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[Kaleigh Doyle]

I have no idea where to put this, so feel free to move it to where you find this appropriate.

I find myself somewhat peeved as of late by the necessity for roleplayers to portray their characters out of pod as often as possible, be it hosting extravagant parties on luxurious getaway planets, dropping down to a dense jungle to hunt wild animals, or even get wasted at dive bars on remote stations. And granted, I'm one of the worst offenders of all time, but it strikes me in retrospect at how absurd it really is.

The recent Xenocracy chronicle is a prime example, in my eyes, of a "realistic" scenario a typical capsuleer might be involved in. A capsuleer trying to organize and manage an alliance's planetary industry isn't going to waste his time flying down to talk to ONE manager in PERSON, but I can guarantee you there are a plethora of roleplayers engaged in such a way.

The disconnect here, as I see it, is that people perceive being a capsule pilot as just a job rather than a lifestyle changing event. They still go home and sit down at a dinner table and eat a home cooked meal and go back out into space for another eight hours of murdering npcs or killing faction warfare enemies.

I really think this is devaluing a key pivotal impact of being a capsuleer and our innate connection to our vessels through the pod. Our perceptions change entirely when we’re direct linked to a vessel, a machine, with the sole purpose of responding instantly to menu-driven thought commands. Firing weaponry, managing energy usage, repair subsystems, translating in our brain the neural input of external stimulii from sensors and camera drones, all while monitoring communications channels and the local market.

Take this bombardment of information, the constant and instantaneous feedback from thought to output response, and repeat that for days and months at a time to the point where this becomes second nature. Suddenly you can understand WHY pilots are impatient, especially when forced to interact with people who have no grasp of this world they live in.

Now take that away and put them on the ground, outside their pod. Suddenly the stimulii is gone and they’re left with their own limbs. They can’t just think to get something done, now they actually have to incite a motor response that seems like second nature to us, but when you’re so connected to a machine that does it all for you, it has to be frustrating and foreign to be back in that environment. It feels uncomfortable and awkward…restrictive, and diminishing. It reminds the pilots of their frailty, and ultimately pushes them back to where they feel useful again…in their pods.

This reminds me a lot of today’s society and our addiction to information, the internet, and easily accessible communication tools that keep us constantly hooked on what’s happening next. Previous generations of people not invested in the culture of technology look on with concern and we get impatient with them when they try to use it because it comes as second nature to us and nearly impossible for them.

Which comes back to another point about characters meeting in person; there’s always this tendency to imagine our characters as actor-lookalikes (see that other thread) or models, etc., but how many really depict our characters with all those implants jutting from our heads? That’s not very sexy, is it?

All these reasons compounded lead me to believe that this need to roleplay out of our capsules is near immersion-breaking for me as a player and somewhat frustrating. For two capsuleers to meet out of pod would/should be, in my eyes, a very very rare event that in itself should say something about the encounter.

I realize most of you probably won’t share my viewpoint on this, and I’m sure you’ll all have plenty of reasons to justify your behavior (and you really don’t need to), and I certainly don’t want you to feel like I’m trying to tell you what to do, but I thought I’d share my perspective on the matter and maybe give you some food for thought.

[Saede Riordan]

I really don't want to agree with you, I really want to be able to say, you're wrong its not like that, but that's because out of pod RPing is fun, it leads to more, I guess flexible interactions.

That said, you make a lot of really valid points, I don't want to agree with you, but I see where you are coming from

[Ken]

This reminds me a lot of today’s society and our addiction to information, the internet, and easily accessible communication tools that keep us constantly hooked on what’s happening next. Previous generations of people not invested in the culture of technology look on with concern and we get impatient with them when they try to use it because it comes as second nature to us and nearly impossible for them.

Excellent analogy with information technology. 

Frankly, I think it's just easier to roleplay people acting "normally" in a sci-fi setting than to really dive into the man-become-machine transhuman element of the capsuleer.  We know the storylines, we can relate to the characters more, and its reliably fun to explore and expand upon the huge world of New Eden from a more conventional perspective.

Now, as I see it, there are two archetypes of pod pilot.  One is as you describe, absorbed by the experience of being perceptually incarnated as a starship, while the other has used the training and status to elevate themselves militarily, financially, or whatever within the old paradigm.  There are Omvistus capsuleers, frustrated with the "old world", its people, and technologies, but forced to deal with them still, and then there are Jacus Roden capsuleers, for whom the pod and the clone are a means to an end and just one part of their lives.  The second type don't fly very often, but the more they do, the more they'll trend toward the first type.

