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[Mizhara]

So, the Thousand to One story is now pretty old. Four-five years old, ran for a while and ended with a boom. It was a decent bit of RP and the consequences have been felt years after, for a few characters. I quite enjoy that kind of thing. It's a testament to the Eve RP community that character actions have consequences and shape interaction for years to come. Frankly, I love it.

What's less enjoyable is now finding things that have only ever been mentioned in OOC channels or TS on the IGS, along with some flat out lies. Are we really stooping to this shit now? Taking OOC chat and using it IC? Making up lies about other characters is fine. It makes your character a liar, sure, but that's a valid trait to have as a character. We know there were no Republic citizens dying or being sold into slavery, and pretty much everything that went on during the storyline has been made public.

What's not fine is taking Havo's decision to OOC make some isk from the story, in lieu of a "free slaves" button, and dumping them on the market, and pushing that into the IGS as if that was an IC act. I personally don't like it, as I treat the market IC as far as I can, but it's largely up to the person doing something to decide whether it's something his or her character is doing. What I do know for an absolute fact is that it was never done or even spoken of IC. Every slave that didn't die was released. It just happened via the "sell" button instead of the "trash" button, however much I personally don't like that being done.

The only discussion of this that has ever happened was in OOC channels, and yet here we are with it being plastered on the IGS.

It's one thing to base IC hostility on OOC grudges, or OOC grudges on IC grudges. It happens. It's hardly ideal, but we all know it's there. It's hard to avoid and just a fact of life we have to deal with. Letting it turn into something like this is just flat out disgraceful as far as I am concerned and should be discouraged.

Have your characters lie and make shit up, that's fine. It's something I don't enjoy neither doing nor seeing much of, because it tends to lead down to really shitty RP down the line, but it's something that'd happen IC. Let's just try to keep OOC in OOC, shall we?

[Samira Kernher]

Selling them OOC amounts to selling them IC, in my books. No getting around that.

That being said, using things IC that were only ever mentioned in OOC chat channels is bullshit, and very bad RP. Expected for EVE players, and thus one should avoid saying things in OOC that people who fail to acknowledge IC/OOC separation will exploit, but still bullshit.

[Mizhara]

Generally, I would agree with the first there Samira. Still, the player did it with OOC in mind, knowing it's something he'd never do IC and the storyline was concluded with them being freed. This is one of those things where game mechanics and IC didn't mesh and a decision was made. I'd take it IC too, but I don't feel it's right to impose this on other players unless it directly affects me somehow. In this case, all it affected was a guy's wallet.

[Silas Vitalia]

*edit*

withdrawn now I have more infos.

[Louella Dougans]

what's this about ?

[Saede Riordan]

what's this about ?

this, lol.

[DeadRow]

If there is no screenshot of the transaction then just call it out for what is it, rumour and heresy. If there is proof of this transaction then it is just something you'll have to deal with.

[Saede Riordan]

best way to free slaves IMO? Sit on them, forever. If you trash them, someone will say "Oh you killed them" if you sell them "Oh you sold them" best to just not do anything and stick them in station until CCP makes a 'free slaves' button.

[youcancallmesir]

If there is no screenshot of the transaction then just call it out for what is it, rumour and heresy. If there is proof of this transaction then it is just something you'll have to deal with.

So much this.

This is the reason Naupy had to resort to blowing up that freighter. Unless it's verifiable in-game, it turns into a game of bang-bang-you're-dead versus no-i'm-not-you-missed. Call the lie for such and let it become its own mini-content.

That said, I do agree strongly with the point you're making, Miz. It sounds like there was a dire need for OOC clarification before anyone's personal storyline got railroaded in a direction they didn't want. Is this endemic?

If you've got a problem, yo, I'll solve it. Check out my beat while the DJ revolves it.

[Havohej]

If you've got a problem, yo, I'll solve it. Check out my beat while the DJ revolves it.

I don't even...

Anyway, my post in the thread is the end of it, far as I'm concerned.

