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[Louella Dougans]

does this have anything to do with the fanfest cosplay thing ?

[Lyn Farel]

Well, if people can't see how this breaks the first rule of RP between OOC and IC, and how it also completely and utterly destroys the 4th wall in the process... Who am I to tell ?

CCP integrates FF ICly as a Symposium held in New Eden, making players - and not their characters - part of what happens ICly in New Eden.

You're a bit behind the times: Fanfest has had an ingame analogue in the lore for a number of years. Around when we started getting ingame apparel for it, in fact. You should look up the "Starlet Scarlet" article on evelopedia.

As a roleplayer I'm struggling to see where there's a problem with this idea, honestly.

I may have missed something but it never really turned into a big 4th wall fuss on the IGS and everywhere else either... Or, it was really diffuse not to be noticed.

Personally...

I sent a private message to the individual(s) in question, thanking them for their interest in RP and introducing OOC self. I then went on to offer some advice, answer some basic questions and encourage them to not get discouraged or disheartened if it takes some getting used to.

As an experienced role-player, I'd rather offer advice and assistance to those wanting to join the activity than storm away frustrated or angry because I don't think they're very good at it or "they'redoinitwrong."

If you are referring to Max Singularity, he seems like a good and honest fellow, and his cosplay thing was rather nice.

Well ICly he may be currently shooting himself in the foot with all the heretical talk, which makes me grin because it's always the kind of things with new RPers that burns them in the first week, it not less...

[Leopold Caine]

I think you're being a bit too nitpicky there, Lyn.

Given my economic situation and the price of an airline ticket, I'll probably never go to fanfest so I have every reason to be envious of people who can and profit in their RP from it due to their econo-geographic situation, but come on.

Internet spaceships are srs bznss, but I don't think this is some kind of a slippery slope that would break and banalize all EVE RP. I see fourth-wall-breaking RP in Summit on a weekly basis and that doesn't break the system, immersion or the concept.

[Saede Riordan]

I think you're being a bit too nitpicky there, Lyn.

Given my economic situation and the price of an airline ticket, I'll probably never go to fanfest so I have every reason to be envious of people who can and profit in their RP from it due to their econo-geographic situation, but come on.

Internet spaceships are srs bznss, but I don't think this is some kind of a slippery slope that would break and banalize all EVE RP. I see fourth-wall-breaking RP in Summit on a weekly basis and that doesn't break the system, immersion or the concept.

^^^ This

To add onto it, there's nothing stopping anyone who didn't go to FF from buying the shirt off the market and saying they went, if they really want their characters to have access to things they might have learned ICly and don't want your character to have just streamed the conference.

The only issue I have with it, and I'm not sure if this is part of what Lyn is trying to hint at or not, but CCP has a bad habit of revealing tons of lore information to us as players that our characters can't know, thus severely limiting RP based off it. One obvious example is that everyone OOCly knows that Jamyl has The Other in her head. We all know it, and yet there's no way for our character to find that out.

[Lyn Farel]

I may or may not have the economic situation to go there and afford the trip. I think I could actually, but that's a question of priorities. If you think the main motivator for me to open that thread was mere jealousy... :/

Really, I don't really want to go to FF in the first place. There sure might be nice things but i'm by nature completely anti social and too much people annoy me most than anything, especially those I don't share much with. I know how people are, even among geeks and nerds, and it's always about beer, drinking and shit like that, which I loathe to no end, so believe me, i'm not really into going into FF... Especially since i'm not a big fan of the main eve mentality and the crowd you can find at times. Which is, well, not something especially proper to Eve.

I also already made clear ICly that my character didn't go, mostly because I assumed that I wasn't there so it would have been kind of rude to say otherwise even if Lyn would really have attended to something like that, especially SoCT, but also because I didn't see it that way : to me it was like any other piece of news about the universe that we don't interact with, and completely separated ICly from what happens OOCly in Iceland... As it should be...

So, yes, I realize that I shouldn't probably have posted my last post of mine and that it's actually me making a fuss over it. I also know that FF is not really different to players meeting for a drink IRL somewhere or whatever. I guess I was just really annoyed, more and more, to see that confusion between an OOC meeting and an IC thing. It's like saying every time people go over a drink IRL that suddenly it also has to be some kind of IC symposium or whatever... Why ? Why not leaving it at OOC ? Why do we have to tie both together at all costs at the expense of serious 4th wall breakdown ?