Also, I'm starting to appreciate the complexity of the Xenocracy chron as the discussion continues.  However, I'm unhappy that a lot of players (none here, really) seem to take it only at face value and read "rawr me capsuleer all ur planets r belong 2 me!" rather than interpret the points that you've brought out in your post, Kaleigh.  Based on the replies in the official chron thread on the EVE-O forums, for many, Xenocracy seems to be about aiming large hybrid weapons at a planet and making yourself look and sound frightening and powerful over a viewscreen. 

imo: "zomg planetary bombardment!!1" < "member of homo superior is forced to deal with the slow-witted monkeys again"

Ultimately, I think the disagreements over that chron stem from the fact that many in the RP community tend to play characters, as you complained, that resemble that second type of capsuleer I described above.  The mundane, out-of-pod, and planet-bound things that fill a lot of RP and fanfic don't harmonize well with the subtler messages in Xenocracy (and your post) about capsuleer psychology, and many of us are resistant to compromise one with the other.  (Not that anyone is required to do so.)

[Seriphyn]

Before I start, you had the balls to say something that is immersion-breaking, so let me take the moment to say that I find the disproportionately of space lesbians to be immersion-breaking too   But anyway...

Like Ken said, your comparison with being connected and disconnected to the Internet is excellent. It now helps me understand what it would be like as a capsuleer, and a further point about immersion-breaking is how people behave as a capsuleer.

Though his actions offend many, Seriphyn is closer to what a capsuleer might be than others. Capsuleers are megalo and egomaniacs, should they not be? Seriphyn is aware of his power and uses it to, well, rather than serve the Federation as he should do, but rather, outlet rage and aggression to satisfy his own failings. Then there are capsuleers who go to bars and RP giant snuggle piles and teenage girls...and I'm left their gagging a bit from the corniness, heh.

Her Painted Selves portrays what I see to be a "good capsuleer" compared to the nastier ones, and is very much in line with how Seriphyn would interact personally with non-capsuleer. The pilot in that chron is a Federation loyalist but not directly tied to the Fed itself, much like us as RPers. He is portrayed as quite human and personable, so it's not like PF doesn't acknowledge our kind.

Consider that only 5% of EVE are RPers. 95% of the others are thus the capsuleers who never leave their pods, and are the Omvistus capsuleers. 5% are the ones who are Jacus Roden (and the teenage girl capsuleers*cough*)...when put into that perspective, is it still immersion-breaking?

Moreover, station RP is something. We all have dedicated areas on each station to capsuleers...I imagine if we RP'd anywhere else, there would be an issue with "ooo capsuleer!". The capsuleer in that chron, for example, used skin patches to hide this. Seriphyn wouldn't, though, given his status.

At the core of it, however, EVE is a great sci-fi universe that we want to explore in a conventional fashion. The whole capsuleer thing is viewed by many I think, as a hinderance and maybe even a ruiner of that.

Sorry for the disjointed post

EDIT: An extract from that chron

He'd stopped and was gesturing for her to take a seat in one of the leather couches. Leather, like wood, was a commodity on the stations and one she felt decidedly uncomfortable with, but the seat he was directing her to had a worn appearance and its leather surface had hairline cracks. "My favorite reading spot," he said.

Capsuleers like to sit out of their pod and read :3

She realized he was trying to help her feel relaxed and the small gesture set her at ease. She sat. "Is this someone's apartment?" she asked him. "Is it yours?"

He sat beside her, at a respectable distance. "Yes, it is. This is the entryway."

So, having those apartment channels for each of us isn't so bad.

"I had someone who clung to me. She did it for glory, me being a capsuleer, and even after I'd had my head scrambled by too many clonings in too little time, even when I made her life this absolute passive-aggressive hell, she still hung on. And eventually what was left of the love evaporated, because even as I wasn't the same person anymore, neither was she. The balance changed and she changed with it."

Capsuleers and love with non-capsuleers. He'd obviously need to not spend so much time in the pod for this...

He grinned slyly. "And heavens, you need makeup. Your cheeks are streaked with tears. You can't be seen like this; think what your husband would say!"

And he jokes and laugh! Heh.

But yes. Death to the teenage girl capsuleers.

[Kimochi Rendar]

It's because secretly all us RPers want to do is play 'House' with our dolls.