OOC (obviously, as this is an OOC forum), as many slaves as would fit into a Fenrir (which we learned by hauling the 1 million units of the ingame item "Slaves" out of Amarr) were "destroyed" with a forged km in which Zuzanna in a Megathron "killed" them.  The 1 million units of the ingame item "Slaves" were traded to an alt and sold to NPC buy orders.  No way in hell was I going to just welp a freighter for RP, nor was I going to "sit on them forever".  Expecting that CCP would never give us a means of turning the ingame item "Slaves" into the ingame item "Freed Slaves", which they still haven't done, I'm confident I did what was right for our tiny corp at that time.

Some people are rich enough to throw a billion ISK at an RP adventure (buying 1 million units of the ingame item "Slaves", for example).  We were not one of those groups.

I challenge anyone to identify what alt they were traded to and produce a screenshot of the transaction in any way shape or form that could link the sale of these ingame items into NPC buy orders to Havohej or Du'uma Fiisi in any way, shape or form.  No such link exists.  The entire thing was handled OOCly for OOC purposes in the same way that Angel RPers who grew up in eve shooting Angel rats in highsec L4 missions deal with their PvE in an OOC capacity.

In effect, what I am saying is: In character, not a single slave was sold or even traded away freely by Havo or Du'uma Fiisi.  Deal with it.

Whatever behind-the-scenes RP took place inside the Amarr community at that time or subsequently related to these slaves or Jamyl's emancipation of 9th generation slaves, or whatever else... we weren't privy to and have/had nothing to do with.

[Silas Vitalia]

RP BATTLE STATIONS!      RP BATTLE STATIONS!      RP BATTLE STATIONS!
This sounds like a job for in-game name-n-shamin', and pew pewing for the casting of aspersions?

[Mizhara]

Any reason there'd be to do the pew pewing would be OOC motivated as far as I'm concerned and wouldn't really make a difference anyhow. I am largely raising this issue to ensure there's clarity on the matter and to push the IC/OOC barrier back into view. This is completely unacceptable behaviour to me and I suspect for quite a few others out there. A reminder of this is apparently needed once in a while.

[Silas Vitalia]

Looks like IC accusations on IGS to me? That can warrant a few poddings in most cases?

[Morwen Lagann]

It's not the first time this sort of thing has happened, nor will it be the last.  It is, however, the first time that this particular group of people tried escalating to posting on the IGS while doing it, though. To my knowledge, anyway.

I'm with Samira and Miz on this one (sort of, mixed together). Anything and everything you do ingame can and likely will have some sort of IC equivalent, but beyond the fact that none of it was ever mentioned to anyone IC and the first time it ever came up in discussion was recently in OOC, there's also the fact that for any given market transaction, only two people ever know who's who in the transaction: the buyer, and the seller. Nobody else knows or can verify anything unless someone goes sharing market data, so unless we're going to see some clearly-unmodified photographic evidence or exported wallet data, this is nothing more than (imo) yet another example of the kind of things that destroy RP, because why talk about anything with anyone if they're just going to pull down their pants and drop a heaping turd like that on the forums, right?

Personally, I would have trashed the items ("get it out of my hangar" or "remove it from the interstellar economy") or sat on them. But given the ISK value in a million units of slaves back then, it's not something I'd hold against Havo regardless of what he says happened to them. (Call it livestock insurance or something, hurr hurr hurr.)

[Silas Vitalia]

It's an interesting debate for future discussin', IC in game actions.

The IC/OOC violation was clear cut so not talking about that.

Talking about in general  x character selling slaves due to needin' isk, is it the kind of thing to be hand-waved?

I think it can go both waves.  Say they were freed, get the cash because it was a lot of money, got no issues with that. 

Or go method actor and hold em for future RP.


Saying this as someone who has purchased and hauled around / pew pewed 1 million units of slaves for various RP bidness .  Gave those ston idiots like 650k people to get off IGS for a few weeks of blissful silence.