, being the massive egomaniac that he is?

What happened a century ago is still somewhat murky. We know from the Sansha Nation's chronicle that the Empires saw him visibly mass a great slave army, but I do not recall any declarations on his part of announcing galactic conquest. The Empires crushed him in a preemptive strike, and the closest thing from that time period I can think of is the Audio Fragment where he declares himself 'the answer'.

Logic dictates he probably very well intended galactic conquest at that time period, because the Nation was at the height of its glory and expansion was a good choice for the massive military. Whether or not he intends to presumably continue that assumed goal, I do not know. This may seem dodgy, but until Kuvakei outright states something along the lines of 'I will rule the universe', best not to get hunkered down in one assumption. Keep our options open, and all that.

He might've just intended to kick the shit out of the Amarrians, for instance. Or the fledgling Angel Cartel that was on the borders of Nation space. Wouldn't want any criminal scourge tainting the edges of the great promised land, and all that jazz. One could easily look at the COSMOS for the Sansha where they are attempting to expand into Angel territory for credibility to either theory, honestly.

Edit: I'm also pretty sure at the time Delve, Querious, and Period Basis were unpopulated by anything more than extreme frontiersmen. It wasn't until EVE's launch and the Bleak Lands arc when the Covenant got kicked out did they make those regions their formal home. Might be wrong though, some old timers will have to check in on that. Expanding the military in order to guard those three new regions for the Nation would be a sensible choice as well.

[Senn Typhos]

@ Business Kitty aka. Ghost

Looking over your former points, I can see how Sansha himself has a few, for lack of better terms, excuses for the superweapon field. Among those is the fact that he was a Caldari entrepreneur, and so probably lives by the indoctrination of the patriots - being a weapons manufacturer - in that a bigass weapon is a valid tactic. For that matter, it might be an interesting point that Kuvakei might consider it worthwhile to say,open up a wormhole on a planet, to prove his messiah-ness to any followers disillusioned by the incursions.

Personally, I could see Kuvakei being defeated by his own complex, so to speak. Some kind of, Die Hard-style standoff against his personal carrier, which the close-orbiting CONCORD, navy and capsuleer pilots don't know carries a self-destructing supermassive wormhole generator on-board...

More likely, I expect CCP to continue with their mustache-twirling interpretation of Sansha, and have him disappear back into the void to collect his strength after sneering at the empires and saying "nyeahhh, foiled again!" But, at least in that interpretation, your glorious leader gets to live.

I'm eager to see what the player loyalists do, moreover. CCP might keep the incursions running for a time, but I have to figure eventually they'll let them end. At that point it'll be up to the players to decide what the faction's direction will be, which is what I think we're far more interested in.  

As per Serps, we're purely black market. We're not doing anything else.

I'm serial about that. We're not doing anything. Just drugs.

Serial.