Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Aria Jenneth]

Dear CCP.

Ignore anyone and everyone in this forum and anywhere else. Keep on doing what you want to do. I'm happy with any content, and thankful for any effort.

False dichotomy. I don't think anyone here wants CCP to stop producing content. We just have opinions on making that content better.

Authors who get nothing but sycophantic approval from their readers often turn into really horrible writers (looking at your stuff, David Weber).

Similarly, we've seen CCP do some truly unintelligent stuff when they got too high on themselves.

That said, if you want to start a CCP appreciation thread, I won't be shitting on them in it. 

I, too, agree with Vikarion.

In general, I'm pretty "Okay, sounds interesting," with most stuff CCP is and has been up to, with the glaring exceptions of (1) Tony G, whom I have come to kind of loathe, but who no longer works for CCP, and (2) malign neglect.

I reserve my right to engage in constructive criticism. In this case, my complaint is over things done long ago by that same villainous, wicked, departed Tony G; the reason for the grumble is to hopefully highlight the long-running issues he created and discourage similar premature curtain-lifting in the future.

[Anskek]

Dear CCP.

Ignore anyone and everyone in this forum and anywhere else. Keep on doing what you want to do. I'm happy with any content, and thankful for any effort.

Not empty quoting.

[Esna Pitoojee]

Dear CCP.

Ignore anyone and everyone in this forum and anywhere else. Keep on doing what you want to do. I'm happy with any content, and thankful for any effort.

False dichotomy. I don't think anyone here wants CCP to stop producing content. We just have opinions on making that content better.

Authors who get nothing but sycophantic approval from their readers often turn into really horrible writers (looking at your stuff, David Weber).

Similarly, we've seen CCP do some truly unintelligent stuff when they got too high on themselves.

That said, if you want to start a CCP appreciation thread, I won't be shitting on them in it. 

This so hard.

We're not complaining because we hate CCP and never want them to do anything.

We're complaining because we're terrified that CCP is writing themselves into even more destructive situations in the long term, and we legitimately want them to succeed.

[Aria Jenneth]

Being happy with whatever we receive seems about as helpful as being impossible to please.

[Anskek]

That may work for you. But it does not have to work for others. This is the first time CCP has dedicated time to lore in a while. So what you'd rather get nothing? If so then I feel bad for you. But again that doesn't mean the rest of us are less for enjoying the content.

[Gwen Ikiryo]

That may work for you. But it does not have to work for others. This is the first time CCP has dedicated time to lore in a while. So what you'd rather get nothing? If so then I feel bad for you. But again that doesn't mean the rest of us are less for enjoying the content.

I don't think anyone is saying CCPs lore output at the moment is terrible, though it's not quite to my taste. But giving a bit of constructive critism is probably more about creating an environment where quality is still regarded as important and writers stay diligent then it is about saying, "You're doing it wrong, you're terrible." People who do nothing but say things like that obviously aren't going to help, but respectfully saying, "I like this, I like this, but this could be a bit better..." Doesn't do any harm. It doesn't have to be a black and white situation where the only reaction to something you don't like is to heckle the content creators, and insult the people who are enjoying it the way it is.

And I don't really follow your logic in regard to saying, "So you'd rather get nothing?" Like... That doesn't seem like a super healthy attitude. I'm not a begger holding a bowl at CCP's table who just should be happy with whatever they get. I'm a paying customer - I'm giving them money to provide a fun experience for me. They aren't the only game in town. If they stop making the stuff I like, I'm not gonna sit and the corner and cry about how I only have myself to blame, I'm going to go play something else.

The impetus is on them.

[Vikarion]

That may work for you. But it does not have to work for others. This is the first time CCP has dedicated time to lore in a while. So what you'd rather get nothing? If so then I feel bad for you. But again that doesn't mean the rest of us are less for enjoying the content.

I remember playing games as a child, like monopoly. At that point, I had a certain tendency to want everything to go my way, or I wouldn't play.

I grew out of that by age 9.

If you are arguing that that's the bargain we have to take, well, forgive me for thinking that CCP is more mature than that, or, at least, should be more mature than that.

And I think they are. I rather like the current drifters storyline, for example. I don't want them to drop it. That doesn't mean I don't have criticisms of the wider depiction of their universe.

But, disregarding your attempted enforcement of an all-or-nothing view, I can agree with some things, and roll my eyes at others.

[Vizage]

Being happy with whatever we receive seems about as helpful as being impossible to please.

