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[Gwen Ikiryo]

Well, how about this, then: I'll post the same thread on both the IGS and Eve Fiction, and see which one is killed. After all, like I keep saying, there's nothing concrete about the IGS being strictly an in-universe forum. By doing this, it'll force them to make a judgement as to if it is or if it is not, and where these things belong by extension.

Because right now, it is vague.

Except that, according to Esna, this was already done when the game first started, and it ended with the current convention: An in-character, in-universe message board.

Well, I think that's peculiar, so I don't see any harm in challenging it and seeing what happens. Stuff shouldn't be sacred just because it's been that way for ages.

[Mizhara]

Agreed, tradition for tradition's sake is not a good thing. However, this is not a matter of "it's just been that way for ages". It's a matter of breaking and frankly ruining a working and unique thing in favor of turning it into something mediocre no one needs. The fiction forum would not be a problematic place to do this, as it is not explicitly IC in nature and there it would not break the immersion of the users.

[Gwen Ikiryo]

Well, what if I were to just post it in Eve Fiction, then? Because I'm willing to bet CCP's moderation team doesn't have nearly the deep player-constructed understanding of what the IGS is, and would end up moving it anyway purely on the base logic of "ROLEPLAY THREAD=GOES TO IGS".

[Samira Kernher]

Well, how about this, then: I'll post the same thread on both the IGS and Eve Fiction, and see which one is killed. After all, like I keep saying, there's nothing concrete about the IGS being strictly an in-universe forum. By doing this, it'll force them to make a judgement as to if it is or if it is not, and where these things belong by extension.

Because right now, it is vague.

Except that, according to Esna, this was already done when the game first started, and it ended with the current convention: An in-character, in-universe message board.

Well, I think that's peculiar, so I don't see any harm in challenging it and seeing what happens. Stuff shouldn't be sacred just because it's been that way for ages.

It should be sacred because it's better the way it is, and there's plenty of people who participate in it precisely because of the way it is who would be turned off if it became what you are talking about here.

[Louella Dougans]

i remember a thing, where someone made a post, and there was no indication that it was supposed to be anything other than what it was, i.e. a text-post on some kind of message system.

what happened next, was that someone else replied to the post, quoting the first few sentences and then typing something like

*character name interrupts the red-faced man's blustering commentary* "Actually you are wrong and this is why..."

which not only declared that the OP was some kind of video transmission (zero indication from the OP that that was the case), but also declared how the person commenting appeared in that video.

That sort of behaviour caused a bit of in ooc channels/forums (not necessarily this one), and I think that it kind of helped to bring to supremacy the notion that the IGS is a text-forum, and only a text-forum.

[Letos]

Hm, somehow I find it relieving that the IGS is irritating for others as well. Maybe some of you read my try to post something there. I quickly became uncomfortable continue writing for it. I really thought the thread would also be moved or closed. From your posts above I think I understood what the IGS really presently is. For me, it was an experiment, I guess. But I still don't see where the right place for cooperative storytelling is. Would it be the Fiction board then?

As for the IGS, I can understand that classical roleplay/storytelling threads would irritate players who are reading it with a purely in-character attitude. That's new to me. Personally, I'm irritated by posts which are not clearly framed as in-character by some storytelling (be it only one line, saying the character is going to say something). I'm just not used to this kind of missing ooc/ic flag. Especially since some characters are actually trolling like you find it in hundreds of real life boards. I guess that's the reason why I did not feel very comfortable trying to get some roleplay going there. But well, lesson learned

[Lyn Farel]

If people start a random collaborative RP thread in the Fiction part of the Eve forum, then what will happen ? Some people will enter and play the game, which is fine and good, and then other people will also enter and start trolling or posting purely OOC (non RP) irrelevant stuff and polluting the thread to no end.

There is absolutely no rule in the Fiction forum that separates RP from non RP. You could post that collaborative fiction RP anywhere in the forum, like in the general discussion, that it would be the exact same thing. The Fiction forum, be it logical or not to use for such purposes, just doesn't have the right and proper rules and frame for players to differentiate a non RP post about fiction and a collaborative writing effort, which is RP.

[Saede Riordan]

Any way you guys cut it, the EVE forums are not really proactively moderated enough to allow this sort of freeform collaborative RP to take place. Someone will always come in and troll, be it IC or OOC. CCP just doesn't have the resources to allow that sort of fiction environment to work.

Now, it could work here. I could see people doing that in the fiction section of this forum, and having it go fine.

[Mizhara]

I don't see it getting any less trolled on the IGS. It'd just be IC trolled, which could in turn be rather funny. Hell, go for it. If it's not moved from the IGS, it'll be a source of endless amusement as it's dealt with IC.

[Louella Dougans]

probably more than 90% of the posting on the IGS is just trolling, because timezones and areas of activity are such that very few RPers actually have any ability to interact with each other with spaceships, instead of foruming at people, or typing in the chat channels ingame.

like, I get the impression that PIE and Ushra'khan's timezones don't overlap all that much, so while they post in each other's direction quite a bit, they don't encounter each other directly in space much.