[Aria Jenneth]

Why ? Why not leaving it at OOC ? Why do we have to tie both together at all costs at the expense of serious 4th wall breakdown ?

They don't have to.

It's fun, and the consequences are minimal for the vast majority, so they do it. Those who enjoy it, play off it. Those who don't, ignore it.

I mostly just let it pass unremarked.

[Jace]

It seems to me that it is pretty safe to say this is a non-issue. It has been this way for as long as I can remember and it has never been a problem. There is no need to try to make it one.

[Louella Dougans]

I'm still unclear on what the issue is ?

Is it the news article things/ Scope news videos, that say that e.g. Makoto and Morwen attended the "Emergent Threats Symposium", because both of the players behind those characters were at Fanfest ?
I don't know if they've even met IC ? And CCP has effectively GM'd the universe to say that they have met ? and discussed Stuff ? Regardless of what the players might actually have thought/wanted ?

And people go along with it ?

Or, is it something else ?

[Lyn Farel]

The issue is CCP linking OOC events (FF) to IC events (Symposium), and then players playing along by throwing OOC photos, references, etc, in the mix and mixing up everything together.

Well, apparently, this is going nowhere, so you may close the thread before it starts to get stupid (if it hasn't already).

[Jev North]

Our fourth wall is a tattered, piss-soaked and graffiti-covered old thing anyway. I'm perfectly fine with it occasionally being broken in a forthright and fun manner.

[Makoto Priano]

To me it was pretty obvious that it was wrong at first, and expected to see people acknowledging it or agreeing with it to some extent, but apparently I was completely wrong, which I get now. Fine then, I still am uneasy about it and find it inherently conned, but I can see your points and what good it brought you.

My view is that there are two untouchable holies in RP: canon and consent. So long as neither is violated, then it's all a matter of personal taste.

I was well prepared to wave off Mak's in-game absence as "consultations at corporate," but given her interests the SOCT symposium made a lot of sense, and it's played out in entertaining ways. Is it the most serious business RP? Nope! But we RP to have fun, however we define that, and I'm havin' it.

Soooo.

Your mileage may vary.

[Jace]

My view is that there are two untouchable holies in RP: canon and consent. So long as neither is violated, then it's all a matter of personal taste.

This could sum up so many threads.

[Arnulf Ogunkoya]

As a general rule I tend to find IC equivalents for my out of game actions to help explain what I am doing when I'm not in pod.  They aren't always exact, but it can be a nice catalyst for figuring out what the world my character lives in is like.

For example, when I go to visit my mother around Xmas Arnulf is attending a clan ceremony. My day job is him wading through the paperwork needed to administer his properties & the people that run them. If I go to the cinema then he has seen the latest holo release, and so on.

It's one of the advantages of a game in a technological setting where IC equivalents to modern stuff is fairly easy to come up with.

So a symposium where people who would otherwise be murdering each other get to talk for a while. Can't see the problem myself.

[Havohej]

As much as most of this community lauds the concept of a "Separation between IC/OOC", for a person to bemoan an officially sanctioned event in which doing the exact opposite is the order of the day is hardly something that should be construed as a YDIW.  I see nothing in the OP of this thread that falls afoul of the Rules or the FAQ.  I do, however, think that some posters may have taken the OP as such and, having taken the OP as a personal affront, responded in ways bordering on inappropriate.  As all useful discussion seems to have been exhausted, I'm going to grant the requested thread lock.  Because there was a decent bit of civil conversation here, I'm not going to the Katacombs with it.

Hopefully, this analogy, in all its absurdity, will shine a light on how silly some of this has been:

Billy:  Stop kicking that puppy, Johnny!  Kicking puppies is socially unacceptable!  You'll be a pariah to the Community!
Johnny:  But Billy, it's FF!  Everyone knows that FF is Kick-a-Puppy Week!
Billy:  Oh!  I forgot!  How silly of me!
Billy & Johnny:  *kicking puppies together all week long*
Community:  *waving hands all week, and into the foreseeable future whenever Annual Kick-a-Puppy Week is mentioned*