But seriously, I consider everything I do ingame to be an IC action of some sort. Every time I undock my ship it's IC, and Kimochi will only be out of the pod and wandering around on a station if I'm docked up and unlikely to undock any time soon. For more mundane stuff like rearranging hangars or fitting starships, I play it as Kimochi issuing orders to her First Mate who then ensures those orders are carried out by the rest of her personnel.

It's slightly easier for me in a way as Kimochi is purely a combat pilot. She doesn't play with the market or get involved with PI (yet...) so she only really needs to get in her pod for combat ops and for the occasional logistics work. That means she has a fair bit of free time - no need to jack in if you are just going to sit around doing nothing right? That's the way I play things anyway.

I think the reason most people like to have their capsuleers disconnected from their pods for long periods of time, even if the player is undocked and mining or running missions or whathaveyou ingame stems from the feeling that it humanizes them and makes them easier to emphathize with. It's harder to connect to and feel empathy for a character who is little more than an organic CPU for their ships... There are exceptions of course, but I think that's the way the majority feel about it.

As an additional note, the Space Lesbians thing irritates me as well. Having very nearly fallen into that trap myself and having spent the lions share of the last year trying to distance myself from it I can honestly say I'm glad to count Kimochi among the game's celibate Capsuleers!

[Kaleigh Doyle]

I just think that the kinds of scenarios some characters put themselves into, such as flying down to a planet to join a firefight as a grunt on the weekends, strikes me as absurd. There are roughly 250,000 capsuleers to how many untold billions of people, hopefully no one would be ridiculous enough to risk themselves around the 'little people' any more than they had to. And that includes crew mingling; can we say spies/assassins?

I think with that isolation/paranoia, or rather the disparity between regular people and capsuleers is a natural inhibitor that would part the two classes and bring capsuleers somewhat closer together. At least they have something in common, even if they might not be able to trust one another.

I just see a trend amongst the players to portray their characters as normal people with being a pilot having such a minimal impact on their life that it makes me cringe.

As for space lesbians, there's a separate post about that. 

[Casiella]

My views on this have evolved over time. The fiction and such I originally wrote for Casiella was a bit more kinetic, if you will. Running and jumping and flipping and all sorts of gymnastics to escape the Evil Bad Guys. As my understanding of the EVE universe has grown and as I've matured as a player, I tend to keep her behind security guards, in offices, or even in space.

Though the situations in which she doesn't have her guards around, or the opposition overcomes them, still provide plenty of tension and drama, at least for me.

[Seriphyn]

I just think that the kinds of scenarios some characters put themselves into, such as flying down to a planet to join a firefight as a grunt on the weekends, strikes me as absurd. There are roughly 250,000 capsuleers to how many untold billions of people, hopefully no one would be ridiculous enough to risk themselves around the 'little people' any more than they had to. And that includes crew mingling; can we say spies/assassins?

This is an interesting point. I think people confuse "ship captain" with "capsuleer", definitely. There are plot devices to alleviate this, for example, with Seriphyn's status in the FDU, his entire crew is thus drawn out directly from that body. But yes, if you just hire general hands, then it's an issue.

I think fiction has the capsule seperate from the ship upon docking, and you are ejected elsewhere ("the pod gantries). Which literally can mean that the ship is literally just a vessel, or suit of armour. Special "cross-capsule" vessels are required for one where you can eject onboard your ship.

It is my belief a lot of us just want to play a generic spacefarer in the rich universe of EVE, but are forced to behave in the way that CCP says. Her Painted Selves is a bit redeeming though, if anyone bothers to read my topic on it lol

[Akikio L]

...characters with all those implants jutting from our heads? That’s not very sexy, is it?

I have less issues with metalic implants than the squishy ones 

[Vincent Pryce]

Considering that when Incarna is released it solidifies the fact that capsuleers get out of the pod, get shitfaced and watch exotic dancers in some shady dive while they place the space age version of craps or WH40K. It gives you a body that resembles a normal human not one that has metal spikes on the head and huge cables hanging out of your ass.

As the chronicles have shown; not all capsuleers are data addicted instant gratification demigods who have said cables hanging out of their ass, some are more humane and thus we're given the tools to play house and Bob the Builder having a pint over at the Choo-Choo Lounge.

So, I think CCP is going more for the gods old take on with this. Take the gods of antiquity as an example. They're petty and fickle creatures with terrible powers and a terrifying visage. Yet they mingle with people, have relationships each other and with the little people. Some build cults of personality to veneer them. Piss them off and you have lightning bolts raining on your planet. Or as the case may be with some capsuleers, 425mm Rail gun raining antimatter.