Or say, the TS-F people. When the Sansha live events were happening, I encountered them on a number of occasions. But outside of those occasions, I'm in Imperial space, they're off in Stain or Syndicate, and so, RP interaction never really occurred beyond occasional typing at each other.

And quite a few people have moved to the proverbial back of beyond, such as 0.0 coalition stuff, or wormholes, so really whatever they type on the IGS is of meaning only to them. Why should anyone in the bleak lands warzone care what someone off in guristas space has to say about amarr-minmatar politics ?

it's all just :words: at each other.

Like, there is literally no reason to type a damn thing on the IGS, except to :words: at someone, for your own grandstanding purposes, because there's no overlap in areas and times of activity, so what is the point ?

[Silas Vitalia]

Play by play sequential rp posts have been a thing on eve fiction for years, because you can read them like a story without participating just fine. 

They don't really work on igs, or at least I've not seen them succeed.

[Xiaohui]

The thing with roleplay is that it's an interactive story. IGS is really nothing more than an IC chat, where you chat in character, apparently. Although this isn't expressly written by anyone, and there's little rules regarding it - in fact the forum description says "roleplay" and "in character". To me, as someone who has roleplayed in this manner for over a decade, this involves describing your character's thoughts, feelings, motivations, as well as their actions and dialogue. What's considered IC and OOC on the IGS is indeed weird. Posting what your character is thinking/doing in their captain's quarters while conversing with other capsuleers is somehow "OOC".

Posting on the IGS is inviting character interaction. Posting on EVE Fiction invites player discussion.

If you go into IGS trying to interactive story - like you would in every. other. roleplay/IC. forum. ever. - you're gonna have a bad time, as I learned the hard way. It was actually rather insulting, after I spent all this work designing my character in the client, creating a unique backstory for her, a set of motivations and character flaws to explore, and then posted what my character was doing, thinking, and the message (scientific article) she opened for discussion with other characters - to have it moved to "fiction" and told that I wasn't roleplaying my character... it's like they were saying "everything you wrote is fake and invalid and doesn't actually exist." And then to be told that I wasn't actually roleplaying, and to read some IGS threads with their half-trolly antagonism and not-quite-complete-paragraphs, was really grating. Thus, my slightly less-than-polite posts to users who responded to my thread.

Elitism, a "cool kids" clique, the idea of "the right way" and "the wrong way", and resistance to change are prevalent in any RP culture. Without the mods stepping in and policing it with a clear concept of what RP, or at least what EVE RP is, the culture will remain as it is and stubbornly resistant to change and improvement.

I'm not suggesting that it should or does need to be changed. But it would be interesting, after all, to start a play-by-post, traditional RP, and get some quick replies/interactions with other characters in the same fashion, and see if CCP moves it or locks it.

[Lyn Farel]

@Xiaohui : welcome in Eve, it's always like that. Nobody tells you anything first, trial by error, you learn by getting shot down every time, that a lot of people actually seem to enjoy. Courtesy of CCP and all.

Any way you guys cut it, the EVE forums are not really proactively moderated enough to allow this sort of freeform collaborative RP to take place. Someone will always come in and troll, be it IC or OOC. CCP just doesn't have the resources to allow that sort of fiction environment to work.

Now, it could work here. I could see people doing that in the fiction section of this forum, and having it go fine.

They do it for the IGS. Not saying they do it as much as we want it, but the IGS still seems to work decently enough for a lot of people to have fun in it no ? Why would it be so different for a collaborative fiction ?

Then of course you are right, the same way people asked for a private IGS right here, the reasons for such a thing are exactly similar. Since the policy of backstage seems to have changed from "no IC stuff on the forum" to "IC stuff on the forum planned, or at least on a sub domain", I guess it's right there.

I don't see it getting any less trolled on the IGS. It'd just be IC trolled, which could in turn be rather funny. Hell, go for it. If it's not moved from the IGS, it'll be a source of endless amusement as it's dealt with IC.

Yes indeed.

Play by play sequential rp posts have been a thing on eve fiction for years, because you can read them like a story without participating just fine. 

They don't really work on igs, or at least I've not seen them succeed.

There actually is some of those on the fiction board ? And they are allowed or work fine ?

[Rin Kaelestria]

To be honest, I feel that forum usage for an IC venue is a very odd beast of it's own and it is something I could never really get into. The idea of creating my character, posting on a forums as to what they're doing, and then someone else taking over their story with their own posts bugs me. In my mind, no one but myself plays my own RP characters (regardless of what MMO I'm playing in at the time) the way I feel they should be.

That being said, I'm glad the IGS isn't the typical IC MMO forums. As messy as it can be and often is, it'd be a far larger mess if it were otherwise. Just my two isks there.

[Lyn Farel]

Usually that kind of RP does not involve players playing or using characters of other users. It's not so much different from IC venues ingame, actually, with short posts overall, unless some character starts to get an endless internal monologue or whatnot...

You start to write longer posts by borrowing other characters at times when you know the people you play with pretty well. I did that once of twice, not dealing with 10 lines posts but rather whole pages written by each like you describe it, and it was something else altogether.