You're conflating being happy with what we receive and being happy that we are receiving something.

[Lyn Farel]

So, everything is fine then, everyone is happy to receive something, right ?

[Anskek]

So, everything is fine then, everyone is happy to receive something, right ?

Personally, after such a long lore drought? Hell yes.

[Tabor Murn]

So, everything is fine then, everyone is happy to receive something, right ?

Personally, after such a long lore drought? Hell yes.

That was pretty much the point I was trying to make. The last time they started caring about lore and giving us new content, people complained so loudly about how the events were run and how their factions were being treated it's no wonder that CCP stopped. Now that CCP is starting to do this again, the same complaints seem to be popping up. Just because we pay to play in it, doesn't change the fact that it's CCP's sandbox. Personally I'd rather have news and events about stuff I don't care about, or events that go poorly for my faction, than a static game world.

[Lyn Farel]

There is time and place for constructive criticism. The good time and place can also turn into valuable feedback for them.

[Silas Vitalia]

That was pretty much the point I was trying to make. The last time they started caring about lore and giving us new content, people complained so loudly about how the events were run and how their factions were being treated it's no wonder that CCP stopped. Now that CCP is starting to do this again, the same complaints seem to be popping up. Just because we pay to play in it, doesn't change the fact that it's CCP's sandbox. Personally I'd rather have news and events about stuff I don't care about, or events that go poorly for my faction, than a static game world.

Just a counterpoint, most people don't complain about those things, the general playerbase consensus has fun with a lot of the events (except the ones that are run poorly. Most people have fun, and I don't think CCP cares what a few lore people think tbh).

Now then,

The company has run quite excellent and memorable story lines and events many times in the past... along with probably an equal number of shit shows;

we can probably all agree they are both capable of, and guilty of, either in equal measure at any time.


The good doesn't outweigh the bad nor the bad the good (thanks, Stannis).  I try to judge each on their own merits, if I have my own (irrelevant) personal high standards it is because I know they have talented people who I've seen quite excellent work from, both in plot, game designs, artwork, music, live events, etc.


Now, not having insider knowledge as to the comings and goings of artists and writers and devs, I've drawn my own conclusions about story and art direction over the last say 5 years or so.   

There was a 'flip' in the aesthetics of the entire IP at some point, from old Eve to new Eve and I can't quite pin it down.  It could just be as simple as one artist leaving and another one having to do more ships that have the same flavor.

Some people like Pepsi, some people like Coke *shrug*  I won't tell you to like Pepsi, don't tell me to be happy for getting any soda at all. 

Long as we keep our grumblings (and fawning) reasonable and polite, and maybe we avoid threads we don't care to debate in, everyone will probably be much, much happier.


I'll try not to go to a 'drifter ships look awesome' thread and be mean, let people who love zombie jamyl maybe stay out of 'facedesk amarr plot' threads.  everyone wins! Big internet, big backstage, plenty of room.

And I do mean that, part of taking one's own advice, I don't need to jump into threads I disagree with just to disagree. Heard loud and clear.

[Vikarion]

Again, I don't think it's exactly fair to say "be happy with whatever you get, 'cause it's better than nothing." If that's the attitude CCP takes in regards to players, it's incredibly immature.

To demonstrate this, imagine if CCP was another RPer. Take the Caldari Prime event. If you showed up to an event in which another RPer god-moded the entire event against what was actually happening, and ret-conned what happened in their write-up of the event, you'd probably be just a tad inclined to complain.

And if they then said "oh, well, then I won't RP again", you'd not be very impressed with their attitude, I think.

I'm interested in the storyline. I want to see what happens with the Drifters. But it's legitimate to think that things could be improved, and if CCP takes partial disagreement with them about something as a reason to stop doing anything, well, that's CCP's fault.

[Silas Vitalia]

I think I'd like to sometimes see less of the plot railroad tracks and more spurs for the players, if that makes any sense. Don't know if that's possible with current climate though.

It does require writing quite a bit more to handle multiple outcomes or story branches.

So there's a difference in between say, on the one hand drifter flavored incursion style live events and different plotz maybe all leading to 'x' game feature with some wiggle room on getting to that train track, (btw scanning the observatories for the jove logs was very clever way to involve people on their part)

vs Caldari Prime 'this is happening regardless but we'll sell it like you effect the outcome'


One makes you collectively feel like you were involved (even if slightly) in an outcome, one makes you feel like you don't matter (as a player).