Besides, not even bears rage all the time. They chillax and eat berries from time to time too.

[Wanoah]

Space is boring.

Spaceships are boring too, after a while.

I mean, those of us who still have active accounts log in and see what we do in our spaceships every time we play Eve. Everyone knows what it's like. We've seen it. It's beautiful and empty and preposterous. Stuff dies in infeasible quantities and CONCORD are ridiculously overpowered and break immersion wherever they appear. Everything is mediated through interfaces, text, camera drones, pod. It's inhuman. It's hard to relate to. It's cool and all, but what happens in the places we don't get to see is inherently more interesting in terms of characterisation and human interaction. Anywhere but your ship, or your identikit hangar bay is a far richer source of inspiration for roleplay and more so for fiction.

The pod, as great as it is from a game mechanic point of view, is terrible for storytelling. It removes the captain-crew dynamic that would make for compelling characterisation and smooth exposition. It removes any sense of dramatic tension. There's not much at stake - least of all a captain's life - and we are all stupidly rich, so losing your stuff doesn't really cut it either.

Yeah. So I'm not at all surprised that people want to talk about anything but what happens in space. I'm not surprised that people want to roleplay their characters as people outside of the pod.

[Repentence Tyrathlion]

As an additional note, the Space Lesbians thing irritates me as well. Having very nearly fallen into that trap myself and having spent the lions share of the last year trying to distance myself from it I can honestly say I'm glad to count Kimochi among the game's celibate Capsuleers!

Dear god it's hard to get away from that, I've used every plot device under the sun to get Repentence out... and it's not working.  I'm pretty much giving up, that's just who she is, silly bitch... hopefully the latest plot thread might help.  At least all my others are celibate psychos ¬¬

I think Seriphyn's point about the tiny minority of RPers is quite a good one, actually.  And there's definitely an element of immersion breaking with how people play it, but I'm not sure it's as bad as all that, so long as people think a little about their characters.

Take Mortis, for example.  He doesn't spend a huge amount of time in the pod, but that's mainly because of his scientific interests; hard to do experiments while hooked in.  He's also rigged his helmet to constantly feed him information about his surroundings, so he's never quite out of contact.

Conversely, Elysa had an extremely tough military upbringing and served with the Caldari Navy for a while, and is very much a case of 'old habits die hard'.  

[Gottii]

I know with my character's story arch, and quite a few other characters I know as well, the reason they do such things as walk on the Crystal Boulevard is that their stories are built around or incorporate the theme of trying to hold on to humanity in the face of so much inhumanity.  I play it that way namely because I find stories about humans more interesting than stories about ships that talk.

Though, I will agree that some RP fare is sometimes hard to conceptualize, i.e. its hard to imagine a POD pilot really willingly going down to a planet and engaging in a fire fight ala Captain Kirk on an Away Team or something.

[Seriphyn]

The pod, as great as it is from a game mechanic point of view, is terrible for storytelling. It removes the captain-crew dynamic that would make for compelling characterisation and smooth exposition. It removes any sense of dramatic tension. There's not much at stake - least of all a captain's life - and we are all stupidly rich, so losing your stuff doesn't really cut it either.

This again and again.

I was going to start a thread entitled "Does the concept of the capsuleer hurt an otherwise compelling sci-fi universe?", but here we have it.

There are plenty of plot devices that could get around having the pod. We could just have been generic space ship captains, with the pod just being an escape pod instead. And the cloning lore can be modified to fit standard mortals.

The issue is that we can't play what we want to play in the EVE universe. We have to play what we want to play within set boundaries by CCP.

[Saxon Hawke]

I think both styles of RP are equally valid. As an example, let's look at real-life soldiers who go to war. They see (and sometimes do) unspeakable things. For a time they live a life that is completely foreign and unimaginable to those who have never been through it. And then they come home.

For some soldiers it's as if nothing ever happened. They pick up where they left off and life resumes. These would be the pod pilots who return planetside as often as possible and spend time with "the little people."

For others there is no going back. Even if they return physically, they are still there in their minds. Some find that they cannot adjust and become troubled and anti-social. Others return to the military and resume the combat life.

Saxon is the type to go back home. But there are risks involved in doing so. A small group of conspirators and I did a collaborative storyline a while back where Saxon's home was destroyed and he was kidnapped. Fortunately, he escaped, and his RP has changed to reflect a more weary and cautious personality on his part.